23/08 Low Speed Derailment at Tonbridge

[alistairlees]

I made out roughly 30 carriages worth of 465/466 in there, along with a Soutthern 377/3. I may be miscounting slightly - it's a little tricky on a zoomed-in photo!

If it is 30 carriages though, then that's 3 full sets out of the Tunbridge Wells - London diagrams given they normally run as 465+465+466.

Happy to be corrected. I was only casually looking. It certainly didn’t look full though.

 

[KingJ]

The Redhill to Tonbridge line will be closed this evening to allow the rerailing work to take place. The last trains will be the 18:00 Redhill to Tonbridge and the 19:01 Tonbridge to Redhill, with buses thereafter.

Services will be terminating early this evening between Redhill & Tonbridge, so the overnight works can take place.

The last services will be:
18:00 Redhill - Tonbridge
19:01 Tonbridge - Redhill.
Rail replacement buses will be in operation.

Edit: Network Rail have also posted up a close-up photo of the derailment on Twitter.

 

[trainmania100]

There was a crane planned for tonight, apparently this is now cancelled according to a groups io chat

 

[2HAP]

Network Rail have tweeted that the jacks are sinking into the ground rather than lifting the train. Recovery delayed until tomorrow now.

Will Southern be billed for all the time lost by Southeastern due to cancellations?

 

[JN114]

Network Rail have tweeted that the jacks are sinking into the ground rather than lifting the train. Recovery delayed until tomorrow now.

Will Southern be billed for all the time lost by Southeastern due to cancellations?

Standard delay attribution payment regimes will apply, as with any disruptive incident.

 

[FlippyFF]

Network Rail have tweeted that the jacks are sinking into the ground rather than lifting the train. Recovery delayed until tomorrow now.

Will Southern be billed for all the time lost by Southeastern due to cancellations?

Aren't some Southern services on this line/route crewed by Southeastern staff? Was that the case here?

Simon

 

[Surreytraveller]

Aren't some Southern services on this line/route crewed by Southeastern staff? Was that the case here?

Simon

Doesn't matter who directly employs which driver. Its a Southern movement which was derailed, and it makes no difference whether the driver was employed by Southern, SouthEastern or Tesco

 

[Meerkat]

Doesn't matter who directly employs which driver. Its a Southern movement which was derailed, and it makes no difference whether the driver was employed by Southern, SouthEastern or Tesco

I think the RAIB might be interested if it was being driven by someone from Tesco!!

 

[2HAP]

A simple yes or no to my question would suffice. I have no idea what the "standard delay attribution regime" is. I would suspect the majority of people not employed in the rail industry are in the same position.

 

[tiptoptaff]

A simple yes or no to my question would suffice. I have no idea what the "standard delay attribution regime" is. I would suspect the majority of people not employed in the rail industry are in the same position.

In layman's terms, NR will fine Southern for all the minutes of delay they caused, and Southeastern will claim from NR for all the minutes of delay they experienced

 

[Surreytraveller]

A simple yes or no to my question would suffice. I have no idea what the "standard delay attribution regime" is. I would suspect the majority of people not employed in the rail industry are in the same position.

I suspect the majority of people within the rail industry also have no idea. The blame just goes round the staff similar to pass the parcel, and whoever is holding the package when the music stops gets allocated the blame

 

[baz962]

I think the RAIB might be interested if it was being driven by someone from Tesco!!

Every little helps

 

[2HAP]

In layman's terms, NR will fine Southern for all the minutes of delay they caused, and Southeastern will claim from NR for all the minutes of delay they experienced

Many thanks, tiptoptaff, exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Many thanks, tiptoptaff, exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

No worries. There's also a similar internal fight, so Southern will argue with itself between departments who's budget the delay comes out of.

 

[Surreytraveller]

No worries. There's also a similar internal fight, so Southern will argue with itself between departments who's budget the delay comes out of.

And there are whole departments of staff within companies who are just paid to sit there and argue with each other via email

 

[tiptoptaff]

And there are whole departments of staff within companies who are just paid to sit there and argue with each other via email

Yep. One of the guys on my driver course was one of them before going driving, he loved it

 

[2HAP]

No worries. There's also a similar internal fight, so Southern will argue with itself between departments who's budget the delay comes out of.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say it will be the driver department that foots the bill for this one.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say it will be the driver department that foots the bill for this one.

I'd say so, they're unlikely to argue it!

 

[Nicks]

Hopefully, one advantage of the Government likely ending of the franchising regime is the ending of all this internal delay attribution merry go round. So incident happens, railway gets repaired, trains run again.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can we leave the delay attribution discussion here please as it is off-topic. If anyone wishes to continue it please take it to a new thread. Many thanks

 

[PG]

Can we leave the delay attribution discussion here please as it is off-topic. If anyone wishes to continue it please take it to a new thread. Many thanks

New thread started on delay attribution.

 

[DelW]

Does anyone have pics of a crane being used in a re rail ment like what'll happen at Tonbridge, from past incidents?

I don't suppose a 377 will need something on this scale, but here's an example (Carrbridge, 2010):

Carrbridge - RAILSCOT

RailScot, a history of Railways with an emphasis on Scottish Railways. Photographs, maps, news, queries and more.

www.railscot.co.uk

I wouldn't want to do that in today's wind either.

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder how long that will take to organise?

Can cranes be organised at such short notice - depends where they are located, and whether staff are available to operate them

Actually deciding to use the crane doesn't take long at all.However, it isn't like them olden days with a crane every 3 miles. it also isn't always as easy as using one crane thanks to modern lifting legislation. The difficulty is getting the crane from where it is based to the site along with the required men ( also considering their available hours) . The crane might have to come off an engineering site and with the bank holiday coming up that is going to be complicated!

Here are some details: https://www.volkerrail.co.uk/en/new...il-s-kirow-1200-crane-for-further-three-years & https://www.volkerrail.co.uk/en/plant/kirow-250-810-1200-rail-mounted-cranes

PS if you fancy buying an old one NR have 3 for sale: https://www.ontrackplant.com/news/network-rail-selling-cowans-sheldon-breakdown-cranes

Guess it's more than just the Balfour Beatty and colas cranes you see in engineering consists locally

It is the same type of crane and could easily be the same crane due on an engineering job this weekend.

I don't suppose a 377 will need something on this scale, but here's an example (Carrbridge, 2010):

Carrbridge - RAILSCOT

RailScot, a history of Railways with an emphasis on Scottish Railways. Photographs, maps, news, queries and more.

www.railscot.co.uk

I wouldn't want to do that in today's wind either.

That is a road crane mind. Did the quoted poster mean a rail crane

 

[2HAP]

The location of the derailment precludes use of a road crane. See my photos in post #5.

 

[DarloRich]

The location of the derailment precludes use of a road crane. See my photos in post #5.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a road crane

 

[Murray J]

73202 is now at Tonbridge after working 0Z99 from Stewart's land yesterday, according to a user on SE-gen 73202 is now on the front of the 377.

 

[rower40]

Dad, who attended countless derailments and more serious accidents over his railway career, always told me the best way to deal with a minor derailment is to pull the stock back the way it came off in the first place, packing and jacking as appropriate of course. A difficulty with electric traction is if the feeder for the unit to power itself is damaged and isolated. And in this case, as its a dead-end yard there's no way to get a diesel in to haul it back either.

That's what the crane is for - to lift an 08 and a translator vehicle into the sidings, to drag the derailed unit back.
This post may contain elements of untruth and wishful thinking.

 

[High Dyke]

Guessing a crane will be required to get it back on track

If only they had one at Ashford depot... Oh, hang on! It isn't like the old days. The railway doesn't always consider such requirements.

 

[swt_passenger]

If only they had one at Ashford depot... Oh, hang on! It isn't like the old days. The railway doesn't always consider such requirements.

It isn’t like the old days at all, you’re right. The reason there were breakdown cranes all over the place was because they had derailments practically on a weekly basis in every area. Thankfully operations are a bit more reliable nowadays, so having a breakdown train waiting in every local yard would be loads of costly redundant equipment...

 

[alistairlees]

It isn’t like the old days at all, you’re right. The reason there were breakdown cranes all over the place was because they had derailments practically on a weekly basis in every area. Thankfully operations are a bit more reliable nowadays, so having a breakdown train waiting in every local yard would be loads of costly redundant equipment...

Indeed. Short-wheel freight wagons were forever coming off badly-maintained track in yards. And heavy shunts were the cause of many accidents.