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25/6.25 kV electrification removed

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Heysham - Morecambe - Lancaster Green Ayre, an early experimental 6.6kV Midland scheme from 1908 that was converted from 25Hz to 50Hz in the 1950s for trials leading to wider mainline wiring. Heysham - Morecambe section remains unwired today, connected to the former LNWR Morecambe line while the Midland line to Lancaster was closed in 1966.

Edit: Apologies to @Agent_Squash for missing their previous reply mentioning this line.
Actually, it was a bit more extensive than described above

The line towards Leeds was electrified east of Green Ayre and beneath Skerton Bridge towards Ladies Walk, and from Green Ayre to Lancaster Castle; two platforms at Castle were electrified - 5 and 6 - and wires were removed after the electrification scheme was abandoned. Track from platform 6 was later removed, but platform 5 was re-electrified as part of the northern WCML scheme in the 1970s
 
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MarkyT

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Actually, it was a bit more extensive than described above

The line towards Leeds was electrified east of Green Ayre and beneath Skerton Bridge towards Ladies Walk, and from Green Ayre to Lancaster Castle; two platforms at Castle were electrified - 5 and 6 - and wires were removed after the electrification scheme was abandoned. Track from platform 6 was later removed, but platform 5 was re-electrified as part of the northern WCML scheme in the 1970s
Thanks for the additional detail. Did the Midland local trains for Morecambe and Heysham operated using the electric stock typically start from Castle, reversing at Green Ayre?
 

Ken H

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Thanks for the additional detail. Did the Midland local trains for Morecambe and Heysham operated using the electric stock typically start from Castle, reversing at Green Ayre?
Winter 1962 timetable here

Link goes to an image of a page of a London Midland region timetable.
 
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Thanks for the additional detail. Did the Midland local trains for Morecambe and Heysham operated using the electric stock typically start from Castle, reversing at Green Ayre?

A link to the Winter 1962 timetable has been provided at #123, but I too was surprised at the quick reversal at Green Ayre shown in it; from memory, trains always seemed to be to time, and the reversal seemed quite leisurely. Usually, the trains just comprised a single 3-car set, and as there wasn't an internal connection between the cabs the driver would have had to walk along the platform. The eastbound platform was used for the reversal of trains from Morecambe, and the westbound ones for those between Castle and Morecambe/Heysham

The railway bridge over the River Lune - Greyhound Bridge - together with a short section towards Morecambe now carries the northbound carriageway of the A6 trunk road. Is that unique? Have any other sections of de-electrified railways been converted into major roads?

Most of the de-electrified line between Castle and Green Ayre is now a public footpath, as is the route towards Morecambe/Heysham from approximately the north end of the Millennium Footbridge.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Hadfield - Sheffield/Tinsley/Wath
Harton colliery lines
Kearsley power station complex
Strictly speaking, Bury - Holcombe Brook which was experimentally fitted with OHE before conversion to third rail (and closed completely in 1951)

Don‘t forget Fairfield to Reddish Depot, the latter possibly being the only entire electric depot to be lost?
 

jfollows

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Don‘t forget Fairfield to Reddish Depot, the latter possibly being the only entire electric depot to be lost?
Not 25/6.25kV though!
I used it from Gorton (the other side of the triangle from Fairfield) for the depot open day in the early 1970s (9/9/73) for which EMU shuttles from Piccadilly were provided.
 
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Beebman

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A link to the Winter 1962 timetable has been provided at #123, but I too was surprised at the quick reversal at Green Ayre shown in it; from memory, trains always seemed to be to time, and the reversal seemed quite leisurely. Usually, the trains just comprised a single 3-car set, and as there wasn't an internal connection between the cabs the driver would have had to walk along the platform. The eastbound platform was used for the reversal of trains from Morecambe, and the westbound ones for those between Castle and Morecambe/Heysham

The railway bridge over the River Lune - Greyhound Bridge - together with a short section towards Morecambe now carries the northbound carriageway of the A6 trunk road. Is that unique? Have any other sections of de-electrified railways been converted into major roads?

Most of the de-electrified line between Castle and Green Ayre is now a public footpath, as is the route towards Morecambe/Heysham from approximately the north end of the Millennium Footbridge.
There's a public Facebook group with some good resources about the line:

The Lancaster to Morecambe and Heysham Electrics

You need to work backwards through about 3 years or so to find the best stuff but there's a few photos of EMUs in Lancaster Castle station with Morecambe as a destination as well as some track plans of Green Ayre and Morecambe showing the positions of electrification gantries.
 

HSTEd

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This is peripherally related, but my understanding is the 6.6kV 25Hz electrification system in Morecombe/Heysham was converted to 6.25kV/50Hz and operated as a testbed installation.

Why was this removed? Was the equipment simply worn out and unable to continue?
 

Ken H

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This is peripherally related, but my understanding is the 6.6kV 25Hz electrification system in Morecombe/Heysham was converted to 6.25kV/50Hz and operated as a testbed installation.

Why was this removed? Was the equipment simply worn out and unable to continue?
Lancashire council wanted the bridge over the river for a road to Morecambe. They offered BR a shedload of cash, so BR shut Wennington - Morecambe via Hornby and Caton instead of Wennington - Carnforth.
 

randyrippley

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This is peripherally related, but my understanding is the 6.6kV 25Hz electrification system in Morecombe/Heysham was converted to 6.25kV/50Hz and operated as a testbed installation.

Why was this removed? Was the equipment simply worn out and unable to continue?
The coaches were ancient, the catenary was non-standard - in places using wooden supports, the County Council wanted Greyhound bridge for a road......and Beeching
 

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The coaches were ancient, the catenary was non-standard - in places using wooden supports, the County Council wanted Greyhound bridge for a road......and Beeching

Additionally, there were two route to Morecambe and the other was better for services to just about anywhere except Lancaster. The Midland line was really only of use for journeys between Lancaster, Scale Hall and Morecambe.
 

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Did the old wires go to Heysham? If so, most of their length must have been on the Morecambe/Heysham line which remained, rather than on Green Ayre to Morecambe.
 

MarkyT

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This is peripherally related, but my understanding is the 6.6kV 25Hz electrification system in Morecombe/Heysham was converted to 6.25kV/50Hz and operated as a testbed installation.

Why was this removed? Was the equipment simply worn out and unable to continue?
The coaches were ancient, the catenary was non-standard - in places using wooden supports, the County Council wanted Greyhound bridge for a road......and Beeching
The original Midland trains were clearly rather ancient, but the 50Hz conversion provided replacements. Unfortunately, they were ex-LNWR Watford DC cars converted to AC, so younger by only a few years!
 

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Did the old wires go to Heysham? If so, most of their length must have been on the Morecambe/Heysham line which remained, rather than on Green Ayre to Morecambe.

They did go through to Heysham, which was where the original power station was. However, the service between Morecambe and Heysham was much less than on the Morecambe-Lancaster section, roughly 15 against 35 trains on a weekday (September 1964 to June 1965 timetable), and nearly half did not continue all the way, so it was probably not worth continuing with on its own.
 

Albaman

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This is peripherally related, but my understanding is the 6.6kV 25Hz electrification system in Morecombe/Heysham was converted to 6.25kV/50Hz and operated as a testbed installation.

Why was this removed? Was the equipment simply worn out and unable to continue?

Over the last few years, I have tried to obtain as many magazine articles and books with information on the Lancaster - Morecambe/Heysham electrification.

In the early 1950s, work was undertaken to convert the system to 6.6kV/50Hz from 6.6kV/25Hz. From what I can ascertain the condition of the units was a factor. The source of electricity for the original electrification was, I think, the power station at Heysham docks which was built to provide electricity for the cranes used there and , possibly, was owned and operated by the railway company. From photgraphs taken from the east end of the platforms at Lancaster Green Ayre station after 1953, it looks like there was an electricity sub station located adjacent to the railway lines from which the power was supplied.

I am unable to say what part the condition of the Heysham power station played in the decision regarding the conversion to 50Hz.

Apologies for the uncertainty in my comments but if anyone know of a comprehensive history of this scheme, I would be most grateful for details.
 

Ken H

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Over the last few years, I have tried to obtain as many magazine articles and books with information on the Lancaster - Morecambe/Heysham electrification.

In the early 1950s, work was undertaken to convert the system to 6.6kV/50Hz from 6.6kV/25Hz. From what I can ascertain the condition of the units was a factor. The source of electricity for the original electrification was, I think, the power station at Heysham docks which was built to provide electricity for the cranes used there and , possibly, was owned and operated by the railway company. From photgraphs taken from the east end of the platforms at Lancaster Green Ayre station after 1953, it looks like there was an electricity sub station located adjacent to the railway lines from which the power was supplied.

I am unable to say what part the condition of the Heysham power station played in the decision regarding the conversion to 50Hz.

Apologies for the uncertainty in my comments but if anyone know of a comprehensive history of this scheme, I would be most grateful for details.
There used to be a power station till 1976 on the road out towards Caton. Close enough to supply a sub station at Green Ayre. Lancaster Corporation then the nationalised generating board owned it. It was by the canal aqueduct. Stuff on wiki about lancaster power station.
 

Gloster

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Over the last few years, I have tried to obtain as many magazine articles and books with information on the Lancaster - Morecambe/Heysham electrification.

In the early 1950s, work was undertaken to convert the system to 6.6kV/50Hz from 6.6kV/25Hz. From what I can ascertain the condition of the units was a factor. The source of electricity for the original electrification was, I think, the power station at Heysham docks which was built to provide electricity for the cranes used there and , possibly, was owned and operated by the railway company. From photgraphs taken from the east end of the platforms at Lancaster Green Ayre station after 1953, it looks like there was an electricity sub station located adjacent to the railway lines from which the power was supplied.

I am unable to say what part the condition of the Heysham power station played in the decision regarding the conversion to 50Hz.

Apologies for the uncertainty in my comments but if anyone know of a comprehensive history of this scheme, I would be most grateful for details.

Google morecambe electrification and have a look, if you haven’t already, at the visit-gloucestershire site that comes up. There are one or two others that also appear. The line just comes within the area of the Cumbrian Railways Association, who I am fairly sure (not absolutely certain) had a series articles on it a few years ago.
 

randyrippley

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Over the last few years, I have tried to obtain as many magazine articles and books with information on the Lancaster - Morecambe/Heysham electrification.

In the early 1950s, work was undertaken to convert the system to 6.6kV/50Hz from 6.6kV/25Hz. From what I can ascertain the condition of the units was a factor. The source of electricity for the original electrification was, I think, the power station at Heysham docks which was built to provide electricity for the cranes used there and , possibly, was owned and operated by the railway company. From photgraphs taken from the east end of the platforms at Lancaster Green Ayre station after 1953, it looks like there was an electricity sub station located adjacent to the railway lines from which the power was supplied.

I am unable to say what part the condition of the Heysham power station played in the decision regarding the conversion to 50Hz.

Apologies for the uncertainty in my comments but if anyone know of a comprehensive history of this scheme, I would be most grateful for details.
The Harbour power station was built and owned by the Midland and powered Heysham harbour and the railway during the 25Hz period.
The 50Hz feed came from the Lancaster power station on Caton road, originally built to serve the nearby WW1 National Projectile Factory
 

D6130

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The Harbour power station was built and owned by the Midland and powered Heysham harbour and the railway during the 25Hz period.
The 50Hz feed came from the Lancaster power station on Caton road, originally built to serve the nearby WW1 National Projectile Factory
Borderline OT, but was there not another power station in Lancaster apart from Ladies' Walk (Caton Road)? I seem to remember that there was one on the South Bank of the River Lune alongside the Glasson branch and that the stub end of the branch was retained to serve it until it closed. Open to correction as always though.
 
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randyrippley

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Borderline OT, but was there not another power station in Lancaster apart from Ladies' Walk (Caton Road)? I seem to remember that there was one on the South Bank of the River Lune alongside the Glasson branch and that the stub end of the branch was retained to serve it until it Closed. Open to correction as always though.
yes there was, but my understanding was that it wasn't very successful. I believe it was built to power Storey's wallpaper and linoleum mills
Last I knew it was being used as an animal feed mill storage silo
 
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Over the last few years, I have tried to obtain as many magazine articles and books with information on the Lancaster - Morecambe/Heysham electrification.

In the early 1950s, work was undertaken to convert the system to 6.6kV/50Hz from 6.6kV/25Hz. From what I can ascertain the condition of the units was a factor. The source of electricity for the original electrification was, I think, the power station at Heysham docks which was built to provide electricity for the cranes used there and , possibly, was owned and operated by the railway company. From photgraphs taken from the east end of the platforms at Lancaster Green Ayre station after 1953, it looks like there was an electricity sub station located adjacent to the railway lines from which the power was supplied.

I am unable to say what part the condition of the Heysham power station played in the decision regarding the conversion to 50Hz.

Apologies for the uncertainty in my comments but if anyone know of a comprehensive history of this scheme, I would be most grateful for details.
The link to the Facebook group on #128 will take you to a treasure trove of information about the line, including copies of the original MR drawings for the overhead; scroll through the media and you will find a scan of an article from December 1953's Railway Magazine about the conversion to 50 cycles, why it was done, etc

There used to be a power station till 1976 on the road out towards Caton. Close enough to supply a sub station at Green Ayre. Lancaster Corporation then the nationalised generating board owned it. It was by the canal aqueduct. Stuff on wiki about lancaster power station.
According to the article in the December 1953 issue of Railway Magazine, the substation at Green Ayre was supplied by the North Western Electricity Board (the area distribution side rather than the generator - can't remember if the latter was CEGB by then or still BEA)

The Lancaster, Morecambe & Heysham route needs to be viewed as a double test bed

Back in the early 1900s, the MR was apparently thinking about electrifying the Derby - Manchester line over Peak Forest, and two if its engineers were sent on a grand European tour to see what was happening on the other side of the English Channel; they came back and recommended the 6.6kv single phase 25 cycle system, and the LM&H route was electrified as a test bed. Many of the original OHL drawings still exist, and although they were created for specific locations on that route, they should also be seen as prototypes for MR "standard" structures for future electrification schemes.

Electric trains were built at Derby for the route which were technically very advanced; some had Siemens equipment and one had Westinghouse. By 1950 they were worn out as well as being non standard, and although some LMS suburbans had been through wired for use as trailers, the power car interiors were very dated - as a comparison, think of the downstairs on the Burton & Ashby tram at Statfold!

There withdrawal corresponded with SNCF's 25kv electrification of the line through Annecy, and BR sent a team to look at it; as it was deemed that the overhead on the LM&H still had life in it, it was decided to use it as a test bed for 50 cycle schemes, but the original line voltage of 6.6kv was retained. BR worked with industry, and experimental overhead supports suitable for 25kv were erected westwards from Carlisle Bridge (where the WCML crosses over the River Lune) to the next road overbridge; from memory, at least one was reinforced concrete, but visually it was possible to see how some morphed into those erected by BR in the late 1950s/early 1960s

With hindsight, it's difficult to know if BR saw a long term future for this as an electrified route or not. From the Railway Magazine article, the decision to use refurbished EMUs was deliberate, and the LNWR Siemens sets which had been in store since about 1940 were available and rebuilt at Wolverton for their new role; their refurbished interiors - comfortable 2+2 seating! - would compare favourable with many current trains. These trains were also testbeds; one carried the first Faiveley type pantograph in GB, and another was a world first in having a solid state - Germanium - rectifier.

Photos also exist of the converted LM&H sets being tested at Fenchurch Street; at the time of the testing Fenchurch Street would have been electrified at 1500v DC and so I guess a section must have been isolated and temporarily fed with AC. Anyone know anything more about these tests?

The line closed as a Beeching cut, but if it had stayed open I guess it would probably have been de-electrified. Although the EMUs received new traction equipment when rebuilt at Wolverton in the early 1950s, they were over 50 years old at the line's closure, and much of the overhead must have been nearing its life end too; there were some steel gantries (and the experimental section renewed in the early 1950s), but the bulk was basically two wooden telegraph poles planted in concrete and connected with a steel cross-piece, and each was approaching 60 years of age. I guess the clearances on the metal structures would have been OK for 6.25kv, but not for 25kv (especially not on the graceful curved spans on Greyhound Bridge).
 
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Ken H

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Was the low frequencies' used then something to do with the technology not being available to put rectifiers on trains, and so they could run motors a bit like DC motors without too much arcing? Its why the German speaking part of Europe have low frequency railway electrification even today.
 

D6130

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An excellent and very informative post which has answered many of my questions about the LM&H electrification. Many thanks for posting.
 

MarkyT

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Was the low frequencies' used then something to do with the technology not being available to put rectifiers on trains, and so they could run motors a bit like DC motors without too much arcing? Its why the German speaking part of Europe have low frequency railway electrification even today.
Lower frequency was quite common for early AC electrification. The LBSC system of the same era was also 25Hz, at 6,700V. Transformers for stepping down voltage were still possible, but a little less efficient than at 50Hz.
 

59CosG95

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Was the low frequencies' used then something to do with the technology not being available to put rectifiers on trains, and so they could run motors a bit like DC motors without too much arcing? Its why the German speaking part of Europe have low frequency railway electrification even today.

15kV, 16⅔Hz is the system, so yes, much lower than its AC neighbours who all use 25kV 50Hz.
 

HSTEd

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Was the low frequencies' used then something to do with the technology not being available to put rectifiers on trains, and so they could run motors a bit like DC motors without too much arcing? Its why the German speaking part of Europe have low frequency railway electrification even today.
Yes, at the time these schemes were first proposed no practical rectifiers really existed. So the only real option was a universal motor.
 

MarkyT

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is the system, so yes, much lower than its AC neighbours who all use 25kV 50Hz.
15kV, 16⅔Hz is still used in Norway and Sweden, but Germany, Switzerland and Austria tweaked the frequency to 16.7 Hz in the 1990s.
 
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