313 Railtour?

[Islineclear3_1]

Travelled on enough 313's along the East and West Coastway since their introduction so the tour doesn't add anything new really. I've bought a daysave and will just follow it around

 

[Kite159]

Most likely the organisers have to work within the confines of what track the 313/2s have been cleared for, also paths for a 75mph unit on the busy Brighton Main Line & any planned engineering works (for it is a bank holiday weekend)

In terms of unusual track (sidings/loops) the 313 tour does some to keep the BLS members happy.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Most likely the organisers have to work within the confines of what track the 313/2s have been cleared for, also paths for a 75mph unit on the busy Brighton Main Line & any planned engineering works (for it is a bank holiday weekend)

In terms of unusual track (sidings/loops) the 313 tour does some to keep the BLS members happy.

Little bit disappointed with the route. I expected at least one London terminal or even the North London line but I understand the constraints. I guess the only time the 313s will return to the North London Line is when they are dragged to Newport.

 

[Kite159]

I expected at least one London terminal or even the North London line

Bit hard for them to do the North London line at the 313/2s are DC only, so the only part would be Clapham to Shepherd's Bush.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Little bit disappointed with the route. I expected at least one London terminal or even the North London line but I understand the constraints. I guess the only time the 313s will return to the North London Line is when they are dragged to Newport.

Bit hard for them to do the North London line at the 313/2s are DC only, so the only part would be Clapham to Shepherd's Bush.

Yup, all the pantographs were removed ....

 

[TheHSRailFan]

but it would have been great to get in a run to some of the London Terminals, as happened on the 455 tour.

Little bit disappointed with the route. I expected at least one London terminal or even the North London line but I understand the constraints. I guess the only time the 313s will return to the North London Line is when they are dragged to Newport.

From the publically available information and what has been said by Kite, they do not have as much clearance unlike the 455s. It can be a range of reasons but I think the main 2 reasons are that they are pretty old (yes for the 455 the whole day was like making the last use of the 2 sets before they gave up on wanting to work anymore, but 313s are not like the 455s) and that's what they where cleared to do in passenger service.

Certainly like with the 315 event, it wasn't that special but there were still a whole load of people who turned out for that or rode. I am riding it because I certainly enjoy rail tours of trains that are about to finish their working life as well as meeting friends on board the event.

Just for yourself and others wondering on here, yes 321 and 313 farewells going to be on the same day.

Strangely, they seem to have been launched in a backwards way to each other, with the 313 formally announced and live for tickets but with no RTT paths (yet) and the 321 not formally announced but GA ruining their own surprise by uploading all the timings yesterday.

I see as we have gathered. BLS do state the times and route is "indicative" until timings have been confirmed by NetworkRail.

 

[Class15]

Well, they could do Dalston - Highbury & Islington and Richmond - Acton Central.......

How is the line through Primrose Hill from the Watford DC services to the NLL electrified now - used to be 3rd rail, is it now OHL ?

There is a bit of third rail running from Camden Junction on the WCML to Primrose Hill (or maybe a bit further, I’m not sure) but the D.C. electric system is isolated so difficult to reach.

 

[315801]

Can I ask please, if the tour was to be run where 25Kv is in operation, would it not be an idea to refit the pantographs to the units that will run the tour and therefore enable 25Kv & 750 DC running

 

[Kite159]

Can I ask please, if the tour was to be run where 25Kv is in operation, would it not be an idea to refit the pantographs to the units that will run the tour and therefore enable 25Kv & 750 DC running

Assuming the AC equipment still exists and didn't get scrapped when the units were converted to be DC only.

 

[Sly Sloth]

Can I ask please, if the tour was to be run where 25Kv is in operation, would it not be an idea to refit the pantographs to the units that will run the tour and therefore enable 25Kv & 750 DC running

I’d imagine the retrofit would cost thousands…. I’d doubt anybody would want to pay potentially many hundreds or more for a ticket when their already griping that it’s costing double what most thought it would do in the 1st place!!

 

[lumitumey12345]

They can always couple it to 313121?

 

[315801]

I would definitely agree there because 313121 towed 313201 back after the unit was painted back into blue and grey, the only effect that had was that the door open lights were on while running under 25Kv even though no doors were actually open, the lights went off when the formation reached 3rd rail territory.

 

[paul1609]

Yup, all the pantographs were removed ....

Its not only the pantographs, the 313/2s were reconfigured so they had a dc bus line between the two driving cars to reduce the chance of being gapped on the many level crossings next to stations on the West Coastway. This involved isolating all the ac and changeover equipment which hasn't been used or maintained in the subsequent 13 years.

 

[D365]

I’d imagine the retrofit would cost thousands…. I’d doubt anybody would want to pay potentially many hundreds or more for a ticket when their already griping that it’s costing double what most thought it would do in the 1st place!!

Correct.

They can always couple it to 313121?

Which I would suspect isn't cleared for passenger operations.

 

[d.collins26]

Caterham and Tattenham Corner would be an interesting destination

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Caterham and Tattenham Corner would be an interesting destination

again they are cleared so far up the BML.

 

[phil281]

again they are cleared so far up the BML.

313s are only cleared for passenger use as far north as Three Bridges. Only cleared ECS north of Three Bridges as they've never been 'crush loaded' tested (same on the Arun Valley line). It does limit the routing somewhat, compared to say the 455 tour.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

313s are only cleared for passenger use as far north as Three Bridges. Only cleared ECS north of Three Bridges as they've never been 'crush loaded' tested (same on the Arun Valley line). It does limit the routing somewhat, compared to say the 455 tour.

Indeed, I mean they were only for use on the coastways really and that's it.

 

[prod_pep]

Overall, an interesting route and it should be a great occasion. Wouldn't miss it for the world.

It's a slight shame a run to Southampton couldn't be accommodated as I never did manage a 313 that far out, but the Three Bridges run is a clear highlight.

 

[Train Maniac]

313s are only cleared for passenger use as far north as Three Bridges. Only cleared ECS north of Three Bridges as they've never been 'crush loaded' tested (same on the Arun Valley line). It does limit the routing somewhat, compared to say the 455 tour.

Do you mean crush loading in terms of passengers, or crush loading in terms of voltage overload? (seems a bit silly otherwise)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Do you mean crush loading in terms of passengers, or crush loading in terms of voltage overload? (seems a bit silly otherwise)

I don't think 313's are power intensive (unlike 377's/387's/700's) and have worked in multiple to/from Selhurst so I'm guessing the OP means passengers

 

[Train Maniac]

I don't think 313's are power intensive (unlike 377's/387's/700's) and have worked in multiple to/from Selhurst so I'm guessing the OP means passengers

Well thats an incredibly daft reason not to run on a different route. The tour is by booking only so passenger loading shouldnt be a problem. The drivers also sign as far as Selshurst Depot anyway so its not a route knowledge problem either

 

[paul1609]

Personally since GTR are unable to run the full (very reduced) coastway timetable without frequent cancellations due to lack of available train crew. I don't think any staff resources should be diverted to train spotter specials. If necessary the Dft should step in to ban any specials railtours etc until the current issues are resolved.

 

[Sly Sloth]

Personally since GTR are unable to run the full (very reduced) coastway timetable without frequent cancellations due to lack of available train crew. I don't think any staff resources should be diverted to train spotter specials. If necessary the Dft should step in to ban any specials railtours etc until the current issues are resolved.

Clueless comment…..do you know how many staff want to be involved in this? Those that are will very likely be doing it either on a rest day or for nothing as their enthusiasts themselves!! And route knowledge will be no issue!

 

[bramling]

Personally since GTR are unable to run the full (very reduced) coastway timetable without frequent cancellations due to lack of available train crew. I don't think any staff resources should be diverted to train spotter specials. If necessary the Dft should step in to ban any specials railtours etc until the current issues are resolved.

These sorts of things tend to be resourced via overtime if necessary, with plenty of potential takers, so very unlikely to have any detrimental effect elsewhere.

 

[paul1609]

These sorts of things tend to be resourced via overtime if necessary, with plenty of potential takers, so very unlikely to have any detrimental effect elsewhere.

Absolutely, if theres no overtime being worked to maintain the timetabled service, there should be no overtime offered to facilitate "specials".
All resources (network rail, toc planning etc.etc) on the normal passenger service.

 

[Fincra5]

Absolutely, if theres no overtime being worked to maintain the timetabled service, there should be no overtime offered to facilitate "specials".
All resources (network rail, toc planning etc.etc) on the normal passenger service.

And they are. There is no impact on the daily service to accommodate "Train Spotter Specials", as you call it.

 

[Watershed]

Absolutely, if theres no overtime being worked to maintain the timetabled service, there should be no overtime offered to facilitate "specials".
All resources (network rail, toc planning etc.etc) on the normal passenger service.

That's not how it works though. You can't force staff to work overtime; they will volunteer as and when it suits them. They're clearly much more likely to volunteer to help run a railtour than for a Saturday night shift dealing with drunks.

 

[paul1609]

That's not how it works though. You can't force staff to work overtime; they will volunteer as and when it suits them. They're clearly much more likely to volunteer to help run a railtour than for a Saturday night shift dealing with drunks.

Absolutely that is their right. However there is also no need for a taxpayer supported TOC to offer overtime to support special trains and they should not be whilst the current situation exists. There should be an absolute ban on special trains, rail tours loco moves etc.

 

[Watershed]

Absolutely that is their right. However there is also no need for a taxpayer supported TOC to offer overtime to support special trains and they should not be whilst the current situation exists. There should be an absolute ban on special trains, rail tours loco moves etc.

I'm glad that you are not in charge!

Operating this railtour in no way impairs normal operations. It has no day to day impact and isn't costing the taxpayer anything - unlike normal services on the Coastway, which are heavily subsidised.