39 steps. Hitchcock film

[yorksrob]

That's an old gag as in the Goons

You can't beat a classic

 

[tbwbear]

Prompted by this thread, I actually found the 1959 version on you tube - and watched it again last night. As yorksrob pointed out, there are some great scenes of Kings Cross in the 1950s and, in fact, the whole thing gives a nice representation of Britain in the late 1950s.

The railway scenes feature an A4-hauled express from London to Edinburgh and then later what is, presumably, meant to be the same train crossing the Forth Bridge.

Just wondering - how common was that ? Did the A4s often work beyond Edinburgh on the, presumably, Aberdeen trains in the late 50s ? Wouldn't they have changed locomotive in Edinburgh ? I know the A4s had an "Indian Summer" on the internal scottish expresses in the 60s, but how common were they north of Edinburgh in the 50s. Just got me wondering.

Agree that as a film the Hitchcock version is slightly better.

 

[Taunton]

Did the A4s often work beyond Edinburgh on the, presumably, Aberdeen trains in the late 50s ? Wouldn't they have changed locomotive in Edinburgh ? I know the A4s had an "Indian Summer" on the internal Scottish expresses in the 60s, but how common were they north of Edinburgh in the 50s.

You are correct, not a lot. Normal steam power on the Edinburgh to Aberdeen main services was an A2, which had smaller driving wheels than the mainstream LNER Pacifics, more suited to the switchback/corkscrew route than the ECML racing ground. Strangely the services then often also changed locos at Dundee as well.

 

[trebor79]

Actually the best production of all was a 2000s theatre show, principally at the Criterion Theatre, Piccadilly Circus, done as a comedy. It depended on you knowing of the book and particularly the Hitchcock film version. It used just four actors who must have each worked through 30 or more costumes through the production. It was brilliant, witty, and well received by the critics; it ran for 10 years, and won awards for best comedy. A scene on stage of crossing the Forth Bridge was parodied by using boxes and hand-held sticks to mimic the outline of the bridge!

The 39 Steps (play) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, an absolutely superb show. Particularly remember a part where the actors are behind the curtains, with various hands, arms and legs thrust through. Suddenly the limb from what must be a fifth person appears, one of the characters explains "Hang on! I thought this was meant to be a four hander!"
Combined with lunch at the now sadly closed Criterion Restaurant it made for a rather pleasant day out.

 

[dubscottie]

You are correct, not a lot. Normal steam power on the Edinburgh to Aberdeen main services was an A2, which had smaller driving wheels than the mainstream LNER Pacifics, more suited to the switchback/corkscrew route than the ECML racing ground. Strangely the services then often also changed locos at Dundee as well.

A4s were very common on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route in both LNER & BR days. They were common on the sleepers and in BR days, the Blue Spot fast fish trains. I am originally from Fife and have books with countless pics of them North of Edinburgh.

 

[Cowley]

A4s were very common on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route in both LNER & BR days. They were common on the sleepers and in BR days, the Blue Spot fast fish trains. I am originally from Fife and have books with countless pics of them North of Edinburgh.

I must admit that I didn’t realise they were common on the route in LNER days, I’d always assumed that they were drafted in once their main work between King’s Cross and Edinburgh had disappeared after the introduction of the Deltics?
I’m not doubting you by way, I just didn’t realise.
I guess that because it was their last hurrah on express work (as late as 1966?) there’s been lots written about it over the years.

 

[dubscottie]

Haymarket had between 7-10 during LNER days most of which were "general use". There are 4 pics I can find for now from then. In 3 the locos are apple green (pre 1938) and one in wartime black. 1 on the Forth Bridge, 2 in Fife and 1 in Aberdeen.

If I remember right, there is footage of the 50s 39 Steps being filmed (out-takes Etc) on the"Steam on 39mm" dvd.

 

[Cowley]

Haymarket had between 7-10 during LNER days most of which were "general use". There are 4 pics I can find for now from then. In 3 the locos are apple green (pre 1938) and one in wartime black. 1 on the Forth Bridge, 2 in Fife and 1 in Aberdeen.

If I remember right, there is footage of the 50s 39 Steps being filmed (out-takes Etc) on the"Steam on 39mm" dvd.

Interesting stuff, thanks @dubscottie.

 

[randyrippley]

A4s were very common on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route in both LNER & BR days. They were common on the sleepers and in BR days, the Blue Spot fast fish trains. I am originally from Fife and have books with countless pics of them North of Edinburgh.

That does seem a waste of resources - you'd think the highest performing locos would be on the fastest routes.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

In the late 1950s I used to be a regular train spotter on the line out of Kings Cross. The A4s were my favourite locomotives on that route - we called them "streaks" - but while some would be seen on a daily basis in the London area, others never appeared. I was so pleased when my father took me one Friday night to Kings Cross to see 60002 Sir Murrough Wilson take out the Night Scotsman because that was a "rare" engine. I never saw 60004 Sir William Whitelaw, 60011 Empire Of India or 60024 Kingfisher in all my years of train spotting, so clearly they were confined to north of Newcastle.

 

[tbwbear]

In the 1959 film the only number I can discern is 60027 (Merlin ?) which is one of the shots of the train leaving Edinburgh when the locomotive is pulling away from the camera. This is capture 20 on "Reelstreets"

There is also shot of the train "on the way to Edinburgh" (Capture 15), arriving at Edinburgh (Capture 16) a separate one leaving Edinburgh when it is coming towards the camera (Capture 19) and the various shots of it stopped and then restarting on the Forth Bridge.

Presumably that could be 4 or 5 different locomotives.

 

[dubscottie]

That does seem a waste of resources - you'd think the highest performing locos would be on the fastest routes.

There was nothing else powerful enough and the NBR Atlantics were being withdrawn at that point. They would work the sleeper north in the small hours and return with a lunchtime train from Aberdeen. In reverse it was lunchtime from Edinburgh and back with the sleeper.

Regarding the filming of the 50s film. My dad was a fireman on the bankers up to the Forth Bridge at the time, outbased at Inverkeithing.

I can recall him telling me it was filmed on a Sunday and took multiple runs. The train was turned on the triangle at Inverkeithing and the now long gone triangle south of Dalmeny (at the navy stores depot, also long gone).

There was some pics posted to a Facebook group ages ago and I think there are a few on Flickr also.

 

[morrisobrien]

tube - and watched it again last night. As yorksrob pointed out, there are some great scenes of Kings Cross in the 1950s and, in fact, the whole thing gives a nice representation of Britain in the late 1950s.

For any paddle steamer fans on the forum the opening scenes on the lake show a superb model of the paddle steamer "Devonia" belonging to the famous White Funnel Fleet of P.&A.Campbell Ltd.,Bristol.

 

[341o2]

Going back to the original novel, Hannay decided to go into hiding by posing as a Scot, the nearest area which looked remote enough was Dumfreis and Galloway and he travelled from St Pancras. As for the autogyro, Hannay is indeed hunted from the air by a monoplane in the book. The baddies are a spy ring intent on provoking war by assassinating a foreign national in London, while the 39 steps existed at a certain time regarding tides, where the assassin was to escape by boat

 

[37201xoIM]

Meanwhile in the Hitch version, the place Hannay is aiming to get to in Scotland is named as Alt-na-Shellach, which I suspect is a conflation of Achnashellach and Achanalt, obviously both stations on the Kyle of Lochalsh line... but if you look carefully at the mocked-up Ordnance Survey map showing Alt-na-Shellach, it's shown to be just up Glen Lochy from Killin, at the top end of Loch Tay! (In reality there's only a small farmhouse there... yes, I'm sad enough to have gone to have a look!)

While I'm on, I'm going to say a word sticking up for the 1970s Robert Powell version! No more or less believable than any other, but a proper, gripping old-school thriller with a lot of fine set-pieces... including of course the Big Ben scene, which is the sort of thing I am sure Hitch would have approved of (cf. Mount Rushmore, to which it probably owes a lot!).

Hitch's version to me is more about period charm than anything else - and about the fact that Hitch made perfectly plain that he didn't care about historical / geographical / technical accuracy: all that mattered was entertainment ("total cinema"). So it's totally in keeping that the trains are of course totally obviously inconsistent to the point of self-parody: he never wanted to be a realist!

As for the Kenneth More one, I must admit I've always found that to be a bit of a plodding more-or-less remake of Hitch's version, coming out as a pale imitation, with a hero lacking in charisma, and overall somehow looking more dated that its predecessor! To be fair, I've never seen the point of Kenneth More...