442 Units to Brighton

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good morning, I am planning an awayday from Clapham Junction to Brighton, probably on a weekday later this month, have to leave Clapham jct after 1000 owing to Gold card restrictions.

Are any services to Brighton & return still formed of the old SWT Wessex electrics class 442 units. I did travel on these a couple of years ago to Brighton and enjoyed the experience. I know they are mainly used for Gatwick expresses, but hope the odd one goes on to Brighton & back.

Many Thanks.

 

[richardderby]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=84997

see above..

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Many Thanks for that link.

Seems though that the 442s don't coincide with my travel plans, oh well never mind, I will just have to settle for the regular Southern trains units. Rgds.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When the 442s eventually get permantly withdrawn, I hope they do a few fairwell tours on the SWML all the way from Weymouth-Waterloo (would they be ever permitted to operate on the Weymouth tramway as part of a rail tour?)

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

When the 442s eventually get permantly withdrawn, I hope they do a few fairwell tours on the SWML all the way from Weymouth-Waterloo (would they be ever permitted to operate on the Weymouth tramway as part of a rail tour?)

Are they being taken out of service then. That's a shame. Will they be used elsewhere, or will they be scrapped which seems a great pity.
What will they use on the Gatwick express instead.

I would like to see them back in SWT Land. I prefer them to the current stock on that line.

I don't think anything is allowed on the Weymouth tramway now.

 

[SGS]

The 1732, 1744, 1800, 1815, 1832 and 1844 Mon-Fri Gatwick Express departures from Victoria are extended to Brighton, presumably still using 442s.

 

[Kite159]

The 1732, 1744, 1800, 1815, 1832 and 1844 Mon-Fri Gatwick Express departures from Victoria are extended to Brighton, presumably still using 442s.

Indeed, makes for a good sight at Brighton in the evening to see the 442s lined up ready to head back north on a regular Brighton express service. Best chance to get one on a weekday hanging around East Croydon for the short trip back to Victoria.

I might try and do a daysave to do the Brighton/Victoria run on a 442, nicer trains than the 377s

 

[TEW]

The 1732, 1744, 1800, 1815, 1832 and 1844 Mon-Fri Gatwick Express departures from Victoria are extended to Brighton, presumably still using 442s.

Any Gatwick Express service to Brighton will be formed of a 442. The diagrams listed in the Frequently Requested Diagrams thread are all the Southern operated services formed of 442s.

 

[swt_passenger]

When the 442s eventually get permantly withdrawn, I hope they do a few fairwell tours on the SWML all the way from Weymouth-Waterloo (would they be ever permitted to operate on the Weymouth tramway as part of a rail tour?)

Even if it wasn't out of use, can you think of a safe way of running DC third rail down a street?

 

[Carlisle]

(would they be ever permitted to operate on the Weymouth tramway as part of a rail tour?)

It would be great to see it in use again but I'm not holding my breath after at least 15 years of lying derelict

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are they being taken out of service then. That's a shame. Will they be used elsewhere, or will they be scrapped which seems a great pity.
What will they use on the Gatwick express instead.

I would like to see them back in SWT Land. I prefer them to the current stock on that line.

I don't think anything is allowed on the Weymouth tramway now.

There not being withdrawn yet but they'll have to be fairly soon as the traction motors are on borrowed time and to replace then would mean replacing the entire traction package, it would probably be cheaper to order a new build of EMUs. What also goes against them is the fact they've not got a pan well, so as lines get converted from 3rd rail to overhead the lines where they could be used shrinks.

Even if it wasn't out of use, can you think of a safe way of running DC third rail down a street?

What if they were top&tailed by locos (would class 33s be compatible) with the shoes secured out of the way?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Even if it wasn't out of use, can you think of a safe way of running DC third rail down a street?

When in regular passenger use in BR days, they were diesel hauled through the streets of Weymouth and before that steam traction must have been used.

Infact it was only in the mid 1980s I think, that the SW line was converted to electric traction, before that the trains would come from Waterloo using 3rd rail, then a Diesel would take it forward from Bournemouth.

 

[swt_passenger]

When in regular passenger use in BR days, they were diesel hauled through the streets of Weymouth and before that steam traction must have been used.

Infact it was only in the mid 1980s I think, that the SW line was converted to electric traction, before that the trains would come from Waterloo using 3rd rail, then a Diesel would take it forward from Bournemouth.

I know all that, but the point is that 442s themselves (introduced specifically for for the electrification to Weymouth) did not ever use the tramway, and to the best of my knowledge were never top and tailed in normal service.

So the proposal is completely artificial - if for some reason someone wants to see a 442 diesel loco hauled you could equally easily do it on the Brighton line.

 

[Feathers44]

Somewhat off topic but I hadn't realised the tramway was still in place in Weymouth. I think I used it once as a child on the way to catch a boat and I know it survived for a good few years but I hadn't imagined there was any chance of it still being there.

On the 442 front, there is always one generally sat just outside Gatwick when I drive past morning and evening. I assume that it's a terminating service waiting to go back the other way?

 

[southern442]

I don't think they will be withdrawn immediately after being replaced with 387's, meaning that we could see more of them on Brighton fasts for a short while.

 

[Aictos]

The incoming CEO of GTR said yesterday while they were popular trains with passengers, operationally they are a not fit for purpose and once replaced with new built trains will be returned to the ROSCO after which is anyone's guess what happens.

Equally surprising the reason why the 442s replaced the 460s in the first place was because although the 460s took up 20% of BML capacity they only carried 5% of BML passenger loadings.

 

[swt_passenger]

Equally surprising the reason why the 442s replaced the 460s in the first place was because although the 460s took up 20% of BML capacity they only carried 5% of BML passenger loadings.

Fairly well documented in the run up to the decision to extend in the peaks, in the 2004 Brighton Line RUS for example they point out that:

Gatwick Express TOC services into London have a
significant number of spare seats with 80% of seats available
between 07:00 and 07:30 rising to their highest load factors
between 09:00 and 09:30 when there are just over 50% of seats
occupied.

At the time DfT eventually announced the transfer of GatEx to SN with extensions to/from Brighton in the peak I'm sure it included that reasoning, even if not including explicit figures.

 

[Bishopstone]

The incoming CEO of GTR said yesterday while they were popular trains with passengers, operationally they are a not fit for purpose and once replaced with new built trains will be returned to the ROSCO after which is anyone's guess what happens.

I think he meant 'railway enthusiasts' rather than 'passengers'.

There's nothing popular about trying to wedge your luggage through a narrow coach-end door with a high step. There's nothing popular about shoving wheelchair-using passengers in the guard's van. There's nothing popular about regular breakdowns and failed aircon and an inaudible PA system. There's nothing popular about sliding to a halt during leaf fall season, or about persistently losing time on the Down Eastbourne, or about your train being regularly cancelled.

The decision to bin the 442s is an excellent one, and I hope if one is acquired for preservation the buyer has very deep pockets.