A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[najaB]

I wish I hadn't bothered with the Telephone Preference Service, because it did absolutely nothing to stop the nuisance calls.

It would have done no harm registering with it but a lot of people misunderstand what it is and does. Since only legitimate companies abide by it there would have been zero reduction in scam calls - people who are already breaking the law aren't likely to be scared of a £50K fine from Ofcom. Also, most of the scam call centres are owned and operated by people in deepest Overseasland where Ofcom again has no jurisdiction. The only calls that are really impacted by TPS registration are sales calls from companies with which you have no commercial relationship.

Even then, they are only likely to get into trouble if it's demonstrated that they aren't checking the TPS list before dialling.

 

[py_megapixel]

As others have said - yes, this is a textbook tech support scam.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’ve had calls from HMRC, Microsoft, various banks, and BT (who said my BT internet was faulty, and when I said it was Virgin, he said he meant the line and connection, and even when I said I had installed the Virgin fibre myself, and watched the technician connect it at the Virgin box, he still kept trying!)

Important stuff that you don't know about doesn't come by telephone any more.

Sometimes it does. Credit card fraud departments will usually contact you by phone. My last call from them asked me to check some transactions - and whilst we were talking another attempt was made on the card.

 

[baz962]

Your Paypal account has been suspended.
Another oldie doing the rounds again
Had two last week

I keep getting them ( I have never used my PayPal account ) . Getting two a day . Also getting the same email , but regarding my Amazon account ( in wife's name and email ) . I ignore them all and most of the scam one's have shockingly bad spelling sometimes. Had one from my bank which did turn out to be genuine , but I had phoned them to make sure. Started getting the old - I need your help to get this money that I can access , but through your account. No ta

 

[SteveM70]

All this makes me (i) so glad my parents have zero online presence and (ii) worried about how I’ll cope when I’m decrepit

 

[philjo]

We had one last week claiming To be from BT And supposedly due to usual activity they would terminate the contract the following day. (My broadband is not with BT so don’t have a contract with Them!) They actually called twice. The Second time they gave a number to call back. Local trading standards gave us the correct BT number to report it to - BT have blocked that number from calling our line though i suspect they’ll Use a different number another time.

 

[py_megapixel]

Local trading standards gave us the correct BT number to report it to - BT have blocked that number from calling our line though i suspect they’ll Use a different number another time.

Correct. Mostly these scammers use VoIP services (Voice over Internet) where getting a new outbound number is likely to be trivially cheap and easy, and doable within a matter of hours or minutes. Unfortunately this means that blocking individual numbers has little effect.

There are some very interesting YouTube channels which demonstrate what these people will do if you participate. The common reason is to convince you that there is a problem with your computer that requires fixing. This usually involves some kind of scaremongering with references being made to viruses and hackers (which of course are fictional). This may involve using legitimate features, such as the Windows eventviewer and task manager utilities, to overwhelm the victim with scary "techy"-looking information and ultimately mislead them.

Of course, once you have been convinced of this it can be used as a means to extort money from you to "fix the problem" (read: do absolutely nothing), which can be in the hundreds or thousands of pounds. If the victim refuses to pay the scammers may start to cause actual damage (such as deleting files), which may either be attributed to the fake "viruses" or "hackers", or used as a form of blackmail.

Of course, it can be much worse than this. Some scammers simply want access to the computer to steal private files or even to install an actual piece of malware. However most often they seem to be in it purely for the money.

The Youtube channel which is particularly informative is Jim Browning <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNG0osIBAprVcZZ3ic84vw>, while some others, such as Kitboga, take a more entertainment-focussed path by finding amusing ways to waste the scammers' time <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm22FAXZMw1BaWeFszZxUKw>

 

[High Dyke]

There's an argument that says that you should set your phone up to block any call that doesn't come from a known number. Important stuff that you don't know about doesn't come by telephone any more.

Ordinarily I'd agree. If they can't be bothered to leave a message on the answer machine, and don't have a number to call back on (mainly an "out of area" call) then tough! I did have a slight problem a few weeks ago. I'd been waiting for Barclays to call about a Bounce Back Loan. They duly called whilst I was at work, but on two occasions didn't leave a message, despite instructions they needed to. Eventually they managed to get hold of me, but like scam calls, there was a pause before a human voice came on the line.

The latest has been an 'unidentified' call centre asking for a Mrs Bull. Sadly they can't even pronounce my wife's full surname so get short shrift.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If I get a call on my mobile from telemarketers or scammers, my network (EE) will highlight it while my phone rings with the message "Suspected Scam" so I know to just reject the call. This service isn't something I asked them to do, and I don't know how they know, but I'm pretty sure there's been no false positives (though how would I know? ). I'd certainly rather that than block all calls from places I don't recognise because there are plenty of times you get a genuine call from somewhere that hasn't called you before.

 

[PeterC]

Sometimes it does. Credit card fraud departments will usually contact you by phone. My last call from them asked me to check some transactions - and whilst we were talking another attempt was made on the card.

When I set up intertnet banking I was asked to provide them with a code word that they could use to identify themselves if they called me. They have never needed to but it seems that the security team don't have access to it and can't id themselves when calling about a suspect transaction.

When the caller asks me to identify myself I always ring off, make sure the line is clear (or use my mobile) and call back.

 

[pdeaves]

The 'IT' scams are always interesting. 'They' try to talk you through some Windows thing, but I don't use that operating system. It's easy to confuse people reading off a script!

For my work computer (Windows), I set up the taskbar to be on the left rather than at the bottom. That's enough to confuse our (legit) IT support people!

 

[yorkie]

I get loads of wrong numbers at work. I also get a load of people trying to sell stuff.

I get some scam calls; I play along with them. If possible I will tell them I will be back soon and put my phone next to a speaker playing Never Gonna Give You Up (I hope everyone here understands the relevance of that )

Here is an earlier forum thread on the subject: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cold-evening-phone-calling.45129/#post-661631

 

[Busaholic]

I always tell them about my fascinating medical condition - works a dream, it's not long before I'm asking 'are you still there?'

 

[Westcountryman]

The other one I get, sometimes on my mobile is the 'I understand you were injured in a crash that wasn't your fault'. Unfortunately my wife was injured in a bad car accident that wasn't our fault, which had gone through our insurers and the personal injury was being dealt with by solicitors. I don't know whether these people were actually aware of the crash; I suspect not as we got them before the crash as well. Slightly off tangent, I have watched Claimed and Shamed, and I see people making large claims for bogus, contrived or trivial claims. I can tell you from experience, it is very difficult to make a genuine claim, with all sorts of hoops to jump through, and the financial outcome for my wife's injuries were not all that large.

 

[eastwestdivide]

a crash that wasn't your fault

Almost certainly they weren't aware of your actual crash. It's another common scam call, although perhaps more common in my experience a couple of years back. Somehow they never actually have any details of the crash when you ask them "which crash was this then?". The nearest I got to an answer was "in the last 3 years".

 

[3rd rail land]

I'd love to get one of these scam tech support calls and then give them access to my Ubuntu (Linux) machine. The confusion it would cause them when my OS doesn't conform with their script would be no doubt be very amusing.
I do primarily use a Windows computer but there i s no chance I would give a tech scammer access to it.

I do sometimes get unexpected calls on my landline but I never give out my landline number it is highly unlikely to be legit so I ignore them. I only ever give out my mobile number and the landline is only there as a 'failover' option as we call it in the IT industry.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In simple terms, how does the Microsoft scam work?

Does typing in the "instructions" given over the phone by the supposed consultant (assuming you have t'internet access) give the scammers remote working access to your PC allowing them to install malware, keylogging software or similar?

 

[Bald Rick]

In simple terms, how does the Microsoft scam work?

Does typing in the "instructions" given over the phone by the supposed consultant (assuming you have t'internet access) give the scammers remote working access to your PC allowing them to install malware, keylogging software or similar?

It can do. More typically, your PC is ‘disabled’ or suggests it has a virus, and you pay them to ‘fix’ it, even though actually it didn’t need fixing.

 

[ainsworth74]

In simple terms, how does the Microsoft scam work?

Does typing in the "instructions" given over the phone by the supposed consultant (assuming you have t'internet access) give the scammers remote working access to your PC allowing them to install malware, keylogging software or similar?

So usually they ring and say they're from "Windows Support for Microsoft" or some similar variation (often they'll have a poorly cobbled together website which even so can lend them an air of respectability with various logos stolen from Microsoft which they'll direct you to to "verify" their identity) and warn you that you have a virus or critical errors on your system and they're ringing to help you solve it. If you go along with them then when I had it and played along (to waste their time and have some fun!) they'd direct you (over the phone so at the moment you're doing all this yourself whilst they guide you) to a legitimate Windows service called "Event Viewer" and take you to some of the logs in there that will often show "Warning" (with a nice little yellow triangle with an exclamation mark) next to loads of different entries. Usually this is totally normal and not something to worry about (but it might not be which is why Event Viewer exists but for your average consumer this is all irrelevant) but they'll use it to worry the unwary "So as you can see there's many errors on your system!" "Oh yes I do see that's a lot of problems, what can we do to fix it?!".

They'll then direct you to the internet and I think it's here that the scam can diverge slightly. The last time I had it you'd go to a website (this is the point I'd drop out and reveal I was messing with them which lead to some amusing responses as usually I'd have dragged it out quite a while by now*), download an application which would allow them access to your system from which they can then either steal stuff (like logins or bank details if you have those saved obviously) or lock you out of your computer unless you pay a fee to unlock it ("Oh I'm sorry sir, the errors have locked your system so the only choice now is to pay this huge repair fee!"). The other version I believe is that they then direct you to a website where there is software which will "fix" the problems or "remove" the viruses and they'll get you to buy it whilst they're on the phone. The software is, at best, harmless but equally could be malware which will now start logging all sorts of info about you.

In nutshell that's how it works. It's entirely predicated on taking advantage of people who aren't that tech savvy or are sufficiently suggestible. To be honest it's a really evil scam as far as I'm concerned as it entirely preys on the vulnerable and swindles them, sometimes repeatedly, out of their money. So I always considered myself to be doing a public service by taking their time up as every minute they spent with me was a minute they couldn't speak to someone who would fall for it!

*I think my favourite was the guy who then accused me of being the hacker as I'd wasted his time

 

[Bald Rick]

I spent an hour or two watching some of the ”Jim Browning” videos on YouTube which deconstruct what they do. Really fascinating. Also a couple of more amusing ones by other youtubers.

 

[JohnMcL7]

The other one I get, sometimes on my mobile is the 'I understand you were injured in a crash that wasn't your fault'. Unfortunately my wife was injured in a bad car accident that wasn't our fault, which had gone through our insurers and the personal injury was being dealt with by solicitors. I don't know whether these people were actually aware of the crash; I suspect not as we got them before the crash as well. Slightly off tangent, I have watched Claimed and Shamed, and I see people making large claims for bogus, contrived or trivial claims. I can tell you from experience, it is very difficult to make a genuine claim, with all sorts of hoops to jump through, and the financial outcome for my wife's injuries were not all that large.

I've never been in an accident nor even claimed on car insurance but I regularly receive these calls about the accident I was in, annoyingly because I take work calls I can't just ignore unknown numbers either. There's a couple times I've asked them for details on my accident they've got on file at which point they've become quickly annoyed and hung up on me.

I've also watched Claimed and Shamed which annoys me because clearly these companies are successful in getting a number of people to claim for non-accidents but despite wasting a substantial amount of time, the scam companies don't suffer any consequences and can keep on doing it.

 

[PeterC]

Almost certainly they weren't aware of your actual crash. It's another common scam call, although perhaps more common in my experience a couple of years back. Somehow they never actually have any details of the crash when you ask them "which crash was this then?". The nearest I got to an answer was "in the last 3 years".

I had a flurry of these calls after a genuine insurance claim. The timing did make me think that the targetting might be based on genuine information.

Not that I could have justified a personal injury claim as the car was parked and I was in a building on the other side of the road at the time.

 

[3rd rail land]

Just received the HMRC scam call. I didn't answer and an automated voice message was left. As these scammers often do they spoofed a local number to make the call seem legit.

I actually do owe HMRC a small amount outwith PAYE but I have already arranged for the money to be taken out of my pay each money in installments. Plus HMRC never call people unless I am mistaken. They always use snail mail.

 

[ainsworth74]

I spent an hour or two watching some of the ”Jim Browning” videos on YouTube which deconstruct what they do. Really fascinating. Also a couple of more amusing ones by other youtubers.

I spent a similar amount of time watching his videos on YouTube a few months ago. It really is very fascinating (and infuriating) stuff.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I had a flurry of these calls after a genuine insurance claim. The timing did make me think that the targetting might be based on genuine information.

Not that I could have justified a personal injury claim as the car was parked and I was in a building on the other side of the road at the time.

It's possible that someone leaked a list of likely candidates, but on the other hand, it's just that kind of coincidence that the scammers rely on for increased credibility. With a large number of claims a day, "your recent accident" is likely to hit quite a few coincidences. Just as the computer scammers are likely to find many people with computers not performing optimally ("computer going slow" isn't necessarily a symptom of a terrible virus which can only be fixed remotely this instant on payment of £££s!).

 

[fishquinn]

If possible I will tell them I will be back soon and put my phone next to a speaker playing Never Gonna Give You Up (I hope everyone here understands the relevance of that )

You really missed a trick by letting everyone know what that link was before they opened it

 

[SteveM70]

I've never been in an accident nor even claimed on car insurance but I regularly receive these calls about the accident I was in

I had a flurry of these calls after a genuine insurance claim. The timing did make me think that the targetting might be based on genuine information

I get quite a lot of these calls, invariably with a pause at the beginning (presumably while the automated dialler locates a human at their end) and always a very well spoken youngish sounding lady with a name like Isabelle or Charlotte.

I haven’t been involved in a car accident for 8 years, but in the 5 years before that I was involved in four, none of which were my fault - reversed into in a car park, bloke shot out of a side road into me, ran over a plank of wood that fell off a pickup in front of me (properly terrifying that one), and a lady in an automatic hire car who forgot to keep her foot on the brake in traffic). To be fair, I was driving 65,000 - 70,000 miles at the time so it’s a numbers game

Anyway I’d always assumed it was insurance companies selling databases.

My stock answers nowadays are normally either “which crash?” or “oh god, please tell me she didn’t die” which ends the call sharpish

My mate Bob takes it a step further and generally makes crude suggestions to them. Each to their own

 

[najaB]

Anyway I’d always assumed it was insurance companies selling databases.

More likely people just playing the numbers game.

 

[DelW]

Just received the HMRC scam call. I didn't answer and an automated voice message was left. As these scammers often do they spoofed a local number to make the call seem legit.

I actually do owe HMRC a small amount outwith PAYE but I have already arranged for the money to be taken out of my pay each money in installments. Plus HMRC never call people unless I am mistaken. They always use snail mail.

The last time I had a call claiming to be from HMRC and telling me I owed them money, it was only a few hours after I'd received and opened a (genuine) letter enclosing a cheque for a tax refund I was owed. Very poor timing by the scammers.

I always try to deal with HMRC by post whenever possible, as that seems to me to be more secure.

 

[stevetay3]

Most seam to be using recorded messages now so you can not tell them to foxtrot Oscar.