A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[JohnMcL7]

I've noticed Amazon are phasing this in more often now and usually when I sign into a browser on a different PC for the first time, it will ask to send a verification code to your phone you need to enter before you can access your account. You're right to question this and make sure not to give the code on your phone to anyone else as the Amazon scammers generate the code by attempting to log into your account then pretending to be Amazon ask you to read them back the code to supposedly verify your identity then use the code to break into your account.

 

[BluePenguin]

I have recently started to become bombarded again by Beneficial who are desperate for me to compete their short lifestyle survey. The caller ID now reports numbers from Manchester instead of London.

I did complete it once and answered all of the questions with no. Over the next few weeks, all of the companies mentioned in the survey started calling to ask me to sign up to their latest offer despite having said I was not interested. Do NOT do this survey thinking they will go away as they won’t. Hang up or face frequent calls long into the future.

Their introduction always includes the line “We tried to call you earlier but you were busy” even though I answered their call earlier on in the day and refused to proceed.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I have recently started to become bombarded again by Beneficial who are desperate for me to compete their short lifestyle survey. The caller ID now reports numbers from Manchester instead of London.

I did complete it once and answered all of the questions with no. Over the next few weeks, all of the companies mentioned in the survey started calling to ask me to sign up to their latest offer despite having said I was not interested. Do NOT do this survey thinking they will go away as they won’t. Hang up or face frequent calls long into the future.

Their introduction always includes the line “We tried to call you earlier but you were busy” even though I answered their call earlier on in the day and refused to proceed.

Beneficial need to be taken before the jury and sent down. You can never tell from which number they will call next. A Google search may reveal a few numbers, and you can block all of those, however that only goes some way.

 

[Typhoon]

Beneficial need to be taken before the jury and sent down.

Can't they be done under the Trades Descriptions Act? (Cambridge Dictionary definition: 'helpful, useful, or good'.)

 

[SteveM70]

Surely they would have left a voicemail? I checked and there are currently no messages pending.

Our surgery’s policy is to never leave voicemails due to patient confidentiality concerns, as they’d have no control over who listened to it. I suppose it should be less of an issue with a mobile rather than a landline, but it does make some sense

 

[DelW]

Our surgery’s policy is to never leave voicemails due to patient confidentiality concerns, as they’d have no control over who listened to it. I suppose it should be less of an issue with a mobile rather than a landline, but it does make some sense

Surely just leaving a message saying "Please could Mr John Smith contact the doctor's surgery on 01234 56789" wouldn't contravene any privacy rules? After all, most modern phones will have a record of the origin of incoming calls anyway, even if unanswered.

I'd prefer a system like that, as I have a policy of letting all landline calls from unrecognised numbers go to the answerphone.

 

[heenan73]

I haven't had the Microsoft scam in years; used to real fun seeing how long I could string them along for.
These days I just get a tape recording telling me I'll be charged for Amazon Prime unless I press "1" and divert the call via Belize to pay £63 per minute. Not been tempted so far, but they do keep trying.

I wish I hadn't bothered with the Telephone Preference Service, because it did absolutely nothing to stop the nuisance calls.

TPS is a scam: it only works for registered companies, so it doesn't stop the real nuisances and 99% of the criminals. And it helps the registered spam callers - they know you aren't interested, so they are saved the cost of that phone call.
Beware of any service recommended by telephone companies (especially BT): they make a huge profit from scam calls, so they really have zero interest in stopping them.

 

[Typhoon]

Surely just leaving a message saying "Please could Mr John Smith contact the doctor's surgery on 01234 56789" wouldn't contravene any privacy rules? After all, most modern phones will have a record of the origin of incoming calls anyway, even if unanswered.

I'd prefer a system like that, as I have a policy of letting all landline calls from unrecognised numbers go to the answerphone.

Surgeries are in a very difficult position here. It is possible for a number of reasons that the intended recipient doesn't want anyone to know about an expected call. A request to call the surgery in the manner described might instill an impression of urgency and seriousness into call, which a withheld number does not, so alarming whoever picks up the call. If the call is taken by another member of the household, a suitably trained receptionist can dismiss the call as being about a routine matter, even if it is not. Wording such as "Please could Mr John Smith contact the doctor's surgery on a routine matter on 01234 56789" would be an improvement but I personally have no problem with withholding the number.

Is there not also a problem that the number you are called on is not necessarily the number, you should call back on so justifying withholding the number. Most practices in the area I live in are group practices, some with small satellite surgeries. They may well want the single line to such a surgery left clear while encouraging patients to call a centralised number.

 

[najaB]

TPS is a scam: it only works for registered companies, so it doesn't stop the real nuisances and 99% of the criminals.

Blame the ICO for that one. They allowed the direct marketers to set up a scheme that has no real teeth.

And it helps the registered spam callers - they know you aren't interested, so they are saved the cost of that phone call.

That's kinda the point. Direct marketing companies don't want to call people who aren't interested, and people who aren't interested don't want the call. It helps both parties - assuming companies play by the rules. Which legitimate companies do and scammers - by definition - do not.

Beware of any service recommended by telephone companies (especially BT): they make a huge profit from scam calls, so they really have zero interest in stopping them.

They really don't. Since the majority of the calls originate off their network they only get a termination fee - which is well under 1p per minute.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Surely just leaving a message saying "Please could Mr John Smith contact the doctor's surgery on 01234 56789" wouldn't contravene any privacy rules?

How would they know if the person ringing back was Mr John Smith, though?

 

[A Challenge]

How would they know if the person ringing back was Mr John Smith, though?

Surely that's no different to me phoning up and saying I'm John Smith anyway?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Surely that's no different to me phoning up and saying I'm John Smith anyway?

Correct, it's not - but a random person pretending to be the patient out of the blue wouldn't be able to say they were calling back in response to a message left at a particular date and time; the same person responding to the answerphone message could be more convincingly specific.

 

[Lucan]

Surely just leaving a message saying "Please could Mr John Smith contact the doctor's surgery on 01234 56789" wouldn't contravene any privacy rules?

Yes it does. The fact that you are needing the doctor at all is something you do not necessarily want others to know. Yes, with some research, someone else could go to the trouble of finding out where the call came from but there is nothing that can be done about that.

TPS is a scam: it only works for registered companies, so it doesn't stop the real nuisances and 99% of the criminals.

At least TPS stops legitimate UK companies from pestering you. There used to be a lot of that - I originally signed up to TPS specifically to stop Everest Double Glazing from phoning me every couple of days; it got rid of Everest, and other cold calls were drastically reduced too. Of course scammers take no notice of TPS, nor do any callers from aboad, legit or not.

In both of the above cases, you cannot expect the precautions to work 100%. Even if something like TPS only works half the time it is an improvement over nothing. It is like with house locks. A determined burglar can get into you house whatever you do to try to stop them, but that is not a reason to leave your front door unlocked. The aim is to make it not worth their bothering.

 

[najaB]

Yes it does. The fact that you are needing the doctor at all is something you do not necessarily want others to know. Yes, with some research, someone else could go to the trouble of finding out where the call came from but there is nothing that can be done about that.

But if the number isn't withheld then it's trivial to figure out where the call came from anyway, even if no message is left. So simply make the message "This is the doctor's surgery. Can you please contact us on xxxxx".

Correct, it's not - but a random person pretending to be the patient out of the blue wouldn't be able to say they were calling back in response to a message left at a particular date and time; the same person responding to the answerphone message could be more convincingly specific.

Doesn't matter. The responsibility still falls on the doctor's surgery to ensure that they person they are speaking with is who they claim to be, so they'll still need to perform the same validation steps as if it was an unprompted call.

 

[heenan73]

Since the majority of the calls originate off their network they only get a termination fee - which is well under 1p per minute.

Sure. But that's pretty much pure profit, and we're talking very large volumes. My point stands.

 

[najaB]

Sure. But that's pretty much pure profit, and we're talking very large volumes. My point stands.

It's not a major source of profit.

(Termination fees pretty much cover costs. The profit is in origination fees.)

 

[DerekC]

I did have a genuine call from my credit card company a few weeks ago, but all they said was that there was a transaction that they wanted to verify (it was a relatively large amount to a new payee), gave me the amount and asked me to call back on the number given on my credit card - which I did using my mobile (the original call having come in on my landline). Then had to go through all the usual security stuff. I am hoping that was pretty fool-proof! Certainly the transaction was genuine and the other transactions on my credit card account are as expected.

 

[najaB]

Then had to go through all the usual security stuff. I am hoping that was pretty fool-proof!

Exactly. Companies (and doctor's surgeries) can leave messages for their customers in a safe manner.

 

[dgl]

Nationwide state that if they ever contact you regarding security then they will include the last four digits of your card so you know it's them, any email correspondence including things like their newsletter will have your postcode included in the email.

 

[Westcountryman]

Had 2 SMS messages from 'Paypal' Quote: 'Paypal: We have limited your account due to safety concerns. please visit https://paypal-user-xxxx.com (left out xxxx to avoid anyone copying) before we are forced to close your account.

The calls came from +447983083576 and from +447398010606. No email though, which I would expect. Again, rather unusual to send a text message from mobile numbers.

I've checked Paypal and there is, unsurprisingly, no issue with the account.

 

[ABB125]

Had 2 SMS messages from 'Paypal' Quote: 'Paypal: We have limited your account due to safety concerns. please visit https://paypal-user-xxxx.com (left out xxxx to avoid anyone copying) before we are forced to close your account.

The calls came from +447983083576 and from +447398010606. No email though, which I would expect. Again, rather unusual to send a text message from mobile numbers.

I've checked Paypal and there is, unsurprisingly, no issue with the account.

I think I had one of those a few months ago (possibly even mentioning it in this thread!). I don't have a PayPal account...

 

[dgl]

Also be aware that since they have allowed other characters to be used in web addresses some scammers will set up websites where the web address uses characters that look the standard alphabet but aren't, i.e. "ЬЬс.со.υк", looks somewhat genuine but s using Cyrillic and Greek characters.

 

[Westcountryman]

A quick warning. We have had so many scam phone calls on our land line that my wife has stopped answering anything that comes up as international. Today the phone rang as 'international' so she disconnected. Then it ran again as 'international' and again she disconnected. Then it ran as 'number withheld'. She answered this time and it turned out to be the doctor who was a little miffed that she had had to call 3 times. She was working from home and calls were being routed via Bristol. Why it was international twice, then number withheld, I have no idea. It indicated why I don't think it is necessarily a good thing to block calls. She will answer from now on and just cut off if it isn't a genuine call.

 

[najaB]

She was working from home and calls were being routed via Bristol. Why it was international twice, then number withheld, I have no idea.

If she's working from home then she might be using a VoIP system rather than a landline, so the switching could be done anywhere in the world depending on who their provider is. That can cause the presentation number to be garbled and come up as either "Unknown" or "International" (meaning "Not on our network") depending on the system.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder why these scam companies who feel that the heavily accented American female recorded voice message is the one to use in scam calls do not realise that type of voice call immediately signifies a warning of scam calls as that particular methodology has now been used for a considerable period of time.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I wonder why these scam companies who feel that the heavily accented American female recorded voice message is the one to use in scam calls do not realise that type of voice call immediately signifies a warning of scam calls as that particular methodology has now been used for a considerable period of time.

Indeed. Or the male voice which is the virtual soundalike of the chap who used to record the old school "Mind the Gap!" announcements on the London Underground.

 

[najaB]

I wonder why these scam companies who feel that the heavily accented American female recorded voice message is the one to use in scam calls do not realise that type of voice call immediately signifies a warning of scam calls as that particular methodology has now been used for a considerable period of time.

Because most text to speech software voices have American accents by default.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Because most text to speech software voices have American accents by default.

That indeed being the case, scam calls of that voice type made to the UK would be something that the criminal minds would surely realise that such a call would stand out like the proverbial "sore thumb". How many of our website members in the UK take calls of that type at work/at home where a female American voice is at the other end of the phone?

 

[najaB]

That indeed being the case, scam calls of that voice type made to the UK would be something that the criminal minds would surely realise that such a call would stand out like the proverbial "sore thumb".

Remember though, they aren't preying on the fastest gazelle in the heard, if you get my drift.

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Just received the below as a text message from +447487558962 (URL deliberately mangled):

GOV-UK: We are issuing a payment of £258.98 to all residents as part of our promise to battle COVID-19. Please visit : http://uk-cvd-19-rebate,co,uk/ to apply.

 

[Statto]

Just got one of those scam texts for tax rebate, dead giveaway it's a scam is the phone number starts +44, i've had a few scam texts for bank, Ebay/Amazon & the like, even had that DVLA £48 rebate scam