Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[31160]

The only booked working is 1P34 (SX) 14:00 ex-Liverpool St but can be hit/miss.

Lovely thanks

 

[samuelmorris]

Any reason why Norwich services seem to be formed of 9-car 755 formations regularly now?

 

[dk1]

Any reason why Norwich services seem to be formed of 9-car 755 formations regularly now?

To allow Stansted Express to return to a 15 minute frequency for 3 hours in the morning peak & 3 hours in the evening peak. Two 755 mainline diagrams exist each weekday.

 

[samuelmorris]

To allow Stansted Express to return to a 15 minute frequency for 3 hours in the morning peak & 3 hours in the evening peak. Two 755 mainline diagrams exist each weekday.

Interesting, wasn't it originally 15 minutes all day? Also, why 3-car units? Would 3x4-car be too long?

 

[dk1]

Interesting, wasn't it originally 15 minutes all day? Also, why 3-car units? Would 3x4-car be too long?

No I think it’s just how the 755s are diagrammed and 4-cars are needed elsewhere. Services such as the 07:26 ex-Norwich are now set down only at Colchester to avoid overcrowding. There were never going to be enough 745s to reliably cover a full Stansted Express & Norwich service but I suppose it looked good on paper.

 

[wls1]

which diagrams are these? im aware of the one that works the 0726 from Norwich but not sure of the other one?

 

[dk1]

which diagrams are these? im aware of the one that works the 0726 from Norwich but not sure of the other one?

06:28 ex-Norwich.

 

[306024]

There were never going to be enough 745s to reliably cover a full Stansted Express & Norwich service but I suppose it looked good on paper.

Depends who was looking at the paper. Looked more like a nightmare to those who understood. The first class product on the Norwich service is now so random if you make a return journey you could easily end up with a standard class train on one leg, making marketing first class a much more difficult job.

 

[47421]

Abellio ordered 10 1st class Stadlers on basis of speeded up timetable 1hr40/45 Norwich LivSt and units diagrammed on a 4hour cycle, so 8 covered base timetable, one peak extra, one spare/maintenance.

The bimode order was to cover extension of all Norwich Camb to Stansted Apt, few East Suffolk extensions to LivSt, hourly Ipswich Peterborough and Norwich Yarmouth half hourly most hours.

Other than extension of some Norwich Camb to Stansted none of the timetable enhancements have been delivered. So there is a permanent shortage of 1st class Stadlers, and many spare bimodes. Using bimodes on Norwich LivSt does make sense, better than being sat spare at Crown Point, but as noted above it means first class offer can’t be consistently delivered.

 

[dk1]

Depends who was looking at the paper. Looked more like a nightmare to those who understood. The first class product on the Norwich service is now so random if you make a return journey you could easily end up with a standard class train on one leg, making marketing first class a much more difficult job.

Probably why it’s never marketed now.

 

[Mikey C]

Abellio ordered 10 1st class Stadlers on basis of speeded up timetable 1hr40/45 Norwich LivSt and units diagrammed on a 4hour cycle, so 8 covered base timetable, one peak extra, one spare/maintenance.

The bimode order was to cover extension of all Norwich Camb to Stansted Apt, few East Suffolk extensions to LivSt, hourly Ipswich Peterborough and Norwich Yarmouth half hourly most hours.

Other than extension of some Norwich Camb to Stansted none of the timetable enhancements have been delivered. So there is a permanent shortage of 1st class Stadlers, and many spare bimodes. Using bimodes on Norwich LivSt does make sense, better than being sat spare at Crown Point, but as noted above it means first class offer can’t be consistently delivered.

It does seem like a waste of Bimodes though, running them under wires the whole way, when they would be really useful elsewhere in the country to replace pure DMUs running partially under wires.

Especially when we have pure electric vehicles with 1st class like the 379s which they dumped, currently gathering dust

 

[StephenHunter]

They have pantographs precisely for this purpose - and it wasn't that long ago that they were running Turbostars under the wires from Norwich to London. Indeed, beyond that with the Crosslink service.

GA got the franchise on the grounds of total fleet replacement, but considering Southern's situation with the need for 30 EMUs, the 379s might end up there.

 

[Mikey C]

They have pantographs precisely for this purpose - and it wasn't that long ago that they were running Turbostars under the wires from Norwich to London. Indeed, beyond that with the Crosslink service.

GA got the franchise on the grounds of total fleet replacement, but considering Southern's situation with the need for 30 EMUs, the 379s might end up there.

But they're also lugging around heavy diesel engines so they can operate away from the wires, not shuttle between Norwich and London.

3*3 units means 4 wasted cabs as well

 

[dk1]

But they're also lugging around heavy diesel engines so they can operate away from the wires, not shuttle between Norwich and London.

3*3 units means 4 wasted cabs as well

That’s made up for with the 745s which came as two 6-car units with only 2 cabs thus saving 40 across the fleet

It was always planned that the 755s would operate to Liverpool Street. Much of the Hitachi fleet across the UK lug around diesel engines. It’s just how it is.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It does seem like a waste of Bimodes though, running them under wires the whole way, when they would be really useful elsewhere in the country to replace pure DMUs running partially under wires.

Especially when we have pure electric vehicles with 1st class like the 379s which they dumped, currently gathering dust

I would play the flexibility card. I suppose it is better to have too many spare Bi-Modes than too many spare Electrics. The Bi-Modes can go anywhere on Anglia. But if there were enough 745s then one of them would be useless as a substitute if there was a shortage of 755s. The main disadvantage of 755s is the lack of first class and walk through capability BUT to avoid that there would be less flexibility. An easier issue to resolve would be making the two sub-fleets of 745s identical - first class with luggage space. The 755s will always be different BUT similar enough.

 

[Railperf]

It does seem like a waste of Bimodes though, running them under wires the whole way, when they would be really useful elsewhere in the country to replace pure DMUs running partially under wires.

Especially when we have pure electric vehicles with 1st class like the 379s which they dumped, currently gathering dust

they are running on electric under the wires - which is a plus. And if anything goes wrong with the power supply - they do have ample diesel power to keep going. I'm not sure the power packs are that heavy though - they are indeed quite light considering a 755/4 4-engined power pack delivers as much power as a HST power car. And the bogies are shared with the adjacent vehicles too!

 

[southern442]

It was always planned that the 755s would operate to Liverpool Street. Much of the Hitachi fleet across the UK lug around diesel engines. It’s just how it is.

Indeed weren't they floating the idea of bringing back London - Lowestoft trains with these units for a while?

 

[dk1]

Indeed weren't they floating the idea of bringing back London - Lowestoft trains with these units for a while?

Yes it was a long forgotten franchise commitment. Four per-day was I think the plan.

 

[AM9]

Yes it was a long forgotten franchise commitment. Four per-day was I think the plan.

Would that be a 4-car train coupling up to another 755 at Ipswich? Even off-peak, line capacity south of Ipswich would be wasted if a single 4-car unit made the long return journey south.

 

[Railperf]

Would that be a 4-car train coupling up to another 755 at Ipswich? Even off-peak, line capacity south of Ipswich would be wasted if a single 4-car unit made the long return journey south.

Yes, that was the plan. I remember the days when a 3-car 170 ran under the wires - packed to the rafters!! That was a waste

 

[dk1]

Would that be a 4-car train coupling up to another 755 at Ipswich? Even off-peak, line capacity south of Ipswich would be wasted if a single 4-car unit made the long return journey south.

I doubt it as that often causes too much delay risk. Would most likely have just been a single unit. Nothing was ever published as to what the workings would have looked like.

Yes, that was the plan. I remember the days when a 3-car 170 ran under the wires - packed to the rafters!! That was a waste

Trouble with this was they replaced the 321 workings & operated the stopping service south of the tunnel. I remember the 15:38 Liverpool St-Lowestoft being so overcrowded a 15:32 Colchester was introduced (previous Ingatestone school starter) and the 15:38 became PU only at stations to Marks Tey.

 

[RailWonderer]

I had the 22:00 Ipswich fast from Liverpool St as a double 755/4 the other day first stop Chelmsford. @dk1 The 755s in double are fine to call at Colchester and even Witham and Chelmsford at less busy times of day.

It does seem like a waste of Bimodes though, running them under wires the whole way, when they would be really useful elsewhere in the country to replace pure DMUs running partially under wires.

Especially when we have pure electric vehicles with 1st class like the 379s which they dumped, currently gathering dust

They run Norwich IC services some days but are also used on the unelectrified Anglia lines so not a waste at all. That is why they are bi modes and not pure DMUs.

Trouble with this was they replaced the 321 workings & operated the stopping service south of the tunnel. I remember the 15:38 Liverpool St-Lowestoft being so overcrowded a 15:32 Colchester was introduced (previous Ingatestone school starter) and the 15:38 became PU only at stations to Marks Tey.

I would always go for the 170 instead of the horribly uncomfortable cramped 321 seats with their rattling jolty ride and probably many did the same.

 

[Class15]

I think the 755 workings to LST should be replaced by 720s which there is going to be a surplus of.

 

[RailWonderer]

I think the 755 workings to LST should be replaced by 720s which there is going to be a surplus of.

No and no, the rock hard seats, narrow aisles and lack of any luggage space makes them not appropriate for the Norwich IC at all.
The 15:30, 16:00 and 18:00 ex-Liverpool St are all 745/1s today with no first but at least they have luggage space and bays free of tables for luggage as well, and a trolley. The narow aisles on the 720s and small vestibules would not allow for any catering either. Keep them on short hop GE services and the WA to bust commuting crowds, that is what they were designed for.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

No and no, the rock hard seats, narrow aisles and lack of any luggage space makes them not appropriate for the Norwich IC at all.
The 15:30, 16:00 and 18:00 ex-Liverpool St are all 745/1s today with no first but at least they have luggage space and bays free of tables for luggage as well, and a trolley. The narow aisles on the 720s and small vestibules would not allow for any catering either. Keep them on short hop GE services and the WA to bust commuting crowds, that is what they were designed for.

Totally agree, if Norwich is to maintain an InterCity type service then there needs to be that demarcation.

 

[dk1]

I think the 755 workings to LST should be replaced by 720s which there is going to be a surplus of.

Norwich & Ipswich drivers do not sign 720s. Better option is to concentrate surplus 720s on the Stansted Express & keep the Stadler fleet close to its only depot which is Crown Point.

Totally agree, if Norwich is to maintain an InterCity type service then there needs to be that demarcation.

Another reason 755s are used is the abundance of tables. Something that causes more complaints than lack of 1st class on the 745/1 fleet when used on Norwich IC services.

 

[lordbusiness]

Agree, the 745/1 are horrible, cheap and nasty trains. I was quite pleased to get 755328 on the 0628 this week - I could actually get some proper work done and have a coffee at the same time unlike a 745/1.

 

[Railperf]

Norwich & Ipswich drivers do not sign 720s. Better option is to concentrate surplus 720s on the Stansted Express & keep the Stadler fleet close to its only depot which is Crown Point.



Another reason 755s are used is the abundance of tables. Something that causes more complaints than lack of 1st class on the 745/1 fleet when used on Norwich IC services.

745's are not really suitable for Stansted services - too few doors and too few luggage racks. The 745/1 is the best version as there are no tables to get in the way of luggage if you sit in the bays nearest the inter-vehicle gangway and furthest away from luggage racks.

 

[dk1]

745's are not really suitable for Stansted services - too few doors and too few luggage racks. The 745/1 is the best version as there are no tables to get in the way of luggage if you sit in the bays nearest the inter-vehicle gangway and furthest away from luggage racks.

In an ideal world I would add first class & tables to all 745/1s (no cafe bar as too expensive) concentrate them all on the GEML then modify a sub-fleet of 720s & dedicate them to Stansted Express. I suppose around 20 or so would be required. Looks like the DfT/GA/Stansted have met & a return to an all day 15min frequency could be on the cards sooner rather than later.

 

[Purple Train]

755408 and a classmate were working the 1500 Liverpool Street-Norwich this afternoon - does having 8/9 coaches vice 12 ever cause crowding issues? The sole time I've been on a GEML 745 it was standing room only from Colchester, so I can't imagine having only 8 coaches would be pleasant.