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Aberdeen to Central Belt Improvements Under Review

clc

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What’s the betting the project will be delayed?

A pledge to cut rail journey times between Aberdeen and the central belt is under review, the SNP transport chief revealed today.

The government had promised in 2016 to reduce journey times for north-east rail passengers heading towards Glasgow and Edinburgh by around 20 minutes.

The £200 million commitment formed part of the Aberdeen City Region Deal and transport chiefs earmarked 2026 for completion of the overall project.

But on Tuesday morning, Transport Secretary Mairi McAllan admitted the project is being reviewed in light of budget pressures, sparking fears of delays.

The latest set-back comes one year since we revealed the project had received only £6.5m of the promised £200m fund – just over 3% of the budget.

Soaring capital costs with rising inflation were blamed but the government repeated its commitment to finishing the scheme on time.

New figures released on Tuesday show that total has increased to £8.7m over the last 12 months, but is still a fraction of the overall committed.

Ms McAllan told MSPs the government is “utterly committed” to the project but is “constrained” by cuts of almost 10% in its capital budget over the next five years.

Asked about how the government can be committed to the project if it is now under review, Ms McAllan said: “It’s not the case that you’re committed to it and it happens or you’re not committed to it.

“When budgets are constrained, it’s only right that you consider the time over which projects can be completed.”

continues: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...ics/6357229/aberdeen-rail-central-belt-times/
 
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hexagon789

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They could cut some time now, just by removing a lot of the excessive pathing time in some of the schedules.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
Another SNP transport project that derails, sinks or grinds to a shuddering stop
Vets on the electrification being cut back to Dundee or Perth indefinitely and possibly even the replacement of rolling stock scale down?

I do feel sorry for all the individuals and businesses who have been promised the earth and are again not going to get it
 

class26

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At this rate we will still be using dirty old diesel trains in 30 years.
did anyone every think otherwise ? Any government can pass a law saying no diesels after 2040 but then to totally ignore their own law and do virtually no forward preparation for this and actually continue buying diesel trains shows us 2040 is pie in the sky as is probably 2050, 2060 ...........
Unless there is a radical change very, very soon
 

Bantamzen

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did anyone every think otherwise ? Any government can pass a law saying no diesels after 2040 but then to totally ignore their own law and do virtually no forward preparation for this and actually continue buying diesel trains shows us 2040 is pie in the sky as is probably 2050, 2060 ...........
Unless there is a radical change very, very soon
2040 was wildly ambitious to say the least, and even then was a target rather than a law as far as I remember. Considering that the ban on sales of ICE cars has been pushed back to 2035, its really not going to be a surprise when DMUs are still operating well into the 2040s and maybe the 2050s.
 

Blindtraveler

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Completely agree, and it's even less of a surprise given that the Scottish government, in control of largely the same bunch of clueless Jokers for the last 16 and a half years couldn't organize a shopping trip in Tesco's never mind major transport projects that all just goes spectacularly wrong, I mean look at the success rate, ships that don't sail and trunk roads that don't get upgraded and a fleet of 40 year old trains that were broken when they arrived but yet we're still forced into service and became even more broken, I call it disgusting giving the amount of public money that's been thrown at all of this and I'm not saying any other government is perfect but it is perfectly possible to roll out major projects and not get them so hopelessly wrong
 

gomango

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Another SNP transport project that derails, sinks or grinds to a shuddering stop
Vets on the electrification being cut back to Dundee or Perth indefinitely and possibly even the replacement of rolling stock scale down?

I do feel sorry for all the individuals and businesses who have been promised the earth and are again not going to get it
Where does it say that there no longer electrifying it? I thought that was one of the SNP's priorities on the railway.
 

John Bishop

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Where does it say that there no longer electrifying it? I thought that was one of the SNP's priorities on the railway.
It’s just another “Jam tomorrow“ policy promise that will just keep slipping and slipping. And yet we continue to operate Victorian era infrastructure day in day out with no end in sight. It’s embarrassing to say the least.
 

hexagon789

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Indeed. I did wonder why we sat at Perth for 15 minutes on this Glasgow to Aberdeen run the other week.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W54128/2024-01-27/detailed#allox_id=0
It's generally worse with the Inverness services, but some Aberdeens too.

Between Stirling and Perth its the loss of Bridge of Allan, Dunblane and Gleneagles stops.

Some Aberdeens have also lost calls between Montrose and Aberdeen, the 0941 takes 2h59 to Aberdeen from Glasgow yet makes only 5 calls. The following 1041 is faster, despite picking up the local Tayside stops of one of the cancelled Dundee-Arbroath shuttles.

There are also a number of services booked to dwell at Perth for 10 mins or more in one or the other direction. The 'Fit for the Future' timetable is full of similar "fudges".
 

Tayway

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The ScotRail timetable is full of unnecessary pathing time, random stopping patterns and hourly fluctuations in departure time. I'm not sure if they just don't have the resources to fix it, or don't see improving journey times/service regularity as a priority. They manage it fine for the most part in Strathclyde – for instance there's a train every 10 minutes through Glasgow Central low level all day with the same half-hourly pattern – but not on the longer distance routes.
 

InOban

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Posters should remember that there are three major constraints on the timetable. Two are the single track sections from Perth over the Tay, and between Usan and Montrose. The latter in particular, with two trains each way every hour, must be occupied for much of the time.

The third constraint is at Dunblane and is I believe being finally eliminated this weekend. Until now the half-hourly terminating trains from Edinburgh had to reverse by running forward on the down line before returning via the crossover to access the up platform. As a result the through lines were occupied for at least 13 minutes of each half hour. A new crossover on the Stirling side is being commissioned which will mean that all these trains will arrive and depart from third platform on the West side of the station.

I assume that the business case for this long overdue work would include the ability to redesign the timetable. We will see.
 
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There are schedules that look like they have lots of padding but the schedules are fitted around rarely-running longstanding freight paths that require to be honoured.
 

Waverleystu

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Without getting too political it feels like there is no real interest in upgrading rail infrastructure including electrification outside of the central belt. Dundee and Aberdeen have been promised electrification for decades but in reality nothing has materialised and almost every line in the central belt has been electrified. £200m promised along with electrification and barely a penny spent is a disgrace and frankly looks like it was all an empty promise from the SNP. We live in hope up outside the belt but I doubt Dundee and Aberdeen will see electrification or any improvement in this decade or the next
 

The exile

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Without getting too political it feels like there is no real interest in upgrading rail infrastructure including electrification outside of the central belt. Dundee and Aberdeen have been promised electrification for decades but in reality nothing has materialised and almost every line in the central belt has been electrified. £200m promised along with electrification and barely a penny spent is a disgrace and frankly looks like it was all an empty promise from the SNP. We live in hope up outside the belt but I doubt Dundee and Aberdeen will see electrification or any improvement in this decade or the next
The problem is that the further you get from the core (wherever that core is - be it Central Scotland, Birmingham, Cardiff, London etc), the less likely it is that the “electrification” boxes get ticked (high frequency, frequent stops, population affected by diesel fumes etc) - so it’s easier for some to try to make political capital by calling it a waste of money.
Edinburgh - Montrose probably does / could tick those boxes- but with several major infrastructure headaches to deal with - not to mention “all or nothing” politicians.
 
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snowball

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If, as some posters above are apparently suggesting, the Scottish government is not seriously interested in electrifying to Aberdeen, one has to ask why it is that preliminary planning applications were submitted to all the local authorities between Dunblane and Aberdeen in 2022, and in 2023, two overbridges near Inverkeilor were rebuilt, and two more demolished without replacement.
 

DynamicSpirit

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The third constraint is at Dunblane and is I believe being finally eliminated this weekend. Until now the half-hourly terminating trains from Edinburgh had to reverse by running forward on the down line before returning via the crossover to access the up platform. As a result the through lines were occupied for at least 13 minutes of each half hour. A new crossover on the Stirling side is being commissioned which will mean that all these trains will arrive and depart from third platform on the West side of the station.

Interesting. Out of interest, from the point of view of minimising conflicting moves and therefore maximising timetable flexibility, wouldn't it have made more sense to use the 3rd platform for Northbound through trains, so the terminating trains could terminate between the two through running lines?
 

louis97

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Interesting. Out of interest, from the point of view of minimising conflicting moves and therefore maximising timetable flexibility, wouldn't it have made more sense to use the 3rd platform for Northbound through trains, so the terminating trains could terminate between the two through running lines?
There isn't really the space to allow for this, you'd need space for both a faster turnout and to allow an up departure from the middle platform to simultaneously occur with an arrival/pass at the loop (3rd) platform. If you did this without these changes every non-stop train that uses the loop platform would have to slow to 15 mph to pass through the station and you'd still have the clash with an up departure from the middle platform. The line speed through the two other platforms is 75mph.
 

Waverleystu

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If, as some posters above are apparently suggesting, the Scottish government is not seriously interested in electrifying to Aberdeen, one has to ask why it is that preliminary planning applications were submitted to all the local authorities between Dunblane and Aberdeen in 2022, and in 2023, two overbridges near Inverkeilor were rebuilt, and two more demolished without replacement.
I take your point but £200m promised and all that’s happened is a track realignment near Perth, a couple of disused overbridges demolished and two rebuilt in 8 years! Network rail have been clearing disused bridges across the U.K. for some time now and renewals is usually down to poor condition or strengthening too. There’s now a huge gulf between the Central belt and the railways north of the Forth. No new stock ordered, Dalmeny Electrification ditched and £6-8 million spent from a promised £200 million speaks volumes for a lack of commitment all the while a rolling programme of Electrification across the Central belt continues
 

The exile

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If, as some posters above are apparently suggesting, the Scottish government is not seriously interested in electrifying to Aberdeen, one has to ask why it is that preliminary planning applications were submitted to all the local authorities between Dunblane and Aberdeen in 2022, and in 2023, two overbridges near Inverkeilor were rebuilt, and two more demolished without replacement.
Well - you could pose the same question about all the works done between Chippenham and Filton 10 or so years ago. OK - not in Scotland….
 

Carntyne

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I take your point but £200m promised and all that’s happened is a track realignment near Perth, a couple of disused overbridges demolished and two rebuilt in 8 years! Network rail have been clearing disused bridges across the U.K. for some time now and renewals is usually down to poor condition or strengthening too. There’s now a huge gulf between the Central belt and the railways north of the Forth. No new stock ordered, Dalmeny Electrification ditched and £6-8 million spent from a promised £200 million speaks volumes for a lack of commitment all the while a rolling programme of Electrification across the Central belt continues
Potentially time to stop voting for a government that has run out of road. A shake up of Transport Scotland wouldn't go amiss either.
 

Railsigns

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I take your point but £200m promised and all that’s happened is a track realignment near Perth, a couple of disused overbridges demolished and two rebuilt in 8 years!
That may be all that's happened on the ground, but design work has been ongoing for a while now, for signalling at least. Construction can't take place without the necessary designs being complete.
 

InOban

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Potentially time to stop voting for a government that has run out of road. A shake up of Transport Scotland wouldn't go amiss either.
I can't see any other ScoGov spending more.

Actually they are quite sensible to focus investment on the Central Belt because that where traffic flows are large enough for rail to be an essential mode of transport.
 

lachlan

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I can't see any other ScoGov spending more.

Actually they are quite sensible to focus investment on the Central Belt because that where traffic flows are large enough for rail to be an essential mode of transport.
Rail is as essential in the north as it is in the central belt. FWIW the roads in the central belt are better than those in the north too
 

Waverleystu

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It’s not about spending more as such, the £200m was announced and never delivered. It is sensible to focus investment on the Central belt but it shouldn’t all be focused on that area. Aberdeen and Dundee are important cities with sizeable populations
 

Carntyne

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I can't see any other ScoGov spending more.

Actually they are quite sensible to focus investment on the Central Belt because that where traffic flows are large enough for rail to be an essential mode of transport.
No mention of spending in my post. More around the inability to deliver without confusion, delay and costs soaring. The common denominator in this is Transport Scotland, whichever transport mode is involved.
 

The exile

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No mention of spending in my post. More around the inability to deliver without confusion, delay and costs soaring. The common denominator in this is Transport Scotland, whichever transport mode is involved.
They’re hardly unique in this - even if they are to blame. Think the involvement of Transport Scotland in Hinkley Point C, Stuttgart 21, Berlin Brandenburg Airport et al is precisely zero.
 

lachlan

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They’re hardly unique in this - even if they are to blame. Think the involvement of Transport Scotland in Hinkley Point C, Stuttgart 21, Berlin Brandenburg Airport et al is precisely zero.
One only has to look across the border at HS2, or closer to me, the GWR electrification programme.

It seems the common denominator is infrastructure in the UK
 

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