GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I hope the moderators dont mind but I thought this deserved its own thread. Reopening the old GWML electrification thread would be tediously long.
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Acton Main Line to Acton Wells Jct electrification
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Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Incredible this wasn’t done years ago. Does this mean we could see electric freight on the great western?
87015
Established Member
This is HS2 funded to get round issues with Old Oak blockade and Crossrail units, expect it’ll be barely used. Is even Acton Yard wired?
Years ago there was such little electrification there wasn't any need to do it. At the moment you'll still need last mile capability for most things to have an electric on the front so that's 88s, 93s or 99s only.
The issue with electric freight has always been live wires in terminals and therefore the need to shunt, change locos, or have a backup power for the main loco. Having on-site shunters is only economic for the busiest terminals, changing locos is an absolute pain and also expensive, and having backup power tbh removes the need for freight to have short gaps wired. This project is for the class 345s when OOC blockade is on.
Acton Yard is not currently wired - the limit of electrification is the west end junction. With last-mile gaining traction (sorry for the pun) the value of wiring yards and sidings is decreasing, IMO.
The Planner
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Its tied into Acton East S&C renewal, so the OLE needs to aligned with any track realignment. That doesn't happen until next year, so that is why it is taking longer.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
So this is to allow 345s to reach the NLL so they can access the GE main line and Ilford depot during the blocks?
By itself it won't allow 80x trains to reach Euston on electric, so they will have to use diesel for the last lap.
That would need a similar length of wiring in Willesden SW sidings, which is not planned.
There will also still be a similar gap in the wiring from Acton Wells Jn via Acton Canal Wharf Jn for trains heading to/from the country end of the WCML.
This is reminiscent of the 9-mile Crewe-Kidsgrove wiring in 2002 (allegedly Labour's only electrification completed during its 1997-2010 term).
That certainly proved invaluable for the WCRM project and since, in regular service.
By itself it won't allow 80x trains to reach Euston on electric, so they will have to use diesel for the last lap.
That would need a similar length of wiring in Willesden SW sidings, which is not planned.
There will also still be a similar gap in the wiring from Acton Wells Jn via Acton Canal Wharf Jn for trains heading to/from the country end of the WCML.
This is reminiscent of the 9-mile Crewe-Kidsgrove wiring in 2002 (allegedly Labour's only electrification completed during its 1997-2010 term).
That certainly proved invaluable for the WCRM project and since, in regular service.
Well that‘s not true, as the Willesden City Lines were electrified in 1999.
(And that leaves to one side electrification of HS1
)AIUI There are some particualrly complicated sectioning arrangements required on Acton bank; for obvious reasons.
It will be interesting to see what actually uses the wires other than occasional ECS.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I think I was quoting one George Osborne, who used it to compare with his 2012 HLOS plans for mega-wiring - much of it paused/scrapped of course.
Airdrie-Bathgate was also wired in the "Labour" period, but it was hardly down to their DfT.
The Planner
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HS2 are paying for this, GWR into Euston was a much later idea by the TOC. There is little chance of South West Sidings and down to Willesden No.7 being done.
The Acton Wells wiring is also one of the Freight Electrification proposals. If part of it is done for HS2 diversions etc., then there is less to do for the complete freight scheme (although what might use it?). If there are also early S&C renewals, then so much the better.
WAO
WAO
oglord
Member
London Gateway/Felixstowe -> Wentloog? With the obvious caveat of either end not being electrified.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Both fill in schemes were "ideas" in 1998 or so - part funded by Crossrail (1) , and also Eurostar back in the day. Relatively modest too back in the day. All done for "flexibility" , but alas we know what happened to these options.
59CosG95
Established Member
ISTR that *some* OLE structures were installed within the yard, and some others (portals mainly) extend over the Mains/Reliefs into the yard; I believe these were part of the Acton Dive-Under works to facilitate the Elizabeth Line. None of the standalone structures have any small part steelwork on them, and the "shared" portals only have equipment up and registered over the Mains & Reliefs.
I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the two reception lines nearest to Acton ML get wired, if only to prevent the crossover immediately east of the station becoming a pinch-point in the event of disruption.
As @Bald Rick and @The Planner both say, this is mainly for ECS purposes, so I don't think the connections to the WCML, Chiltern ML or Midland ML (the latter two via Dudding Hill) will be wired up - although if any of those were, it would be a very pleasant surprise!
Doctor Fegg
Established Member
Plus a scheme advanced by BAA at the time for a Heathrow Express service via Dudding Hill to St Pancras.
starlight73
Member
the network rail document linked up thread says this, so you seem to be right:
The Poplar lines seem to be considered to start from Poplar Junction, which is the yard’s western entrance (which is probably what the document means by Acton West Junction?) - see Open Railway Map
Acton West Junction is the junction with the GWML relief lines. Acton East junction is the crossover from the Up relief to the poplars.
The fact it says specifically Poplar lines and does not mention any Acton Yard lines indicates to me it will not wire any sidings. But I could be wrong, as I've only got whatever has been made public to go on.
td97
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Same is true of Ordsall Chord!
rower40
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It permits Heathrow to Stansted by EMU.
59CosG95
Established Member
It certainly does, in theory. I don't believe there'd be the paths for it in practice though!
The Planner
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As its HS2 funded, I very much doubt the yard will be touched.
I must have dreamt going Ordsall round it in an EMU…
You can already do Heathrow to Stansted by EMU, you just have to change at Liverpool St.
Assuming you meant direct, though, it would be by a rather roundabout route to say the least! And about 2hrs, if you could line the paths up on three of the busiest stretches of line in the country.
Gosh, i remember reading about that and thinking "Why???"
starlight73
Member
for context, this is Acton West Junction - this is where where the Up/Down Goods lines (aka the Poplar lines) start.
(Screenshot showing a track diagram of Acton west junction. from RAIB accident report: Collision between a passenger train and two rail-mounted grinding machines at Acton West 24 June 2008, page 8. Crown Copyright, document says reuse is permitted)
(Screenshot showing a track diagram of Acton west junction. from RAIB accident report: Collision between a passenger train and two rail-mounted grinding machines at Acton West 24 June 2008, page 8. Crown Copyright, document says reuse is permitted)
starlight73
Member
Fair point! I was trying to convince myself that I’ve got the right location as Acton West junction doesn’t appear on Open Railway Map!
I did wonder about this, as well as the "Wineliner" service if it is still running. Granted, the latter would have to change locos in Stoke Gifford yard, but that shouldn't be a problem for Freightliner.
It's funded by the DfT not HS2.
Correct.
RL1 - RL3 won't be electrified.
Acton East S&C Renewal ties into it but is not the be all and end all constraining delivery.
Acton ML to Acton Wells junction only needs electrifying for eastbound electric trains. 
Westbound electric trains don't need OLE - they can coast down grade.
Some economy possibilities there surely to please the DfT bean counting mandarins.
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A similar short inter London line that needs OLE linking is Carlton road Jn to Junction Road Jn; as well as potential for other traffic some use could be an alternative route (e.g. blocked core disruption) for stock moves between Cricklewood and Hornsey - there are no electrified lines connecting TL north of STP with anything else. Indeed back in FCC days when the TL depot strategy was still being planned, Hornsey at one point was lined up as the major depot before 3hree Bridges, with FCC promoting / sponsoring wiring it.
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Isn't the Ince Moss Chord (Bamfurlong Sdgs Jn to Ince Moss Jn) in a similar state - no electric trains bar the occasional ECS. I not trawled anything anywhere to determine if there are any electric workings over it.
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Where do you end with OLE linking airports though ? Why just "London" airports ?
Wiring Dudding Hill to Acton Wells connecting at Acton Canel Wharf Jn adds you BHX, MAN, LPL into all that lot, all by electric train.
But the practical use of any of this is what ?
If one wants to link up airports by rail, cut air CO2 emissions etc, HS2 would logically have a LHR branch, which is far more value.
Westbound electric trains don't need OLE - they can coast down grade.
Some economy possibilities there surely to please the DfT bean counting mandarins.
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A similar short inter London line that needs OLE linking is Carlton road Jn to Junction Road Jn; as well as potential for other traffic some use could be an alternative route (e.g. blocked core disruption) for stock moves between Cricklewood and Hornsey - there are no electrified lines connecting TL north of STP with anything else. Indeed back in FCC days when the TL depot strategy was still being planned, Hornsey at one point was lined up as the major depot before 3hree Bridges, with FCC promoting / sponsoring wiring it.
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Not sure, not checked, you used to be able to, I'm sure I've done a 319 over it. But do not think you can now by EMU.
Isn't the Ince Moss Chord (Bamfurlong Sdgs Jn to Ince Moss Jn) in a similar state - no electric trains bar the occasional ECS. I not trawled anything anywhere to determine if there are any electric workings over it.
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Where do you end with OLE linking airports though ? Why just "London" airports ?
Wiring Dudding Hill to Acton Wells connecting at Acton Canel Wharf Jn adds you BHX, MAN, LPL into all that lot, all by electric train.
But the practical use of any of this is what ?
If one wants to link up airports by rail, cut air CO2 emissions etc, HS2 would logically have a LHR branch, which is far more value.
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