Advance single to Mcr Picc - Alight at Oxford Rd?

[kermit]

I haven't yet picked up my actual travel ticket, but if it says "Manchester Piccadilly" as my destination, must I stay on the train rather than alight at Manchester Oxford Road, as I would now prefer? And if the ticket actually says "Manchester Stations", will that make a difference? Thanks!

 

[L401CJF]

Advance tickets are only valid to and from the origin and destination on the ticket, there have been cases where people have been caught by revenue protection etc for boarding a stop later/alighting a stop earlier and further action taken.

If however the ticket has Manchester Stations as the destination then I would assume it is valid to either MCO/MAN.

 

[158801]

I would say that this depends upon your journey.

If you are travelling from the south (let's say Crewe) then I would say "no" as you are travelling further than your ticket allows.

If you are travelling from the North/West and the train calls at Oxford Rd before Piccadilly then I can't see a problem

 

[Watershed]

I haven't yet picked up my actual travel ticket, but if it says "Manchester Piccadilly" as my destination, must I stay on the train rather than alight at Manchester Oxford Road, as I would now prefer? And if the ticket actually says "Manchester Stations", will that make a difference? Thanks!

Advance tickets are only valid in accordance with the itinerary shown on the ticket. Accordingly, you must use it to the station you've booked - and if your train comes to Manchester Piccadilly from the south, you would be overtravelling by continuing to Oxford Road. This could constitute an offence, depending on the circumstances.

However, if your train comes into Piccadilly from the north, then you are merely performing a break of journey where not permitted. The penalty for this is to have to pay the excess to the cheapest valid ticket that permits break of journey, i.e. the Off-Peak/Anytime (Day) Single (depending on time of day).

In practice it's unlikely there would be an issue either way, as the barriers do not read the reservations/itinerary but simply look at the ticket origin/destination. But there are almost always Northern revenue protection staff at both Oxford Road - so if your ticket is rejected by the barriers for any reason, and the barrier staff don't let you through, you may enter the web of Northern's hard-line revenue protection processes.

The safest option would be able to obtain a voucher for your booking under the Book with Confidence scheme*, and then use this rebook to Oxford Road. Of course if you bought your Advance a while ago, the new ticket might cost a lot more...

*NB some retailers such as TrainSplit do it slightly differently, giving you a refund of your old booking when you make a new one for the same journey - so this wouldn't work in that case.

 

[kermit]

Thanks for the replies! I'll be travelling from Carlisle, and changing on to a Northern stopping service from Preston. So I could buy an anytime single from Salford Crescent to Oxford Road (seems no advance tickets are available) and stay within the law for £3.10? (sigh - why do our complicated fare systems allow the railway effectively to imprison me on a train all the way to my originally selected destination, on pain of criminal prosecution??)...

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for the replies! I'll be travelling from Carlisle, and changing on to a Northern stopping service from Preston. So I could buy an anytime single from Salford Crescent to Oxford Road (seems no advance tickets are available) and stay within the law for £3.10? (sigh - why do our complicated fare systems allow the railway effectively to imprison me on a train all the way to my originally selected destination, on pain of criminal prosecution??)...

Buying an Anytime Single from Salford Crescent will probably avoid problems in practice, but legally speaking you are still breaking your journey (where not permitted) at Salford Crescent if you rely on that ticket to exit at Oxford Road.

It's not an offence to get off early - it merely means that you are liable to pay an excess fare. But I agree, it's a restriction that is largely unenforceable and simply shouldn't exist.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Won't the ticket say Manchester Stations?

 

[BRM]

What about buying a Piccadilly to Oxford Road single, and either making use of it to travel back on yourself (a longer journey time) or just to exit Oxford Road?

 

[Watershed]

Won't the ticket say Manchester Stations?

Yes, but the itinerary/reservations will show that the train is booked to Piccadilly, not Oxford Rd.

 

[185143]

I'd like to see a judge convicting someone with a ticket to Manchester Stations, alighting at a station within the Manchester Stations group. I'd hope it'd be (rightly) laughed out of court should Northern's prosecutions team try it.

This is quite different in my opinion to someone using (say) an advance from London to Manchester to alight at Crewe. I appreciate the reservation says Manchester Piccadilly, but if the ticket says Manchester Stations then I really see no issue with alighting at Oxford Road. Manchester Piccadilly exists as a destination, but the industry (presumably) in such a case has chosen to issue the ticket as Manchester Stations?

 

[Haywain]

I'd like to see a judge convicting someone with a ticket to Manchester Stations, alighting at a station within the Manchester Stations group. I'd hope it'd be (rightly) laughed out of court should Northern's prosecutions team try it.

This is quite different in my opinion to someone using (say) an advance from London to Manchester to alight at Crewe. I appreciate the reservation says Manchester Piccadilly, but if the ticket says Manchester Stations then I really see no issue with alighting at Oxford Road. Manchester Piccadilly exists as a destination, but the industry (presumably) in such a case has chosen to issue the ticket as Manchester Stations?

It is slightly complicated by the fact that if the journey requested was to Manchester stations, the reservation would be issued to Piccadilly by default, so there is a reasonable argument that you get a reservation for something that was not specifically requested and therefore should not be obliged to undertake in full.

 

[185143]

It is slightly complicated by the fact that if the journey requested was to Manchester stations, the reservation would be issued to Piccadilly by default, so there is a reasonable argument that you get a reservation for something that was not specifically requested and therefore should not be obliged to undertake in full.

I didn't know that, although it makes sense.

In which case I stand even firmer by my previous post.

A few years ago, I travelled down to Stockport from Manchester Oxford Road one day with a valid season as far as Manchester Stations and a Virgin Trains only single to Stockport. That was issued as "Manchester Stations" and worked the barriers at MCO. Despite it not being valid on any service from that station. I only used that ticket to enter as it was easier than getting my season ticket out, having just bought it from the TVM outside. So I'd be pretty confident the OPs ticket would work the barrier no problem

 

[Watershed]

I'd like to see a judge convicting someone with a ticket to Manchester Stations, alighting at a station within the Manchester Stations group. I'd hope it'd be (rightly) laughed out of court should Northern's prosecutions team try it.

This is quite different in my opinion to someone using (say) an advance from London to Manchester to alight at Crewe. I appreciate the reservation says Manchester Piccadilly, but if the ticket says Manchester Stations then I really see no issue with alighting at Oxford Road. Manchester Piccadilly exists as a destination, but the industry (presumably) in such a case has chosen to issue the ticket as Manchester Stations?

Again, it's not a question of committing a criminal offence. It's a matter of a disproportionate excess being due.

The reason why the ticket will have been defined to Manchester Stations is for the convenience of the retail/commercial department at the relevant TOC. It may well have TOC restrictions that mean it's impossible to use at all Manchester Stations!

It is slightly complicated by the fact that if the journey requested was to Manchester stations, the reservation would be issued to Piccadilly by default, so there is a reasonable argument that you get a reservation for something that was not specifically requested and therefore should not be obliged to undertake in full.

I would have thought that tickets would normally be issued to the first location the train calls at within the group, seeing as this will produce the fastest itinerary.

 

[kermit]

What about buying a Piccadilly to Oxford Road single, and either making use of it to travel back on yourself (a longer journey time) or just to exit Oxford Road?

Thanks for the idea! Brings my "insurance cost" down from £3.10 (anytime single Salford Crescent to Mcr Oxford Rd) to £2.60 (Picc to Ox Rd). And thanks for the further observations and suggestions! I think in reality, when I get to print my travel ticket out, if it says "Manchester Stations" I will simply alight at Oxford Road, if it specifies Piccadilly I will buy another ticket, probably from Salford. And I know that the team on the forum will have my back when I'm up before the beak!

 

[Haywain]

I would have thought that tickets would normally be issued to the first location the train calls at within the group, seeing as this will produce the fastest itinerary.

On the booking sites I've looked at selecting Manchester Stations or Manchester (Any) will default to either Victoria or Piccadilly.

 

[kermit]

On the booking sites I've looked at selecting Manchester Stations or Manchester (Any) will default to either Victoria or Piccadilly.

Does that imply that as far as "The Railway" is concerned (forgive me for not knowing which bit of Hogwarts is responsible for this), Oxford Road is not in Manchester?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that imply that as far as "The Railway" is concerned (forgive me for not knowing which bit of Hogwarts is responsible for this), Oxford Road is not in Manchester?

It's not the station most people want. Those who do want it know to specify it.

 

[Haywain]

Does that imply that as far as "The Railway" is concerned (forgive me for not knowing which bit of Hogwarts is responsible for this), Oxford Road is not in Manchester?

No, because Oxford Road is part of 'Manchester Stations'.

 

[kermit]

....and I suppose Miles Platting would be out of the question.....

 

[jamiearmley]

Advance singles are always to a specific station, never a station group.

Good idea to get a covering single, i would certainly advise it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Advance singles are always to a specific station, never a station group.

The actual ticket is very often issued to a station group, but with a reservation to the specific station. It depends how the fares are set up in the database.

 

[jamiearmley]

The actual ticket is very often issued to a station group, but with a reservation to the specific station. It depends how the fares are set up in the database.

I stand corrected

Let me alter that then : I've never seen a advance single ticket with a printed destination other than a specific station..

 

[Watershed]

....and I suppose Miles Platting would be out of the question.....

Well the fact that the station closed 27 years ago certainly doesn't help!

I stand corrected

Let me alter that then : I've never seen a advance single ticket with a printed destination other than a specific station..

I'm not entirely surprised by that, given your route card

 

[jamiearmley]

Well the fact that the station closed 27 years ago certainly doesn't help!


I'm not entirely surprised by that, given your route card

Ha ha, you have a point!!

 

[Starmill]

Won't the ticket say Manchester Stations?

I stand corrected

Let me alter that then : I've never seen a advance single ticket with a printed destination other than a specific station..

If a ticket is AP Northern Only it will not use a station group. They have specifically set them to named stations.

Until around 2015, you would essentially never see any ticket to a named station within a station group unless it was from another station in the same group. Of course, back then, there were next to no Ap Northern Only tickets, it was still only Newcastle - Carlisle and a tiny number of other routes.

What was previously unheard of has only recently become commonplace.

The actual ticket is very often issued to a station group, but with a reservation to the specific station. It depends how the fares are set up in the database.

Indeed. And until recently, this was the only option.

 

[kermit]

Thanks again for all the input. It says something about the complexity of the ticketing system that the level of expertise on this forum still produces such a diversity of information. Looking like the anytime single from Picc to Oxford Rd is the answer, I might even stay on the damn train and then trundle back the way I came. Or, depending on the weather, i could walk. But it is Manchester, and the forecast, surprisingly, is damp!

 

[xotGD]

Stay on to Pic and get the free bus back to Ox Rd?

 

[hermit]

The actual ticket is very often issued to a station group, but with a reservation to the specific station. It depends how the fares are set up in the database.

Indeed. If you buy an advance single from SWR stations to London you will be issued with a ticket to ’London terminals’ and a seat ‘reservation’ to Waterloo - that is, if you get a paper ticket. E-tickets are issued to a specific station.

I used such .a ticket from Bournemouth this week to double back to Vauxhall (another ’London terminal’. The barrier at Waterloo jibbed at it, but that at Vauxhall accepted it.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Indeed. If you buy an advance single from SWR stations to London you will be issued with a ticket to ’London terminals’ and a seat ‘reservation’ to Waterloo - that is, if you get a paper ticket. E-tickets are issued to a specific station.

I used such .a ticket from Bournemouth this week to double back to Vauxhall (another ’London terminal’. The barrier at Waterloo jibbed at it, but that at Vauxhall accepted it.

It's not quite that simple, in LNER's case flexible tickets to London are priced to London Terminals whereas Advance are priced to London Kings Cross. It all depends how the flows have been set up.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Idiotic restriction! If your ticket shows “Manchester Stations” as a destination, print out a detailed itinerary showing all the station calls, adjusting the print size so that the last station on the list scrolls over onto the next sheet of paper, which you then discard. (Half joking).