Advance Tickets Between Cambridge and King's Cross?

[Hejaz]

Hi there,

I'm trying to understand what the cheapest journey for a direct train from Cambridge (CBG) to King's Cross (KGX) would be.

I don't have a particular date, day or time-of-day in mind for this question but do often make the journey from Cambridge to London on weekday afternoons. Going to KGX appears to require an anytime single ticket and I am curious as to whether cheaper tickets are available.

BRfares seems to show that advance tickets between these stations do exist in the fares database see here and here but also says that the existence of a fare in the fares database doesn't guarantee that the ticket is actually available.

Would appreciate some pointers on how I discover whether this fare is available and, if so, when it is available. Thanks for your time.

P.S. I appreciate that advance tickets between Cambridge and Liverpool Street exist (which is my usual journey) but occasionally it would be useful to get the "fast train" to KGX instead. I have also seen "advance tickets" which take the Greater Anglia to Tottenham Hale and change trains there.

P.P.S. I do also hold a 26-30 railcard but that probably doesn't impact the answer to this question.

Sorry for the double-post; I could not see how to edit.

On reflection, I think some context around " do often make the journey from Cambridge to London on weekday afternoons" would be useful.

Specifically, I often travel from London to Cambridge in the morning and back in the afternoon on the occasional weekday.

Currently, I always do this by buying two advance singles between Liverpool Street and Cambridge as it's significantly cheaper than an anytime day return.

There are occasional when it would be more convenient to go to King's Cross when returning to London via the "fast train" so that I can get to West London at an earlier time for some commitments.

To give a specific journey on a specific date, consider Thursday 1 May.
I could take the 08:03 from LST to CBG (arriving 09:08) for £5.30 (advance single with railcard)
I could (and likely would) take the 14:03 from CBG to LST (arriving 15:15) for £5.30.
So the total journey cost is £10.60.

It'd be slightly more convenient to be able to take the 14:14 from CBG to KGX (arriving 15:02) due to another commitment in West London at 16:00.

I think the only ticket for that journey is an anytime single at £21.20. There don't appear to be any off-peak or super off-peak singles in the fares database for that train but want to double check that it can't be made more cheaply.

I hope this also explains why I don't want to take the "slow train" to KGX nor the route involving the Great Anglia up to Tottenham Hale - as, in both cases, I may as well get an advance single to LST and take the tube to my actual destination.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[gpmartin]

Not an Advance ticket but you may find a carnet of five Off Peak singles from Cambridge to King's Cross, valid for three months, a useful alternative. £15 single, which is especially good value as you cannot buy a single single ticket on its own. I'm not sure whether they're eligible for Railcard discounts, though.

 

[Same_Promo3006]

You mention the 26 30 Railcard.
Just be aware of the restrictions with the Railcard.
Between 4-10 am there is a minimum fare of £12 applied weekdays. (Not applicable weekends and Bank holidays)
So the 5.30 advance fare at the time you suggest would only be available Saturday, Sundays and Bank holidays.
Also remember with the advance tickets you must travel on the train they are booked for.
There will also only be a few advance tickets available at the different rates. And when they are gone they are gone.
Sorry I don't remember how long in advance they get released.

Hope this helps

 

[Wallsendmag]

You mention the 26 30 Railcard.
Just be aware of the restrictions with the Railcard.
Between 4-10 am there is a minimum fare of £12 applied weekdays. (Not applicable weekends and Bank holidays)
So the 5.30 advance fare at the time you suggest would only be available Saturday, Sundays and Bank holidays.
Also remember with the advance tickets you must travel on the train they are booked for.
There will also only be a few advance tickets available at the different rates. And when they are gone they are gone.
Sorry I don't remember how long in advance they get released.

Hope this helps

Do the mininum fares appy to Advance?

 

[JonathanH]

BRfares seems to show that advance tickets between these stations do exist in the fares database see here and here but also says that the existence of a fare in the fares database doesn't guarantee that the ticket is actually available.

Those links suggest that the advance fares are weekend only.

 

[Hadders]

As far as I know there aren't any Advance fares between Cambridge and Kings Cross on GTR, not should there be in my opinion. It's effectively a turn-up and go service with six trains an hour (albeit with varying calling patterns).

The Advance fares at weekends seem to be earmarked as a replacement for the cheaper Super Off Peak weekend tickets, although excellent value for passengers I strongly suspect GTR want to bin them off and this is probbably their way of doing it.

The OP is correct that single tickets between Cambridge and London are expensive, especially when compared with return tickets at off peak times. There's no Off Peak Single ticket and there probably should be although GTR would need to be careful that it wasn't priced too cheaply otherwise it could hit their revenue.

 

[transportphoto]

Just be aware of the restrictions with the Railcard.
Between 4-10 am there is a minimum fare of £12 applied weekdays. (Not applicable weekends and Bank holidays)
So the 5.30 advance fare at the time you suggest would only be available Saturday, Sundays and Bank holidays.

Are railcard minimum fares applicable to Advance tickets? I don’t believe they are.

 

[Hejaz]

Thanks all! Very helpful.

To summarise everything so far:
* Advance tickets from CBG to KGX only exist on weekends. BRFares shows that these tickets are "not valid to depart" on "Mon-Fri".
* The only way to get an off-peak single from CBG to KGX on weekdays is to buy a carnet of five (or ten) tickets. This works out at £15 per ticket and cannot be made cheaper with a railcard discount.
* An advance single to/from LST works out at £5.30 using a 26-30 railcard. The £12 minimum fare does not apply to Advance tickets.

I need to do some thinking on whether it's worth getting the carnet of tickets to KGX or whether I go via LST and run with a tighter schedule since the total journey cost would be £10.60 vs £20.30. (I would always go into CBG via LST using an advance ticket).

Question regarding the carnet ticket terms:

Great Northern's webpage says:

Off-Peak Carnet tickets are handy for avoiding the rush hour during the week. You can travel Monday-Friday on any train:

• Arriving into London after 10am
• Leaving London after 9.30am
• Before 4.30pm or after 7.01pm

I'm unsure as to whether the final bullet point should be interpreted as saying the train from Cambridge has to depart before 16:30 or whether it has to arrive at King's Cross before 16:30. Can anyone advise, please?

Some tangential follow up questions:
* Where does BRfares get the "unpublished restrictions" data from?
* The advance ticket from CBG to KGX apparently has restriction code SZ but I can't find any information on this restriction code. Why is this?

 

[gpmartin]

Re. the carnets, I don't think there's an afternoon peak restriction heading into London. The Great Northern page is badly presented, but I think the second and third bullets in the list relate to trains heading away from London. That would align with the restrictions on the Off Peak Day Return, which is the reference point for the price of the carnet ticket (half the price with a further discount of 10%).

 

[alistairlees]

The Advance fares at weekends seem to be earmarked as a replacement for the cheaper Super Off Peak weekend tickets, although excellent value for passengers I strongly suspect GTR want to bin them off and this is probably their way of doing it.

Wishful thinking. I’m afraid many more tiers of Advance tickets are coming to this route (and many others), probably from 1 June. TOCs are very much in love with advance fares. I look forward to them appearing on the London Underground soon, too.

 

[Hadders]

Wishful thinking. I’m afraid many more tiers of Advance tickets are coming to this route (and many others), probably from 1 June. TOCs are very much in love with advance fares. I look forward to them appearing on the London Underground soon, too.

Sigh! I do hope we don't end up with Advance tickets between Stevenage and London, it would be absolutely farcical if that happened. I suspect most people would end up on the wrong train, especially on the return journey after a day out in London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wishful thinking. I’m afraid many more tiers of Advance tickets are coming to this route (and many others), probably from 1 June. TOCs are very much in love with advance fares. I look forward to them appearing on the London Underground soon, too.

Northern are already doing Advances on routes that aren't much different from Merseyrail, e.g. local services around Manchester and Leeds, and profiteering nicely from people using them on the wrong train or boarding/alighting at the wrong station. It's all very Ryanair and quite unsavoury.

Sigh! I do hope we don't end up with Advance tickets between Stevenage and London, it would be absolutely farcical if that happened. I suspect most people would end up on the wrong train, especially on the return journey after a day out in London.

They already exist between Milton Keynes Central and Euston on both TOCs...

 

[Watershed]

Question regarding the carnet ticket terms:

Great Northern's webpage says:

I'm unsure as to whether the final bullet point should be interpreted as saying the train from Cambridge has to depart before 16:30 or whether it has to arrive at King's Cross before 16:30. Can anyone advise, please?

It's referring to the departure from Kings Cross (or St Pancras if you take a Thameslink service). There are no "evening peak" restrictions heading into London.

You can see the exact restrictions (rather than an approximation of them) on the BR Fares page, which conveniently links you to the restriction code CP which applies to the carnet.

Some tangential follow up questions:
* Where does BRfares get the "unpublished restrictions" data from?

It's from the RDG fares data feed, which is also used by retailers when selling tickets. Essentially these unpublished restrictions are the electronic version of the public-facing text. Journey planners use the electronic version when determining what fares they can offer for each journey.

Sometimes the electronic restrictions differ from the public-facing text. When this happens, under consumer law you're entitled to rely on whichever one is more favourable to you.

* The advance ticket from CBG to KGX apparently has restriction code SZ but I can't find any information on this restriction code. Why is this?

Because the Pricing Manager has forgotten that they need to create a public-facing page detailing the restrictions. Rather an oversight if you ask me!

It's a bit of a moot point for an Advance ticket as the restriction code doesn't really contain anything relevant (you're already tied to a specific journey), but there are flexible tickets where this has also happened, for example Maidenhead to Iver Off-Peak Day Returns with code 9O.

 

[Sleepy]

Wishful thinking. I’m afraid many more tiers of Advance tickets are coming to this route (and many others), probably from 1 June. TOCs are very much in love with advance fares. I look forward to them appearing on the London Underground soon, too.

DfT are definitely in love with Advance fares - though how they expect to ensure correct use on such a DOO route without chaos at ticket barriers rejecting them is another story.

 

[Haywain]

Wishful thinking.

I think @Hadders was suggesting that the weekend Super Off Peak Day tickets might get binned off.

 

[Hejaz]

Thanks all - very helpful! Especially appreciate the link to the BRfares page; apologies that I didn't see the carnet ticket on there.

Also, I really hope the super off-peak day return doesn't get binned. That's my go-to on weekends.

 

[Same_Promo3006]

Do the mininum fares appy to Advance?

They apply to the time you travel. So if it is before 10 am yes.

 

[Wallsendmag]

They apply to the time you travel. So if it is before 10 am yes.

I'm not so sure

4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to:

4.5.1. Advance tickets; or

4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or

4.5.3. journeys during July and August.

At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £12. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - check website for the most up to date information.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do the mininum fares appy to Advance?

They apply to the time you travel. So if it is before 10 am yes.

The £12 minimum fare requirement when using a 26-30 railcard between 04.30 - 10.00 hours Mondays to Fridays (public holidays excepted) doesn't apply to Advance tickets as per Clause 4.2.1 of the 26-30 Railcard Terms & Conditions. See attached link...

Railcard Terms & Conditions - 26-30 Railcard

www.26-30railcard.co.uk

 

[Same_Promo3006]

Are railcard minimum fares applicable to Advance tickets? I don’t believe they are

The £12 minimum fare requirement when using a 26-30 railcard between 04.30 - 10.00 hours Mondays to Fridays (public holidays excepted) doesn't apply to Advance tickets as per Clause 4.2.1 of the 26-30 Railcard Terms & Conditions. See attached link...

Railcard Terms & Conditions - 26-30 Railcard

www.26-30railcard.co.uk

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

I'm not so sure

4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to:

4.5.1. Advance tickets; or

4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or

4.5.3. journeys during July and August.

At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £12. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - check website for the most up to date information.

My mistake. Stand corrected.