Advice not to travel on day after strikes

[exbrel]

Ah yes. From memory you’re the retired train driver, on final salary pension, who in retirement regularly pops up on here to decry how he hates unions…

oh your memory is going, no, no, and as for the last only what i can see without the rose tinted glasses.
how many strike days now, how much lost, how much as mike lost, why no strike pay, and one final question, if they get the pay rise to cover the cost of living crisis, they wont need the grants etc the govt. have given the rest of us will they?... and i was only trying to explain what you found bizarre!

 

[GordonT]

You could say “until approximately 12:00” in that case. I think it’s likely a normal service would be up and running by then. Either that or SWR know in advance they’ll be having issues with availability of crew on Sunday.

A genuine question rather than a statement of fact but would common sense not suggest that adequate staff cover to work late turns on a Sunday immediately following a strike Saturday with or without the London Marathon being on will stretch optimism significantly?

 

[class 9]

oh your memory is going, no, no, and as for the last only what i can see without the rose tinted glasses.
how many strike days now, how much lost, how much as mike lost, why no strike pay, and one final question, if they get the pay rise to cover the cost of living crisis, they wont need the grants etc the govt. have given the rest of us will they?... and i was only trying to explain what you found bizarre!

In English please!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

SWR won't lose anything (they will get paid regardless if trains carry 10 or 100 passengers), the DfT will lose out on revenue if passengers decide to listen to the "don't travel on the Sunday" messages.

Precisely another reason why the govt will soon wake up and realise this approach to running the railways doesn't provide the necessary incentives to either run an appropriate timetable nor maximise revenue.

 

[exbrel]

In English please!

my first sentence was replying to 43066's failing memory... the rest was a few questions on the strikes, and i was trying to help him understand what he thought was so bizarre.

 

[Chrisgr31]

They're obliged to pay a refund for any day they advise not to travel though, regardless of why, which is better than Southern not giving advice not to travel and also not running the first four / five services of the day, then refusing to refund season ticket holders.

Southerns Advice is "Do not travel unless necessary" not sure what the difference is between that and Do Not Travel!

 

[whoosh]

how much as mike lost?

Mike?
Do you mean Mick Lynch? Or Mick Wheelan?

They aren't on strike. They are working for their members. They get paid by their members to work for them and that's what they are doing. At a time of multiple disputes with multiple TOCs and Network Rail grades, I expect they are working harder than ever. Why would they not get paid when their workload is at its highest?

Your thinking is bizarre alright if that's who you were asking about.

and one final question, if they get the pay rise to cover the cost of living crisis, they wont need the grants etc the govt. have given the rest of us will they?...

You know those grants kick in in October this year? To offset the massive rise in energy bills that were going to take place when the government's energy price cap changed in October?
You know that price rises in the cost of living (or not so bad ones with the edge taken off by government grants) that occur from this October to next September make the RPI figure for next September. Thats September 2023?



You do know most of the pay rises rail workers are trying to get a resolution over are with a January or April anniversary of earlier this year, don't you? 2022?
Before any energy cap upward change or the government's suppression of it's effects has anything to do with it.

I fail to see why you are, bizarrely it has to be said, separating out rail workers from the rest of the population.
The increase in the cost of living was the RPI rate for everybody in January or April 2022, for the previous year.
The increase in the cost of living for next January or April (2023) will be the same for everybody. Hopefully it will be suppressed by the energy grant.

You are saying that a grant for the future shouldn't be given for a group of people who still havent got their cost of living payrise due in the past, because when they get it, it somehow magically offsets any rise in the cost of living in the future?

That makes no sense.

Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

 

[43066]

If I pay for something I expect the organisation to do what I want, not the other way round!

If people don’t agree with the union’s stance on an issue they are free to leave. You’ll find most organisations to which it is possible to belong can expel members who go against their interests, including the Tory party ironically….

I imagine the concept of collective action (ie working together with one’s colleagues for betterment of the whole rather than shafting each other to get ahead as happens in so many other industries) is an alien concept to you?

my first sentence was replying to 43066's failing memory...

Based on your writings on here, my memory is the least of your worries!

 

[exbrel]

If people don’t agree with the union’s stance on an issue they are free to leave. You’ll find most organisations to which it is possible to belong can expel members who go against their interests, including the Tory party ironically….

I imagine the concept of collective action (ie working together with one’s colleagues for betterment of the whole rather than shafting each other to get ahead as happens in so many other industries) is an alien concept to you?




Based on your writings on here, my memory is the least of your worries!

so closed shops or even unofficial closed shops are a thing of the past?

regarding your memory, denial is a bad point to get to...

Mike?
Do you mean Mick Lynch? Or Mick Wheelan?

They aren't on strike. They are working for their members. They get paid by their members to work for them and that's what they are doing. At a time of multiple disputes with multiple TOCs and Network Rail grades, I expect they are working harder than ever. Why would they not get paid when their workload is at its highest?

Your thinking is bizarre alright if that's who you were asking about.


You know those grants kick in in October this year? To offset the massive rise in energy bills that were going to take place when the government's energy price cap changed in October?
You know that price rises in the cost of living (or not so bad ones with the edge taken off by government grants) that occur from this October to next September make the RPI figure for next September. Thats September 2023?



You do know most of the pay rises rail workers are trying to get a resolution over are with a January or April anniversary of earlier this year, don't you? 2022?
Before any energy cap upward change or the government's suppression of it's effects has anything to do with it.

I fail to see why you are, bizarrely it has to be said, separating out rail workers from the rest of the population.
The increase in the cost of living was the RPI rate for everybody in January or April 2022, for the previous year.
The increase in the cost of living for next January or April (2023) will be the same for everybody. Hopefully it will be suppressed by the energy grant.

You are saying that a grant for the future shouldn't be given for a group of people who still havent got their cost of living payrise due in the past, because when they get it, it somehow magically offsets any rise in the cost of living in the future?

That makes no sense.

Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

i'm not picking them out, but they were i think the first group to go for a pay rise, since the cost of living crisis took effect, and 7-10% well that spured other unions to say why not us aswell. No matter how much you deserve or think you do a rise, others will think the same, but they might not have the clout. My daughter works for a company associated with the NHS she has not had a rise in the last 4yrs.
It was my mistake sorry, i referred to Mike as thats how we say it where i am, i meant Mick Lynch...

 

[LAX54]

My memory is sketchy but were the previous ones midnight to midnight? Whereas, I think the current series have been from 07:00, which would then affect until then on the next day.

The current RMT strikes are 0600 to 0600, so the day after, trains will not start to be prepped until 0600, then shunted to the platforms etc for the 'start' of service.

 

[43066]

so closed shops or even unofficial closed shops are a thing of the past?

And have been for the last forty years or so. The fact you even ask such a question shows which of us is really stuck in the 1970s…

i'm not picking them out, but they were i think the first group to go for a pay rise, since the cost of living crisis took effect, and 7-10% well that spured other unions to say why not us aswell. No matter how much you deserve or think you do a rise, others will think the same, but they might not have the clout. My daughter works for a company associated with the NHS she has not had a rise in the last 4yrs.

So, because your daughter has been badly treated, you want everyone else to be as well.

You should try opening your eyes. The budget that was passed last week will make her even worse off, while reducing the tax burden on those earning £150k+. And here you are attacking the railway unions .

The Daily Mail certainly has you well programmed…

 

[exbrel]

And have been for the last forty years or so. The fact you even ask such a question shows which of us is really stuck in the 1970s…



So, because your daughter has been badly treated, you want everyone else to be as well.

You should try opening your eyes. The budget that was passed last week will make her even worse off, while reducing the tax burden on those earning £150k+. And here you are attacking the railway unions .

The Daily Mail certainly has you well programmed…

so if a driver, signalperson refuses to strike, or if he/she is not in the union, follows their conscience and works, there will be no comeback?
no, my daughter moans as many others do, but says she cannot strike, as it will effect others...
I have my eyes open, i accept what the govt. is doing, i cannot do anything about it, till the next election, and i'm concerned what the rail unions are doing, as it will effect the railways, its future, other workers are trying to earn their living, its bad enough having to go to work but when you face rail disruption to get there, the time will come when they say enough is enough.
You might well get your rise, but what then. loss of passenger income- higher fares- still less passengers- service cuts- job losses.
no my paper of choice was the sport... for the sport i might add, although the rest was ok...

 

[Falcon1200]

so closed shops or even unofficial closed shops are a thing of the past?

And have been for the last forty years or so.

When did the closed shop end on BR? It was certainly still in force when I joined in 1978, and your grade dictated which union you were 'allowed' (or forced!) to join (BTW I would have joined the union regardless).

 

[WesternBiker]

SWR have just emailed me :


South Western Railway (SWR) is urging customers only to travel by rail if absolutely necessary on Saturday 1 and Sunday 2 October due to the planned RMT and TSSA industrial action.


The same message is being announced frequently at their stations today. This seems completely crazy when Sunday should be a near normal service with a late start, which to be fair they do go on to say (correctly):


Sunday 2 October
First services will start much later than usual and will be very busy – please avoid them if you can.


However, the main message is DO NOT TRAVEL ON SUNDAY. Why? If people heed this message trains will be running around half empty and SWR will lose millions in revenue, why would they do this?

Is the motivation that they’ll have less capacity if things go wrong on those days?

Beyond that, I agree the degree of alarm seems a little odd when the strike day timetable for the main line is not that different.

For me at least it has (bizarrely) worked better than an ordinary weekend timetable. I’ve experienced near-empty 12 car Waterloo - Basingstokes, but I’ve also noticed increasing numbers of people travelling on strike days compared with a few months ago.

 

[scrapy]

The current RMT strikes are 0600 to 0600, so the day after, trains will not start to be prepped until 0600, then shunted to the platforms etc for the 'start' of service.

Where have you got that information from?

 

[Nottingham59]

not to mention having to get trains back to depot (so passenger services must finish even earlier) before 1900 the previous day

Is this likely to be an issue before Saturday's strike?
I need to get back from Bristol to Nottingham after 1700h this Friday.
Should I a book a coach just in case?

 

[Taplowgreen]

If people don’t agree with the union’s stance on an issue they are free to leave. You’ll find most organisations to which it is possible to belong can expel members who go against their interests, including the Tory party ironically….

I imagine the concept of collective action (ie working together with one’s colleagues for betterment of the whole rather than shafting each other to get ahead as happens in so many other industries) is an alien concept to you?




Based on your writings on here, my memory is the least of your worries!

Interesting that you cite political parties as an example of those which can expel members who go against their interests.

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Labour whip 617 times since becoming an MP in 1983 - I imagine the concept of collective action was an alien concept to him too - but he wasn't expelled.

Of course, (thankfully) he's no longer subject to the Labour whip...........but that's for somewhat different reasons.

 

[Magdalen Road]

I thought this thread was discussing the advice not to travel after strikes rather than re union / the strike itself?

 

[LAX54]

Where have you got that information from?

Sorry RMT strikes are midnight to midnight, staff will work normallly on the run up to the strike, so if booking on at 2200 will work to 0600, but will not book on the next day at 2200, so there will be no staff until the 0600 shift commences, and no one to clean and set up the trains.
Trains on the depot will not be shunted / remarshalled due to no staff to move or signal the stock, no maintainence will be carried out.#
12 hour shifts in a Signalbox, staff will book on at 1800 work to 0600 strike day, but will not book on the next day, thus the box will not open until 0600 the day after the strike.

 

[Cowley]

I thought this thread was discussing the advice not to travel after strikes rather than re union / the strike itself?

Yes it is indeed. No more union stuff now please. This thread needs to be about travelling post (as in after ) strikes.

Thanks

 

[Dave91131]

Is this likely to be an issue before Saturday's strike?
I need to get back from Bristol to Nottingham after 1700h this Friday.
Should I a book a coach just in case?

Coach would be my method if I were in your position.

 

[Horizon22]

Is this likely to be an issue before Saturday's strike?
I need to get back from Bristol to Nottingham after 1700h this Friday.
Should I a book a coach just in case?

Not before strike day no; they'll run as usual as even late night trains, drivers and signallers will have booked on for a Friday shift, even if it takes them into the earlier hours of Saturday.

It will be for anyone booking on Saturday, hence the restricted hours that day and problems into Sunday.

 

[Nottingham59]

Not before strike day no; they'll run as usual as even late night trains, drivers and signallers will have booked on for a Friday shift, even if it takes them into the earlier hours of Saturday.

It will be for anyone booking on Saturday, hence the restricted hours that day and problems into Sunday.

Thank you for the reassurance.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I may need to travel on Saturday 01 and or 08 October on SWR. My normal journey is from Shepperton to Waterloo, I can see already that there will be no trains serving Shepperton, but there does seem to be a service of 4 trains an hour from Walton on Thames to Waterloo. Walton is only about a 15 minute bus ride from Shepperton so is a good alternative. Does anyone have experience of using SWR services that are scheduled to run on strike days, are they fairly trustworthy and reliable to run? Thank You.

 

[WesternBiker]

I may need to travel on Saturday 01 and or 08 October on SWR. My normal journey is from Shepperton to Waterloo, I can see already that there will be no trains serving Shepperton, but there does seem to be a service of 4 trains an hour from Walton on Thames to Waterloo. Walton is only about a 15 minute bus ride from Shepperton so is a good alternative. Does anyone have experience of using SWR services that are scheduled to run on strike days, are they fairly trustworthy and reliable to run? Thank You.

Yes, I've had to use them regularly on strike days - both the Waterloo-Woking and Waterloo-Basingstoke services. So far, they have worked well and exactly according to the strike day timetable. The Basingstoke trains seem to be fairly quiet, but the Wokings have been increasingly busy, though never full.

As has been said further up the conversation, it is less clear what might happen in the event of a disruption, so my advice would be to check on RTT or similar before setting out.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Yes, I've had to use them regularly on strike days - both the Waterloo-Woking and Waterloo-Basingstoke services. So far, they have worked well and exactly according to the strike day timetable. The Basingstoke trains seem to be fairly quiet, but the Wokings have been increasingly busy, though never full.

As has been said further up the conversation, it is less clear what might happen in the event of a disruption, so my advice would be to check on RTT or similar before setting out.

Great, thank you very much for that, looks quite hopeful, yes I would check before I set out in the morning, I know that I need to get back to Waterloo by 17:00 hrs in the evening.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Great, thank you very much for that, looks quite hopeful, yes I would check before I set out in the morning, I know that I need to get back to Waterloo by 17:00 hrs in the evening.

Along these Lines, does anybody know weather or not the Island Line will have a Service on 8th October?
Was planning a Trip there that Weekend
Cheers

 

[joystick]

Island line is normal service on strike days .

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Island line is normal service on strike days .

Great! Thanks Joystick.

 

[Russel]

It's clear neither side is going to back down here and were about to enter another week of strike related disruption, how long until the railway becomes irrelevant?