Air France and KLM to drop free meals on medium-haul

[Tetchytyke]

But the differentiation is also frequency - often multiple flights per day with plenty of rebooking options in their own or partner networks. But the point on frequent flyer status should absolutely not be ignored.

My point is that the airlines, when justifying removing complimentary snacks and drinks, have consistently referred to having to compete on price with the LCCs. British Airways have used the same justification when they crammed extra seats into their planes, to the extent that now you get more legroom on an EasyJet A320 than you do on a British Airways A320. BA CityFlyer have just pulled the same trick on their Embraer aircraft too.

It seems a strange thing to do when the LCCs can often go lower on price. The more the airlines remove, the less incentive there is to pay the premium to travel with them.

For people who don't have an attachment to an airline then, if the only differentiator is price, they will choose based on price. And whilst KLM are competitive on price they're still more expensive than the likes of EasyJet- never mind the ULCCs like Ryanair- for retail customers. And EasyJet's customer service blows a lot of bigger airlines out of the water; I've had EU/UK261 reimbursement within a week from EasyJet.

I agree that there are other differentiators. I use BA because I can book through tickets from the Isle of Man; putting my travel on one ticket removes a significant risk factor of misconnections.
I can see why people who earn Avios/miles/whatever would choose to spend those points with the airline. I can also see why people who earn status would continue to fly with the airline with which they earned status, especially if the status gives them access to lounges or preferred seating.

After 50 flights (even in economy), you do! For those who fly to (or for) work every other week it's a viable proposition.

True, but at that level I'd be more tempted to pay for EasyJet Plus, unless I had to fly through Heathrow. At least you get free exit row and a free large cabin bag seating in that scheme.

And you don't have to do the 50 flights without status to earn it!

Even on the first flight of the day? Have you experienced that, I haven’t?

It's been on the flight back to the UK rather than the flight from the UK, but I've experienced it a couple of times on Jet2 and also on Tui.

 

[miklcct]

LCC's are known for their efficiency. They are less likely to be delayed. I'll fly with them even if the price is the same with full service airlines.

Also, I prefer Gatwick or Luton over Heathrow any single day. The passport queue is a main factor, and transport availability is another (wrong time at Heathrow? A long ride on the N9).

 

[westv]

LCC's are known for their efficiency. They are less likely to be delayed. I'll fly with them even if the price is the same with full service airlines.

Also, I prefer Gatwick or Luton over Heathrow any single day. The passport queue is a main factor, and transport availability is another (wrong time at Heathrow? A long ride on the N9).

LCC but only if you fly at certain times and to certain destinations from certain airports.

 

[miklcct]

LCC but only if you fly at certain times and to certain destinations from certain airports.

Of course if a route is only served by one airline I have no choice but to take it. For example, London to Kaunas where you can't even travel on a full service airline.

 

[route101]

Only flew Air France once from Paris to London and it was a drink and croissant.
KLM from UK to AMS has been a sandwich or stroopwaffel and drink.
BA to and from Heathrow on the domestic runs is water and crisps/cereal bar. No soft drinks.
BA from London City on domestic was a packet of off brand hand cooked crisps and drinks including soft drinks and booze. They weren't proactively offering the booze and soft drinks just the water and orange/apple juice.

I am sure before Covid BA was BOB and domestic flights with no water/crisps offered. Shame no booze and soft drinks are offered on LHR/LGW routes.

Loganair still offer a complimentary drink (tea, coffee or water) and the choice of either a caramel wafer or biscuits.
It is a limited offering, but sets them apart on domestic UK routes and great to see that the bean counters haven’t won.

Do BA still offer a bottle (well thimble) of water and a pretzel in Euro Traveller (short haul economy)?

Yes, Loganair are famous for offering the Tunnocks wafer. I've seen people complain they don't offer juice or soft drinks.

 

[Bill57p9]

Yes, Loganair are famous for offering the Tunnocks wafer. I've seen people complain they don't offer juice or soft drinks.

The other thing Loganair are infamous for is offloading the trolley to save weight if the flight is very busy.

 

[scragend]

When I fly short haul within Europe I try to go with KLM if possible/practical, even if it does mean a change at Schiphol (which is sometimes my destination anyway). I'm happy to pay a bit extra; when the included hand luggage is taken into account it usually ends up fairly similar anyway. The free drink & snack on KLM is nice to have but I would still choose them even if this stops. I just find it a more pleasant experience on KLM than on an LCC - especially on the MAN-AMS route where you can get some interesting characters on the easyJet flights. For the, shall we say, stag do types, cheap flights tend to mean "easyJet or Ryanair" so I can by and large avoid them by flying KLM.

KLM is a terrible airline anyway so can't be much worse however Air France is pretty good.

That's interesting - my experience has been entirely the opposite.

 

[route101]

When I fly short haul within Europe I try to go with KLM if possible/practical, even if it does mean a change at Schiphol (which is sometimes my destination anyway). I'm happy to pay a bit extra; when the included hand luggage is taken into account it usually ends up fairly similar anyway. The free drink & snack on KLM is nice to have but I would still choose them even if this stops. I just find it a more pleasant experience on KLM than on an LCC - especially on the MAN-AMS route where you can get some interesting characters on the easyJet flights. For the, shall we say, stag do types, cheap flights tend to mean "easyJet or Ryanair" so I can by and large avoid them by flying KLM.


That's interesting - my experience has been entirely the opposite.

Have KLM changed their pricing recently? I was looking at coming back via AMS and they had some fair one way prices around £130. Before they never really done one way pricing or day return fares.

 

[zero]

BA allows 46kg of hand baggage with no quibble - not that you'd be able to fit that much into a laptop-sized bag unless you were transporting a bar of gold - but I often do end up having slightly over 20kg in my wheeled carry on + underseat item and it's nice not to have to move things into my trouser/coat pockets when boarding in case an LCC decides to weigh my luggage.

Also Heathrow is my most convenient airport and I hate Luton

The so-called food on board short-haul means nothing to me.

 

[signed]

Also Heathrow is my most convenient airport

Heathrow also has the advantage of not costing £25 to go there one way from Zone 1 (looking at you Standsted), which is a lot of the time more than the LCC flight itself. Same thing at Beauvais, it doesn't cost you €30 return to go to Orly, and only near it for CDG

 

[zero]

Heathrow also has the advantage of not costing £25 to go there one way from Zone 1 (looking at you Standsted), which is a lot of the time more than the LCC flight itself. Same thing at Beauvais, it doesn't cost you €30 return to go to Orly, and only near it for CDG

Yes, for tourists, but most Heathrow users in the UK don't live in zone 1.

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes, for tourists, but most Heathrow users in the UK don't live in zone 1.

It has very good transport links to Surrey, Berkshire and Buckinghamshire as well as West London

 

[Dr_Paul]

The last time I flew in an aeroplane was a BA flight, Heathrow to Cologne, in 1991. We were served with a somewhat desiccated chicken salad, free of charge. I thought it rather amusing, as the flight took just an hour, no more than my ride on the 285 bus to Heathrow, and of course I didn't get any meal, free or not, on that. It did seem to me that a meal would be suitable for long-haul flights, but not for short ones.

 

[theageofthetra]

I disagree completely, since they densified the planes and introduced BOB, the fares have got a lot more competitive. Particularly morning and evening flights are the same price as easyJet.

They still have the USP of using Heathrow, good flight times and including 2 items of hand luggage

And most importantly a full size cabin cabin bag.

 

[route101]

Flying KLM and Air France short haul next month, rare 737 - 700!

 

[Butts]

The other thing Loganair are infamous for is offloading the trolley to save weight if the flight is very busy.

They are even more infamous for having extortionate fares compared to what their predecessor on a lot of routes Flybe charged.

With regard to AF/KLM ending free snacks and drinks onboard I wonder if Star Alliance Lounges will provide doggy bags in the Lounges like BA did when they axed free onboard catering.

With BA BOB means bring on board not buy on board if you have Lounge Access.

 

[AY1975]

They're pretty much the last airline to offer proper food in short haul economy. British Airways* got rid almost ten years ago now, Lufthansa did it in 2021.

(*CityFlyer still offers food and complimentary drinks- including hot drinks, spirits, wine, and beer- but for how much longer who knows)

That depends on your definition of proper food. As I recall both BA and Lufthansa (and many other full service airlines* such as SwissAir) still used to serve all passengers a complimentary full meal even on short-haul flights in the 1990s, but I think at least BA had stopped doing so by the early 2000s. I flew from Manchester to Frankfurt in 2001, I think it was with BA, and I remember being a bit surprised to only be offered a sandwich rather than a full meal.

(*Obviously low cost carriers as we know them today weren't really a thing in the 1990s, or at least not in the early 90s)

 

[Tetchytyke]

LCC's are known for their efficiency. They are less likely to be delayed.

I take it you’ve never taken an evening flight with EasyJet then! The evening Gatwick-IOM is on time about as often as I have a night of hot passion with [insert celebrity].

The other thing Loganair are infamous for is offloading the trolley to save weight if the flight is very busy.

I’ve never ever experienced that and I fly regularly with them on the ATR72, including when both the front and rear cargo holds are full of bags. The closest I’ve come to that is having to stay seated until the rear cargo hold is emptied to avoid tipping.

Heathrow also has the advantage of not costing £25 to go there one way from Zone 1 (looking at you Standsted

It costs £25 on the Heathrow Express and £15 on the Lizzy Line. I’d rather punch myself in the head than spend over an hour on the Piccadilly Line on the rickety old sweatbox 73 stock.

They are even more infamous for having extortionate fares compared to what their predecessor on a lot of routes Flybe charged.

Loganair look expensive because they bundle the luggage in with the fare. When you start adding any sort of baggage they’re not really any more expensive than EasyJet and they’re certainly not any more expensive than Flybe were. Flybe used to charge £50 per sector for hold baggage- a fee that was taking the p155 for, say, IOM-Manchester and the cabin baggage size made Ryanair look generous. And the ground crew, especially at Belfast City, couldn’t get the card reader out fast enough if your bag was 2mm oversized.

Flybe were a horrible airline and I’m eternally glad they went bust.

 

[signed]

£15 on the Lizzy Line

Which is quite in line with most airport around the world. And if you want to go cheap, there are myriads of EL+Bus splits from Zone 1, for around £5 off-peak.

You can take SL9/279 to/from Hayes & Harlington and only add 15min to your trip (£5.25 off-peak from Zone 1). Though that's off-topic.

 

[route101]

That depends on your definition of proper food. As I recall both BA and Lufthansa (and many other full service airlines* such as SwissAir) still used to serve all passengers a complimentary full meal even on short-haul flights in the 1990s, but I think at least BA had stopped doing so by the early 2000s. I flew from Manchester to Frankfurt in 2001, I think it was with BA, and I remember being a bit surprised to only be offered a sandwich rather than a full meal.

(*Obviously low cost carriers as we know them today weren't really a thing in the 1990s, or at least not in the early 90s)

I remember flying LHR up to Glasgow on a 757 around early 2001 and getting a full hot lunch.

Yes, flights later in the day are often delayed. No wonder the last Glasgow to Dublin is the cheapest.

 

[Bald Rick]

I take it you’ve never taken an evening flight with EasyJet then! The evening Gatwick-IOM is on time about as often as I have a night of hot passion with [insert celebrity].

Your chosen celebrity must be exhausted after two nights’ action on the trot so far this week!

 

[miklcct]

Which is quite in line with most airport around the world. And if you want to go cheap, there are myriads of EL+Bus splits from Zone 1, for around £5 off-peak.

You can take SL9/279 to/from Hayes & Harlington and only add 15min to your trip (£5.25 off-peak from Zone 1). Though that's off-topic.

The Airport Express in Hong Kong is slightly cheaper (HK$115), and the Airport Express in Beijing is much cheaper (¥25). The Airport Line in Shenzhen is only ¥7 in standard class and ¥21 in first class between Airport and Futian (the city centre), which is the only line having first class in the whole Shenzhen Metro network at triple the standard class price.

The standard class on Heathrow Express charges 11 times the first class fare on the Airport Line in Shenzhen!

 

[Mag_seven]

Has anyone got anything else to say about Air France and KLM dropping free meals on medium haul flights?

 

[scarby]

Has anyone got anything else to say about Air France and KLM dropping free meals on medium haul flights?

However paltry some offerings are, they are still included in the price - they are not "free".

Therefore if they take these away they should reduce the prices of a flight accordingly.

If I stay in a hotel and one week they include breakfast and the next they take it away I wouldn't expect it to be the same price.

Even though these offerings are often so meagre, they are still part of one's needs when making a journey. When I travel Air France Stockholm-Paris-Paris-Biarritz, the small offerings on both flights are just enough to sustain me in the air.

Without these one can easily end up spending 8 euros here and there, which all adds up. The true cost of a journey is what you spend door to door, not just the flight tickets.