Airdrie-Bathgate service

[CarterUSM]

I get what you mean now.

 

[Bittern]

Yes, plus the one unit that takes up the Dunbar services, and that is the issue which is going to result in this contigency put into place until September 2011

Doesn't the 322's leaving actually leave them short of seven units total then? The above plus 156499 who still is out of service.

 

[rail-britain]

Doesn't the 322's leaving actually leave them short of seven units total then?

Could well, but the PVR allowance already takes any units out of service for maintenance or repair (such as 156499)
Currently four diagrams and five Class 322 units, but this requirement changes from May as these diagrams become absorbed into the Class 380 (GSM fitted) fleet, plus an increase to five diagrams

 

[Damien1986]

Isn't it great that the Airdrie to Bathgate Line is finally getting the full 4 tph that it was promised at the start?

 

[me123]

Yes it is. Although I think anyone who has seen the facts would be sympathetic towards the reasons.

Interestingly, this will be the last week of DMU operation on the Bathgate line. Friday evening will see the last DMUs serve Bathgate. On Saturday, the 4tph to Bathgate will be operated by 334s, and on Sunday the new timetable (with 4tph throughout) comes into play.

What is the state of play wrt North Berwick runs? I've been led to believe that there won't be a problem any more, is that right? They should be off to Leeds from what I understand.

 

[MadCommuter]

So presumably this is the last week of 334s on the Argyle line. Or at least in any significant numbers

 

[Bittern]

They've been fading off that line for a while. Have you not noticed the surge of 318 activity on the Argyle?

On the subject of A-B, I took a trip to Caldecruix a few days ago and like the last time I went, the passenger numbers left much to be desired. I'm worried that low passenger numbers are the norm for the line and it'll achieve less than predicted numbers, whereas other reopened lines have achieved far more than their predicted numbers.

 

[rail-britain]

the passenger numbers left much to be desired. I'm worried that low passenger numbers are the norm for the line and it'll achieve less than predicted numbers, whereas other reopened lines have achieved far more than their predicted numbers.

Yes, compared to the Alloa reopening it is quite a stark difference
However, once the proposed timetable is introduced this should build public confidence and passenger numbers should rise over the next 12 months

I am going to be travelling on the route in a few weeks time and will then travel again later in the year, to compare passenger numbers
Plus I want to experience the semi-fast service and then compare to the traditional service via Falkirk High, to see if there is actually any time saving on cross Glasgow services (which is currently putting people off)

 

[me123]

On the subject of A-B, I took a trip to Caldecruix a few days ago and like the last time I went, the passenger numbers left much to be desired. I'm worried that low passenger numbers are the norm for the line and it'll achieve less than predicted numbers, whereas other reopened lines have achieved far more than their predicted numbers.

There'll be a number of reasons for this:

• The reduced timetable and problems at reopening will have dented confidence in the service
• An hourly service was not deemed adequate by those who live along the line (who are used to higher frequencies). I actually remember seeing some people going from Blairhill-Edinburgh buying tickets via Glasgow because the hourly service was putting them off using a direct (and considerably cheaper) train. Hopefully that won't happen now...
• The fares to Edinburgh are considerably more than the equivalent fares to Glasgow

Should have all gone better than this, especially as the line itself was broadly finished on time and on budget! Shame about having two harsh winters into a row... The problems with 380s are frustrating for everyone involved, but these have been discussed ad nauseum.

However, we'll see what happens over Summer. There's going to be more students going to uni in both cities over this time (because the line allows them to commute in both directions), there'll be lots of daytrips over the Summer, and the 4tph frequency will really boost confidence in the service. And, over the next few years, you'll start to see a growth in commuter traffic as people consider job opportunities in Glasgow, Livingston and Edinburgh that previously wouldn't have been feasible.

I look forward to next week!

 

[Damien1986]

They've been fading off that line for a while. Have you not noticed the surge of 318 activity on the Argyle?

On the subject of A-B, I took a trip to Caldecruix a few days ago and like the last time I went, the passenger numbers left much to be desired. I'm worried that low passenger numbers are the norm for the line and it'll achieve less than predicted numbers, whereas other reopened lines have achieved far more than their predicted numbers.

So what will happen in regards to promised class 320 units? I take it they will not arrive until later in the year?

 

[tbtc]

On the subject of A-B, I took a trip to Caldecruix a few days ago and like the last time I went, the passenger numbers left much to be desired. I'm worried that low passenger numbers are the norm for the line and it'll achieve less than predicted numbers, whereas other reopened lines have achieved far more than their predicted numbers.

This is the danger, that one "underperforming" reopening will be used as an excuse for the "Powers That Be" having cold feet about future ones.

We like to trump the over-performing Alloa line, but it may take a few years for the Bathgate line to get up to the numbers it was expected to get reach.

Any news on where the displaced DMUs will go to? (presumably within Scotland, of course)

 

[MacCookie]

Any news on where the displaced DMUs will go to? (presumably within Scotland, of course)

The units displaced from A-B will do two things:
1. Allow one of the Fife loco-hauled sets to be disbanded;
2. Take over the Glasgow - Whifflet and Motherwell - Cumbernauld services (thus allowing strengthening of other 156 operated services elsewhere in the west IIRC).

New diagrams will appear on scot-rail over the next week or so I think.

Ewan

 

[Blindtraveler]

One thing in its favour that few other passengers have noticed is that as the services are not queing to use 7 busy bay platforms at high level, the arivals at GLQ are more punctual, esp at rush hour meaning that during my work I have now used the line several times and apart from usual congestion at haymarket, its not half bad to use between the 2 cities

 

[tbtc]

The units displaced from A-B will do two things:
1. Allow one of the Fife loco-hauled sets to be disbanded;
2. Take over the Glasgow - Whifflet and Motherwell - Cumbernauld services (thus allowing strengthening of other 156 operated services elsewhere in the west IIRC).

New diagrams will appear on scot-rail over the next week or so I think.

Ewan

Thanks Ewan

 

[MadCommuter]

They've been fading off that line for a while. Have you not noticed the surge of 318 activity on the Argyle?

Can't say that I have. In fact my return train home recently changed from a single 318 to a pair of 334s. I also notice roughly the same amount of 334s about as a year or so ago. Maybe its just the time of day I travel.

 

[Grendel]

There'll be a number of reasons for this:

• The reduced timetable and problems at reopening will have dented confidence in the service
• An hourly service was not deemed adequate by those who live along the line (who are used to higher frequencies). I actually remember seeing some people going from Blairhill-Edinburgh buying tickets via Glasgow because the hourly service was putting them off using a direct (and considerably cheaper) train. Hopefully that won't happen now...
• The fares to Edinburgh are considerably more than the equivalent fares to Glasgow

Should have all gone better than this, especially as the line itself was broadly finished on time and on budget! Shame about having two harsh winters into a row... The problems with 380s are frustrating for everyone involved, but these have been discussed ad nauseum.

However, we'll see what happens over Summer. There's going to be more students going to uni in both cities over this time (because the line allows them to commute in both directions), there'll be lots of daytrips over the Summer, and the 4tph frequency will really boost confidence in the service. And, over the next few years, you'll start to see a growth in commuter traffic as people consider job opportunities in Glasgow, Livingston and Edinburgh that previously wouldn't have been feasible.

I look forward to next week!

I use the service regularly and have been surprised at how busy it is, especially mornings and evenings.
It hasn't been the most inspiring start, with the stations being delivered piecemeal, and perhaps the impression that the service is not as reliable as before.
Personally I think it is great, although the lack of any provsion for carrying cycles is jaw droppingly stupid and a major oversight.

 

[Bittern]

Can't say that I have. In fact my return train home recently changed from a single 318 to a pair of 334s. I also notice roughly the same amount of 334s about as a year or so ago. Maybe its just the time of day I travel.

I travel on the line at varying times of the day and 90% of the time I get a 318 and have noticed the numbers of 334s on the line are dwindling. Today, however, I got a pleasant surprise when my train was formed by 334012.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I use the service regularly
. . . .
Personally I think it is great, although the lack of any provsion for carrying cycles is jaw droppingly stupid and a major oversight.

WHAAAAT?

I hadn't made that connection - thank you. Yes, if that is correct then it is an appaling development. I can only hope that you are wrong!

(As a seasoned rail traveller with bike, I confess to having had tricky moments - mainly on FCC where I even had the bike's rear wheel locked in the closing door while pax slowly moved into the saloon; most other operators tend to be accomodating (to some astonishing degrees of abuse of their on-board space!) but I've usually managed. In fact, although I have often been approached or even challenged, I've NEVER been refused.)

Is that a matter of FSR policy, or just interior design? If the latter then will that not be equally restrictive for prams, buggies, non-folding wheelchairs and even walking frames with shopping bag?

 

[CarterUSM]

I wouldn't say cycles were banned or anything! There are certainly no dedicated cycle spaces on 334's, but several or more may be conveyed throughout the train in the vestibule areas. Ayr and Largs services seen many bicycles for years and most people managed well in my experience. Not as handy as dedicated space i'll concede however!

 

[Bittern]

The loos on the 334s take up half the middle coach. I can't see where they'd put cycle accommodation on them.

 

[chris89]

Well this is the suitable thread for this link. Just linked to me about Armadale station.

http://www.westlothiancourier.co.uk...ger-over-rail-ticket-problems-62405-28718258/

Considering the Ticket machines are on the platform and are both the card only payment ones :/ As when i've gone from there i've had to pay on the train due to not wanting to use my card and use any notes or change i have got.

Chris

 

[Bittern]

I saw this happen at my local. The numpties were outside the ticket office and you had to get by them to get a ticket! Good thing I had my ZoneCard.

The woman who sent in the letter has a point. You need tickets to get through at both Glasgow and Edinburgh, where most commuters actually go. ScotRail, do you want to reduce the number of people buying on-train? Then freaking staff your bloody stations!

 

[CarterUSM]

Weird, as 'buy before you board' is relaxed from stations with card only TVM's.

 

[The_Stig]

Well this is the suitable thread for this link. Just linked to me about Armadale station.

http://www.westlothiancourier.co.uk...ger-over-rail-ticket-problems-62405-28718258/

Considering the Ticket machines are on the platform and are both the card only payment ones :/ As when i've gone from there i've had to pay on the train due to not wanting to use my card and use any notes or change i have got.

Chris

“It looked like a lot of passengers were all going to miss their train but eventually another worker came along with a ticket machine and he was able to buy one that way before getting through.

It just shows that a fair number of people were not planning on buying a ticket by not allowing themselves enough time before boarding as the automatic ticket machines are a lot slower than actual staff.

 

[bAzTNM]

On the subject of A-B, I took a trip to Caldecruix

I always find that once it gets to Airdrie, everybody clears out. It becomes really eery until about Bathgate were it fills up with people going to Edinburgh.

 

[Bittern]

How are passenger numbers now? Are trains more healthily loaded now that there's a much better service than what the line opened with?

 

[Pumbaa]

I was in Edinburgh on Friday and the Monday beforethen, all the 334s going out seemed to be healthy loadings, although lots of double sets too. Not too sure if its needed yet other than high peak. But these were about 3pm.

 

[Bittern]

Yeah but how many of those passengers would've been going to stations up to Bathgate? The real concern is the amount of passengers who's travels take them over the rebuilt section.

 

[me123]

It is worth noting that a lot of the diagrams have six car sets running throughout the day with very few sets returning to the depot during the day itself. The six cars are definitely needed in the peaks (largely for the pre-existing traffic at either end). There is precious little room at Edinburgh to join or divide trains, and even when there is they either have to stable there or go off empty to Bathgate. There is some scope at Helensburgh and Milngavie, but even then the trains have to run empty to a depot quite some distance away. For that reason, it makes sense to have the trains running 6 car throughout the day. The length of the services is such that they may only be sitting around for a few hours anyway.

It's also important to remember that the 3pm departures from Edinburgh will be through Glasgow at about half-past four, and then back through Glasgow at half-past 5/6. They may not be the rush hour at the Edinburgh end, but the capacity is definitely needed in Glasgow. I'm sure the same can be said for some trains through Glasgow as well.

 

[Blindtraveler]

i've taken to using the Milngavie services which are semi fast from Bathgate onwards to reach Glasgow and in the peak in particular have found it far more reliable than the q's etc to access GLQ high level from the mainline. Get a seat in the 2 plus 2 and your laughing as there is only about 10 minutes travel time difference in it.