Airport expansions

[Snow1964]

After a lifetime of living in the Gatwick area I'd love to know how the government intend to deal with 'noise mitigation', are all the residents of the area going to be issued with ear defenders?

If it is anything like Heathrow, the airport paid for triple glazing and other acoustic work on properties within certain distance of ends of runway.

Or it might be restrictions on noise (certain plane types not accepted). But of course depends on where you are, there are parts near the station where a 165 train pulling away is louder than a departing aircraft.

 

[bangor-toad]

This is the sort of abject nonsense that blights development in this country. Gatwick is proposing a new runway, not additional terminal space. Therefore the passenger capacity of the airport will not increase.

Hi,
I'm not sure this is completely correct. Buried within the planning application is a reference to a new 'Pier 7'. This looks to be like a small terminal just to the west of the current Easyjet hanger.
It doesn't appear to be a full terminal as you couldn't go there to eg check in but it'll be a capacity expansion.
It look as if it'll be served by "autonomous vehicles" as a way of getting there from either the North or South terminals. I have no idea what those would actually be but I can't help but think of the shuttles things at Washington Dulles.

Here are some relevant links to the Planning Inspectorate
The layout is shown on page 2: pdf file
Narrative about 'Pier 7' on page 14: pdf file

Personally I'd be supportive of such an expansion. Let's use the assets and space we've already got and if it's private funding rather than the taxpayer that's even better.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[TravelDream]

After a lifetime of living in the Gatwick area I'd love to know how the government intend to deal with 'noise mitigation', are all the residents of the area going to be issued with ear defenders?

There are a few things they can do.
Adjust/ vary the arrival and departure routes to lower noise impact on the ground and to vary it through the day/ week.
Have a programme to fund noise insulation/ windows for people who are highly affected by the noise.
Have limits on the sound level/ dB level of aircraft with fines for airlines which have an approach/ take off above the limit.

Public transport should be easy.
They are on the mainline and they can work with operators to promote the use of the railway and get a consultant to make up (sorry, project) figures for rail use growth.
A small subsidy (minuscule in the grand scheme of things) can be given to bus operators to extend services to the airport/ extend operating hours.

 

[camflyer]

I welcome the announcement but it does seem a lot of money to move a strip of concrete 12m without any significant changes to terminals or transport infrastructure.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I welcome the announcement but it does seem a lot of money to move a strip of concrete 12m without any significant changes to terminals or transport infrastructure.

Gatwick Airport Northern Runway plans
Have a look at the videos here.
As part of the capacity increase, they are increasing road capacity to and from the airport with new and heavily re-engineered roundabouts, flyovers and widening of the M23 spur.
That will not be cheap and will probably take up to a third of the budget, although I suspect that the airport will also invest in some improvements to public transport links at the same time.

 

[Airline Man]

I started work with British Caledonian at Gatwick in 1984 and the second runway was a hot topic even then. I believe that the airport and West Sussex council agreed not to build a second runway for FORTY years!

I wouldn’t hold your breath, this will go on and on for many years and we’ll all be dead by the time it happens.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I started work with British Caledonian at Gatwick in 1984 and the second runway was a hot topic even then. I believe that the airport and West Sussex council agreed not to build a second runway for FORTY years!

I wouldn’t hold your breath, this will go on and on for many years and we’ll all be dead by the time it happens.

That agreement expired, which is why Gatwick have proposed this. The proposals are almost ready for construction, they just need the go ahead.

 

[bangor-toad]

I welcome the announcement but it does seem a lot of money to move a strip of concrete 12m without any significant changes to terminals or transport infrastructure.

Hi,
Have a look at the links in my last post.

Actually having looked far more closely at this today I am in awe at the misdirection in focusing on the runway.
That's actually a pretty trivial part of the works Gatwick is seeking consent for.

At a rough estimate I'd say the total area of the new works, excluding the runway shift, is about 1.5 times the size of the whole North Terminal (including the aprons for the planes). None of this is clearly laid on on the Gatwick airport website, you've got to deep dive into the Development Consent Order to see the magnitude of the proposals.
One bit is baffling though, what do they really mean about changing the main South Terminal long stay car park into "Self-park south robotics"?

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[Cloud Strife]

One bit is baffling though, what do they really mean about changing the main South Terminal long stay car park into "Self-park south robotics"?

Could be that they want to change the car parks into those automated car parks where you drive in, lock the car and leave, and the car is taken by lift to somewhere deep within the car park. It's a much more efficient use of space and cuts down quite significantly on emissions.

 

[brad465]

Luton expansion now given official backing by the government:

Government backs plans for Luton airport expansion

Luton Rising wants to increase airport capacity to 32 million passengers by 2043.

www.bbc.co.uk

The government has approved plans to expand London Luton Airport.
Luton Rising, the airport's owners, wanted to increase airport capacity from 18 million annual passengers to 32 million by 2043.
This would involve building a new terminal, new taxiways and increasing the capacity in the existing terminal.
Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander approved the proposals despite the Planning Inspectorate recommending she reject them over environmental concerns.
Due to the scale of the project, the airport had to submit a Development Consent Order to the Secretary of State for Transport for a final decision.
The decision had been delayed three times - most recently so newly appointed Alexander could have more time to consider the application.
Paul Kehoe, the independent chair of Luton Rising which is owned by Luton Borough Council, welcomed the approval which could bring "significant economic, employment and social benefits for our town".
He said: "At a new capacity of 32 million passengers per year, our scheme will deliver up to 11,000 new jobs, additional annual economic activity of up to £1.5bn, and up to an additional £13m every year for communities and good causes."

Will be interesting to see what, if any, rail improvements are provided to support this.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Luton expansion now given official backing by the government:

Government backs plans for Luton airport expansion

Luton Rising wants to increase airport capacity to 32 million passengers by 2043.

www.bbc.co.uk

Will be interesting to see what, if any, rail improvements are provided to support this.

None I suspect (in terms of heavy rail at least). They made a major investment in the people mover and there aren't really any glaring improvements that could be made.
Perhaps they may contribute to have a branch from St Albans on the HERT (Herts Essex Rapid Transit) scheme planned.

 

[gabrielhj07]

EMR stopping their Intercity services there would be a start.

 

[YorkRailFan]

EMR stopping their Intercity services there would be a start.

Would that pose as a capacity issue on current 222 sets which are already full at the best of times?

 

[gabrielhj07]

Would that pose as a capacity issue on current 222 sets which are already full at the best of times?

Maybe, have to wait & see what the 810s are like. Either way Luton could probably do with better railway connections to the north than Corby & Bedford.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Maybe, have to wait & see what the 810s are like. Either way Luton could probably do with better railway connections to the north than Corby & Bedford.

Agree, I wonder how many passengers double back from St Pancras on EMR coming from the Midlands/South Yorkshire.

 

[Bald Rick]

Will be interesting to see what, if any, rail improvements are provided to support this.

None. They will extend the people mover, that’s it.

Agree, I wonder how many passengers double back from St Pancras on EMR coming from the Midlands/South Yorkshire.

Almost none. Anyone from Nottingham and south thereof will change at Kettering; much quicker and cheaper.

Anyone from Sheffield will generally fly from Manchester. Those that do use Luton have the choice of changing twice at Leicester and Luton (simple connections that I have never failed to make in about 20 trips), or the M1.

 

[camflyer]

So (unless I'm mistaken) that's Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City and Luton with approved expansion plans.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

So (unless I'm mistaken) that's Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City and Luton with approved expansion plans.

And Manchester in progress

 

[camflyer]

And Manchester in progress

Manchester Airport seems to have been a building site for at least 20 years.

 

[Bald Rick]

So (unless I'm mistaken) that's Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City and Luton with approved expansion plans.

Neither Heathrow nor Gatwick are approved.

Heathrow is supported by Governement, but it will be years before approval.

Gatwick is ‘minded to approve’ by Government, but a final decision is not coming until October.

 

[thejuggler]

New building at Leeds Bradford is now well advanced and work on the approach roads ongoing. It is expected to open in a couple of months. Work will then start on the next phase which redevlops the existing terminal building.

They have also now installed auto readers for boarding passes before security. There are only three and last week the system was very flaky. Pass has to be laid flat on the screen and left there, stand too close to the barrier and it won't open. As a result the pre security check in last Monday afternoon was almost to the arrivals area. It will be interesting once the summer timetable starts and the passenger numbers increase significantly.

My next trip is in a couple of weeks so I'll see if it has settled down.

 

[pitdiver]

I live near Mansfield. With East Midlands Airport on my doorstep I have no need to travel to Luton. The fact that easyJet don't fly from EMA can be a slight disadvantage but we do have the possibility of Doncaster -Sheffield operating again.

 

[QSK19]

Almost none. Anyone from Nottingham and south thereof will change at Kettering; much quicker and cheaper.

Being somebody falling into that category, I’ve only ever double-backed it once. That was when the northbound 5-car train that I would have been on had I changed at Kettering was rammed; yet travelling south on the 360 and then double-backing at STP onto a much quieter 10-car formation was worth its weight in gold.

Admittedly, I wasn’t in a rush and had time to kill; so I would have stomached a crowded Meridian it if I needed to be back sooner.

I live near Mansfield. With East Midlands Airport on my doorstep I have no need to travel to Luton. The fact that easyJet don't fly from EMA can be a slight disadvantage but we do have the possibility of Doncaster -Sheffield operating again.

I think it depends on where you’re flying to. For example, even though I live near Loughborough, I am almost exclusively reliant on the London airports for my flights abroad. For Luton and Gatwick, I would get the train by default.

 

[pug1]

I live near Mansfield. With East Midlands Airport on my doorstep I have no need to travel to Luton. The fact that easyJet don't fly from EMA can be a slight disadvantage but we do have the possibility of Doncaster -Sheffield operating again.

Doncaster is a lost cause whether they manage to reopen it or not. Growth is market led and LTN will always take the lions share of the M1 corridor south of Sheffield. Easyjet dropped EMA some years ago because they were competing with themselves on cost due to overlap with LTN.

 

[daodao]

The usefulness of an airport for potential passengers depends on the destinations served. For example, Luton focusses on short-haul flights to popular holiday resorts, Eastern Europe and Tel Aviv. EasyJet and Ryanair respectively provide services to UK domestic and Irish destinations and there are a limited number of services to major Western European cities, but there are no long-haul flights whatsoever.

 

[Bald Rick]

but there are no long-haul flights whatsoever.

Not least because the runway isn’t long enough for most fully laden wide-body aircraft.

(There’s a regular A300F that visits, and I‘m fairly sure 767s could use it in the past, but they won’t be full or long haul).

 

[pitdiver]

I do realise DSA may well not work that is why I said the possibility of it working again. We also have LBA or BHX that we could use. But I should add we use to live in Bedfordshire so Luton was our goto airport but it is now 2hrs 20 mins away. Not only that, both my wife and I are in our 70s and the wife is a wheelchair user so EMA is a better deal as regard to parking and as she has a Blue Badge we get a discount on the Meet and Greet parking.

 

[Cross City]

Not least because the runway isn’t long enough for most fully laden wide-body aircraft.

Fully laden no but I've seen 777s and 747s in Luton with my own eyes.

I think JMC/MyTravel/Airtours used to use A330s there fairly regularly too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fairly easy to extend it, though, as while one end has Luton directly next to it and a massive cliff (not as pronounced as it was with the road added I guess) the other end is just farmland. Offer the right price and it can easily be purchased for an extension.

(One could argue that extending it the other way over Luton would be an improvement, though )

 

[gabrielhj07]

Fairly easy to extend it, though, as while one end has Luton directly next to it and a massive cliff (not as pronounced as it was with the road added I guess) the other end is just farmland. Offer the right price and it can easily be purchased for an extension.

It's not exactly flat at the western end either, would probably need some fairly significant earthworks to make a runway out of it.