All line rail rover restriction question

[Haywain]

it was some time in the mid-to-late 2000s that Money Saving Expert made reference to the fact that the ALR undercut quite a few different long distance anytime returns and weekly season tickets (mainly those on the likes of then Virgin Trains, Cross Country and GNER/NXEC),

It wasn't MSE that gave it the publicity - it was Lord Adonis, a transport minister at the time, who used one and made some rather high profile comments about it and soon afterwards the restrictions were imposed.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

The irony is that the ALR didn't used to have these restrictions placed on them. I can't remember the exact date, but it was some time in the mid-to-late 2000s that Money Saving Expert made reference to the fact that the ALR undercut quite a few different long distance anytime returns and weekly season tickets (mainly those on the likes of then Virgin Trains, Cross Country and GNER/NXEC), which increased the uptake of the ALR quite significantly with long-distance commuters. Of course, these operators were very unhappy with losing out on revenue from the more expensive returns/weekly seasons, so pushed for restrictions to be added to the ALR to curb their usage in this way. In essence it's a very similar situation to the restrictions Virgin/Avanti added to off-peak tickets from Lancaster to London to avoid the undercutting of Preston to London anytime tickets that was happening several years ago.

What you have said exactly describes my argument on how TOCs only care about profit and nothing else. Basically scamming people into paying more for no reason whatsoever other than financial profit.

 

[Silver Cobra]

It wasn't MSE that gave it the publicity - it was Lord Adonis, a transport minister at the time, who used one and made some rather high profile comments about it and soon afterwards the restrictions were imposed.

Ah, fair enough. Though that makes it even more ironic, as there's little chance a transport minister today would ever do such a thing, at least in this current government.

 

[thedbdiboy]

What you have said exactly describes my argument on how TOCs only care about profit and nothing else. Basically scamming people into paying more for no reason whatsoever other than financial profit.

How many times does it need to be repeated that TOCs do not now keep any of the money taken in rail fares and have not done so since 2020?
The railways are in an organisational mess and it is down to the Government to sort it out but the amount charged in fares makes not one jot of difference in the management fee structure earned by TOCs.

Unfortunately this truth is inconvenient for those that like to assume there is a simple class war/capitalist divide and that there is some magic pot of money sitting in the clutches of evil plutocrats that would instantly allow unlimited investment, pay rises and rock bottom fares. Oh, would the answer be so simple...

 

[Merseysider]

and not a scam rip off of £571 (£433 for me as a result of the 16-25 Railcard

£376.80 with railcard The discount is 34% not 24%.

The ALR is of course valid on Caledonian Sleeper (with a berth supplement or free seat reservation) so anyone wanting Euston / Scotland etc can still make an early arrival without needing to pay extra / gamble on Avanti.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

£376.80 with railcard The discount is 34% not 24%.

The ALR is of course valid on Caledonian Sleeper (with a berth supplement or free seat reservation) so anyone wanting Euston / Scotland etc can still make an early arrival without needing to pay extra / gamble on Avanti.

Ahh, must have got confused then! Turns it's £433 for 2 weeks or £376.80 for one week

 

[DaveB10780]

The irony is that the ALR didn't used to have these restrictions placed on them. I can't remember the exact date, but it was some time in the mid-to-late 2000s that Money Saving Expert transport minister Lord Adonis made reference to the fact that the ALR undercut quite a few different long distance anytime returns and weekly season tickets (mainly those on the likes of then Virgin Trains, Cross Country and GNER/NXEC), which increased the uptake of the ALR quite significantly with long-distance commuters. Of course, these operators were very unhappy with losing out on revenue from the more expensive returns/weekly seasons, so pushed for restrictions to be added to the ALR to curb their usage in this way. In essence it's a very similar situation to the restrictions Virgin/Avanti added to off-peak tickets from Lancaster to London to avoid the undercutting of Preston to London anytime tickets that was happening several years ago.

Especially since commuter numbers are supposed to have dropped maybe they should at least drop some of the restrictions? How about simply keeping the arrival restrictions and removing the departure restrictions.

 

[pnepaul]

How often are these restrictions enforced? The last time I had an ALR often the TM manager would just glance at it at the ticket check. I had a couple say "not seen one of them for a while"

 

[XAM2175]

The ALR is of course valid on Caledonian Sleeper (with a berth supplement or free seat reservation) so anyone wanting Euston / Scotland etc can still make an early arrival without needing to pay extra / gamble on Avanti.

Unless you're using one of the Railcards that CS don't accept.

 

[Merseysider]

Unless you're using one of the Railcards that CS don't accept.

To the best of my knowledge interavailable tickets with any railcard discount are accepted, but the railcards they don't like can't be used on CS room supplements (in line with other railcards), nor their dedicated Advance fares or berth-inclusive tickets.

Edit: quote from website

All Railcard holders can purchase discounted National Rail Anytime / Off-Peak / Super Off-Peak tickets and travel in our seated accommodation. To travel in one of our Rooms, you will also be required to purchase a Room Supplement. There are no discounts for Railcard holders on Room Supplements. More details can be found on the Room Supplement Page.

 

[XAM2175]

To the best of my knowledge interavailable tickets with any railcard discount are accepted, but the railcards they don't like can't be used on CS room supplements (in line with other railcards), nor their dedicated Advance fares or berth-inclusive tickets.

Ah, my mistake. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[rg177]

How often are these restrictions enforced? The last time I had an ALR often the TM manager would just glance at it at the ticket check. I had a couple say "not seen one of them for a while"

The last one I did - first train I caught had an infamous Newcastle-based LNER TM who asked where I was going as I was barred from arriving into King's Cross at the time it was scheduled in.

Thankfully I was just going to York...

The main issue I've had is the fact it barely works any gates which results in daft comments from staff who don't know what it is claiming its not valid at "their" station because the gates said so (Liverpool St, Waterloo, Southend Victoria...)

 

[RJ]

How often are these restrictions enforced? The last time I had an ALR often the TM manager would just glance at it at the ticket check. I had a couple say "not seen one of them for a while"

It’s not, in my experience.

 

[Ianigsy]

It’s one of many areas where the railway industry as a whole finds it too much trouble to provide a fairly simple product.

The basic product description- a ticket that you can use on any train in England, Scotland and Wales at any time - is easy enough- it’s the number of fingers in the pie, each concerned about losing out from any change and having to be reassured, which is the problem. There should still be a price point for an ALR with completely unlimited validity, but nobody wants to put their finger on it.

 

[Flying Snail]

It’s one of many areas where the railway industry as a whole finds it too much trouble to provide a fairly simple product.

The basic product description- a ticket that you can use on any train in England, Scotland and Wales at any time - is easy enough- it’s the number of fingers in the pie, each concerned about losing out from any change and having to be reassured, which is the problem. There should still be a price point for an ALR with completely unlimited validity, but nobody wants to put their finger on it.

Its more that the price it would have to be set to stop it from being used to undercut the Anytime fares on peak business trains for the likes of Mamchester/Stockport/Leeds/Wakefield/York - London would be astronomical.

 

[DeverseSam]

Luckily there are alternatives

For Leicester: LNWR to Nuneaton, then CrossCountry to Leicester

For Nottingham & Derby: Thameslink to Peterborough, LNER to Newark North Gate, EMR to Nottingham & Derby

For Sheffield: Thameslink to Peterborough, LNER to Leeds or Wakefield Westgate, Northern to Sheffield

Alternatively rent a cheap flat in N Ireland for a few weeks and then you can buy a Interrail with full GB validity !

 

[DaveB10780]

Its more that the price it would have to be set to stop it from being used to undercut the Anytime fares on peak business trains for the likes of Mamchester/Stockport/Leeds/Wakefield/York - London would be astronomical.

If the concern is mostly for flow into London why not just keep the arrival restriction which would cover the same purpose as far I can see. If I was on an ALR in London for the night and couldn't get an early Scotland train it would be pretty frustrating.

 

[Haywain]

If the concern is mostly for flow into London why not just keep the arrival restriction which would cover the same purpose as far I can see.

Because the concern was also about business travel from London. However, it's frustrating that the restriction from King's Cross in particular is more punitive than the normal Super Off Peak restrictions.