All line rover questions

[crucible72]

Would it be a realistic goal to travel with all the different train companies (excluding the ones not allowed)
using a 7 day all line rover? If so, does anyone have any idea what the itinerary would look like?

The list of them I have is as follows (I have excluded the Island Line and the Caledonian Sleeper as the former
would use up too much non-train time and the latter appears to be fully booked for dates I tried):
Avanti West Coast, c2c, Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, Elizabeth Line, Gatwick Express,
Grand Central Railway, Great Northern, Great Western Railway, Greater Anglia, Hull Trains, London North Eastern Railway,
London North Western Railway, London Overground, Lumo, Merseyrail, Northern, ScotRail, South Western Railway, Southeastern,
Southern, Stansted Express, Thameslink, TransPennine Express, Transport for Wales, West Midlands Railway.

My starting point on the first day would be Exeter St Davids. I'd need to average about 4 new TOC's a day, so
I'm wondering if it might be a little ambitious. If I've listed a company that the ALR isn't valid on, then please tell me;
I don't want to get into trouble!

Also, as the ALR isn't valid on the London Underground, what would be the best way of getting across London
or avoiding London entirely? For example if I was at Waterloo or Paddington and wanted to get to Kings Cross/Euston/St Pancras
so I could travel onwards from there, or vice versa.

Finally, it's been said before that one of the benefits of the ALR is that it doesn't matter where or when you travel, you
can just change your plans at the last minute. However, I'm a little unsure as to how this benefit would be put into
practice. For example, suppose I planned one day to visit Aberdeen and booked into accommodation there. Then, at the
last minute the train I was going to catch gets cancelled so I decide to visit Brighton instead. Surely I would have just wasted
money on my Aberdeen accommodation and would be stuck trying to find somewhere near Brighton to stay at the last minute.

If anyone has any advice regarding these matters it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Would it be a realistic goal to travel with all the different train companies (excluding the ones not allowed)
using a 7 day all line rover? If so, does anyone have any idea what the itinerary would look like?

The list of them I have is as follows (I have excluded the Island Line and the Caledonian Sleeper as the former
would use up too much non-train time and the latter appears to be fully booked for dates I tried):
Avanti West Coast, c2c, Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, Elizabeth Line, Gatwick Express,
Grand Central Railway, Great Northern, Great Western Railway, Greater Anglia, Hull Trains, London North Eastern Railway,
London North Western Railway, London Overground, Lumo, Merseyrail, Northern, ScotRail, South Western Railway, Southeastern,
Southern, Stansted Express, Thameslink, TransPennine Express, Transport for Wales, West Midlands Railway.

My starting point on the first day would be Exeter St Davids. I'd need to average about 4 new TOC's a day, so
I'm wondering if it might be a little ambitious. If I've listed a company that the ALR isn't valid on, then please tell me;
I don't want to get into trouble!

Also, as the ALR isn't valid on the London Underground, what would be the best way of getting across London
or avoiding London entirely? For example if I was at Waterloo or Paddington and wanted to get to Kings Cross/Euston/St Pancras
so I could travel onwards from there, or vice versa.

Finally, it's been said before that one of the benefits of the ALR is that it doesn't matter where or when you travel, you
can just change your plans at the last minute. However, I'm a little unsure as to how this benefit would be put into
practice. For example, suppose I planned one day to visit Aberdeen and booked into accommodation there. Then, at the
last minute the train I was going to catch gets cancelled so I decide to visit Brighton instead. Surely I would have just wasted
money on my Aberdeen accommodation and would be stuck trying to find somewhere near Brighton to stay at the last minute.

If anyone has any advice regarding these matters it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

You can avoid London Terminals by making use of London Overground and its connections on the periphery of the Capital.
So for example From Waterloo - Kings X you could change at Clapham Junction and Gospel Oak for, say, Harringay Green Lanes for a short walk to Harringay (ECML)
For WCML Change at Willesden for the DC Lines to Watford
West Hampstead Thameslink for Northbound MML.
Despite what TFL might try and tell you an ALR IS Valid on Overground, however be prepared for perhaps a interesting exchange at the Gateline at Harringay/W Hampstead!

Edit: Just remembered Harringay and Harringay Green Lanes aren't gated! West Hampstead (both) definately are!
Another useful link I have used is the Romford - Upminster service. It's the only real way of accessing C2C Without passing a gateline.

 

[Kite159]

And remember some of the London terminals are only a couple miles apart so can easily be walked (Charing Cross towards Euston).
Plus Thameslink

 

[Farigiraf]

I think if you just want to use all TOCs in 7 days it's very possible, even with the Island line (boat takes 10 minutes, ryde to shanklin and back is never more than 3 hrs), but if you want a proper (scenic) route with all of them I'd say take out the open access operators and maybe the "___ Midlands Railway"-s.
For a start, from Exeter I'd GWR 1 stop to Central, SWR to southampton, Southern/SWR to Portsmouth, ferry to IOW, Ryde-Lake (or all to shanklin if you're good on time) and back, southern to Brighton, Thameslink wivelsfield, southern hastings, southeastern to bromley south, train to Clapham junction, and centre yourself there (Time taken depends on connections)

 

[APT618S]

Also, as the ALR isn't valid on the London Underground, what would be the best way of getting across London
or avoiding London entirely? For example if I was at Waterloo or Paddington and wanted to get to Kings Cross/Euston/St Pancras
so I could travel onwards from there, or vice versa.

Use of the Elizabeth line and/or Thameslink links these. (Travel valid on these with ALR.)

e.g Waterloo East to London Bridge then Thameslink to St Pancras.
Also Paddington - Farringdon - St Pancras
Can also get to Liverpool St / Stratford.

 

[30907]

For example, suppose I planned one day to visit Aberdeen and booked into accommodation there. Then, at the last minute the train I was going to catch gets cancelled so I decide to visit Brighton instead. Surely I would have just wasted
money on my Aberdeen accommodation and would be stuck trying to find somewhere near Brighton to stay at the last minute.

If you want that degree of flexibility, you obviously have to book cancellable accommodation.
At a more realistic level, I would avoid booking somewhere non-refundable at the end of a long day with lots of connections and no time buffer. I have recently experienced a 3.5hr delay (in France) which is exceptional but can happen - always have a Plan B.

 

[crucible72]

I think if you just want to use all TOCs in 7 days it's very possible, even with the Island line (boat takes 10 minutes, ryde to shanklin and back is never more than 3 hrs), but if you want a proper (scenic) route with all of them I'd say take out the open access operators and maybe the "___ Midlands Railway"-s.
For a start, from Exeter I'd GWR 1 stop to Central, SWR to southampton, Southern/SWR to Portsmouth, ferry to IOW, Ryde-Lake (or all to shanklin if you're good on time) and back, southern to Brighton, Thameslink wivelsfield, southern hastings, southeastern to bromley south, train to Clapham junction, and centre yourself there (Time taken depends on connections)

First night in Clapham then, you suggest? I followed your route as far as Hastings, but I couldn't find any direct trains from Hastings to Bromley South, or Bromley South to
Clapham Junction. There are direct trains from Hastings to Clapham Junction though, so maybe that would work?

The open access operators I could find were Grand Central, Hull Trains and Lumo. Does that cover them all (that are allowed with an ALR)?

 

[stadler]

Ffestiniog Railway and Welsh Highland Railway both also accept the All Line Rover too. These are the only two heritage railways to accept this ticket. So you could also include these two railways.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think if you just want to use all TOCs in 7 days it's very possible, even with the Island line (boat takes 10 minutes, ryde to shanklin and back is never more than 3 hrs),

Some helpful suggestions, other than that the ferry (boat) to/from the mainland and the Isle of Wight normally takes just a bit longer than 10 minutes (!)

 

[stadler]

Some helpful suggestions, other than that the ferry (boat) to/from the mainland and the Isle of Wight normally takes just a bit longer than 10 minutes (!)

I think he is probably referring to the Hovercraft which does take just 10 minutes. On the Catamaran it takes 22 minutes. On the large vehicle ferries it takes 45 minutes.

 

[Farigiraf]

First night in Clapham then, you suggest? I followed your route as far as Hastings, but I couldn't find any direct trains from Hastings to Bromley South, or Bromley South to
Clapham Junction. There are direct trains from Hastings to Clapham Junction though, so maybe that would work?

I suggested that route so you could tick off Southeastern, I thought the Hastings trains stopped at Bromley, my mistake, but you could have gotten off at Sevenoaks and took the thameslink for same result, to Clapham Junction I didn't mean a direct service just any suburban connecting train and change at Nunhead, Denmark Hill or Tulse/Herne Hill etc. because if you want to go north avoiding London Terminals you will have to go via Clapham to get to Stratford.

Some helpful suggestions, other than that the ferry (boat) to/from the mainland and the Isle of Wight normally takes just a bit longer than 10 minutes (!)

I did mean the Hovercraft, although combined with the walk it does add up to similar times to the ferry.
Would the ALR allow usage on the Wightlink ferry or is it seperate, since tickets to IOW stations do include it

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I did mean the Hovercraft, although combined with the walk it does add up to similar times to the ferry.
Would the ALR allow usage on the Wightlink ferry or is it seperate, since tickets to IOW stations do include it

Thanks for so clarifying. Moot point is whether a hovercraft is a "boat" as such, but essentially it fulfils the purpose of conveying passengers across the Solent so fair enough. Good question as to whether an All Line Rover allows travel by any ferry/hovercraft to/from the Isle of Wight without any additional fares being payable.

 

[crucible72]

Every time I search for a London North Western Railway train, it comes up as West Midlands instead.
Are the two considered the same?

 

[Farigiraf]

Every time I search for a London North Western Railway train, it comes up as West Midlands instead.
Are the two considered the same?

London Northwestern Railway and West Midlands Railway are owned by West Midlands Trains. (note the slight difference)
Same TOC, different branding and fares

 

[Hadders]

London Northwestern Railway and West Midlands Railway are owned by West Midlands Trains. (note the slight difference)
Same TOC, different branding and fares

Similarly Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Southern and Thameslink are not train operating companies but brand names operated by the train operating company called Govia Thameslink Railway.

Stansted Express is not a train operating company. It is a brand name used by the Greater Anglia which is a train operating company.

 

[Falcon1200]

The most time-efficient way of covering Scotrail (without having to go very far into Scotland!) would be Carlisle-Gretna Green and return, journey time around 15 minutes each way.

 

[Farigiraf]

The most time-efficient way of covering Scotrail (without having to go very far into Scotland!) would be Carlisle-Gretna Green and return, journey time around 15 minutes each way.

Sometimes if you want to cover the intercity TOCs- Avanti, LNER, XC, TPE, ECML Open Access- it's easier to just do a Scotland loop (Up to Edinburgh ECML, scotrail to Glasgow, back via WCML (especially if you do want to do Lumo, GC, HT etc)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The most time-efficient way of covering Scotrail (without having to go very far into Scotland!) would be Carlisle-Gretna Green and return, journey time around 15 minutes each way.

...that's true but you'd have an hour's fester - most of the return "connections" are either just one minute or are slightly negative.

Having said that, there are perfect connections earlier and later in the day... 10.08 at Gretna for Glasgow gives at 10.26 back to Carlisle and 18.11 at Gretna for Dumfries gives an 18.25 back to Carlisle.

Plan carefully, and this is 100% the best way of ticking ScotRail; off the list.

 

[A S Leib]

It's possible – at least, should be possible – to do them all in one day.

05:46 Glasgow Queen Street – Helensburgh Upper (Caledonian Sleeper)
06:54 Helensburgh Central – Partick (ScotRail)
07:52 Glasgow Central – Edinburgh (CrossCountry)
09:24 Edinburgh – Newcastle (Lumo)
11:07 Newcastle – York (TransPennine Express)
12:43 York – Selby (Northern)
13:13 (delayed; scheduled for 13:08) Selby – Doncaster (Hull Trains)
13:38 Doncaster – York (LNER)
16:54 Manchester Piccadilly – Liverpool South Parkway (East Midlands Railway)
17:41 Liverpool South Parkway – Hunts Cross (Merseyrail)
17:58 Liverpool South Parkway – Runcorn (TfW Rail)
18:52 Runcorn – Crewe (WMT)
19:27 Crewe – London Euston (Avanti)
21:35 London Marylebone – Wembley Stadium (Chiltern)
22:18 Ealing Broadway – London Paddington (GWR)
22:58 Vauxhall – London Waterloo (SWR)
23:06 London Waterloo East – London Charing Cross (Southeastern)
23:26 London Blackfriars – Farringdon (GTR)
23:30 Farringdon – London Liverpool Street (Elizabeth Line)
23:39 London Liverpool Street – Stratford (c2c)
23:50 Stratford – London Liverpool Street (Greater Anglia)
00:03 Lea Valley line service from London Liverpool Street (London Overground)

Grand Central would have been possible as well had it not been for cancellations.

 

[crucible72]

It's possible – at least, should be possible – to do them all in one day.

05:46 Glasgow Queen Street – Helensburgh Upper (Caledonian Sleeper)
06:54 Helensburgh Central – Partick (ScotRail)
07:52 Glasgow Central – Edinburgh (CrossCountry)
09:24 Edinburgh – Newcastle (Lumo)
11:07 Newcastle – York (TransPennine Express)
12:43 York – Selby (Northern)
13:13 (delayed; scheduled for 13:08) Selby – Doncaster (Hull Trains)
13:38 Doncaster – York (LNER)
16:54 Manchester Piccadilly – Liverpool South Parkway (East Midlands Railway)
17:41 Liverpool South Parkway – Hunts Cross (Merseyrail)
17:58 Liverpool South Parkway – Runcorn (TfW Rail)
18:52 Runcorn – Crewe (WMT)
19:27 Crewe – London Euston (Avanti)
21:35 London Marylebone – Wembley Stadium (Chiltern)
22:18 Ealing Broadway – London Paddington (GWR)
22:58 Vauxhall – London Waterloo (SWR)
23:06 London Waterloo East – London Charing Cross (Southeastern)
23:26 London Blackfriars – Farringdon (GTR)
23:30 Farringdon – London Liverpool Street (Elizabeth Line)
23:39 London Liverpool Street – Stratford (c2c)
23:50 Stratford – London Liverpool Street (Greater Anglia)
00:03 Lea Valley line service from London Liverpool Street (London Overground)

Grand Central would have been possible as well had it not been for cancellations.

Thanks, that's a great list, not quite all the ones I had in my original list, but certainly most of them.
It's a very impressive number to cover in one day, which would leave me time to leisurely do the remaining
few the rest of the week. I fear though that sticking to such a tight itinerary wouldn't be realistically possible in reality,
as delays and cancellations are so common. But it would certainly be fun to try!