All-Operator Bus Maps & Open Bus Data

[Dai Corner]

The following discussion started in the TrawsCymru thread but is off-topic there so I've started this one.

I guess you mean that most tourists go by car, but I expect those that do use public transport will mostly be using rail rather than bus. If only because they don't know the bus exists.

In the other direction, when I go on holiday to England I find it very difficult to find details of what bus services exist and am largely restricted to rail travel as a result. I find the Traveline sites aren't very user friendly (and do you have to find the right regional one or can, for example, Traveline Cymru be used to plan journeys in Hampshire?). Unfortunately, to find route maps and timetables you have to first work out what bus operator(s) serve the area and/or figure out which side of the county border the town you're heading to is to go to the correct council's website. Even then, some councils/operators don't have a route map for the area and some don't even have timetables and just direct you to Traveline.

England do have Bus Open Data whereby all operators are required to upload their routes, timetables and real time running data to a central database which third parties can use to provide the kind of info you want to the public.

Timetables and indivdual route maps are available but nobody's done an all-operator area map outside London as far as I'm aware.

Try http://www.busatlas.uk/ for the all operator maps. It's still a work in progress at the moment, with only one covering part of Wales so far: http://www.busatlas.uk/busatlas13_southeastwales_2022_01.pdf

Regionally, the West of England Combined Authority (i.e. Bristol, South Glos and Bath North East Somerset) has a series of all-operator maps available as hard copy as well as online.

The maps mentioned are useful, thanks, and I'd be interested to hear of any others.

What I'm imagining is a map generated from Bus Open Data which would be updated automatically as new data is uploaded by operators. Google Maps and Bustines.org do this for individual routes so the data and technology is almost there.

 

[higthomas]

I've often thought this would be possible and very very useful.
As with all things based on open bus data, it would probably look dreadful where routes have badly entered/irregular data.

 

[Ken H]

The following discussion started in the TrawsCymru thread but is off-topic there so I've started this one.









The maps mentioned are useful, thanks, and I'd be interested to hear of any others.

What I'm imagining is a map generated from Bus Open Data which would be updated automatically as new data is uploaded by operators. Google Maps and Bustines.org do this for individual routes so the data and technology is almost there.

The route maps on Bustimes look bad. They have the stops plotted on the map but then assume the bus goes in a straight line between stops, which is nonsense. And they don't cope well in areas without bus stops, where you can hail the bus anywhere.

But the big problem with bustimes is unadvertised through services. in N Yorks the 580 does Skipton - Settle.

The 581 does Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale. But Bustimes doesn't know its actually a through service. Actually it becomes an 81/82 at K Lonsdale and goes on to Lancaster. (Actually the timetable on DalesBus website does show the through services)

 

[pepperpot80]

There are some all operator maps - see Devon County Council for a longstanding example, and there are multiple others of varying quality, detail, and currency. Bus Atlas is doing a laudable job which I found extremely useful on a recent trip when planning some options between two places. Barry Doe's timetable directory references if good quality maps are available in either a local operator or authority's public transport information provision. It seems that there are a few people snooping round possible options for building such a map programmatically of late - Tom Forth recently asked a related question.

It's worthwhile someone doing this, because a journey planner just doesn't cut it for most of the journeys I make, and trying to use multiple timetables is too work-intense (I don't want to spend half an hour scanning TTs for a half hour journey). Usually I'm looking for options, to understand where I might be able to go, or how I can get close to somewhere using public transport. Journey planners still aren't cut out for most of the scut-work of living life only using public transport - I speak from 20 years of experience.

Doing this well, and programmatically (i.e. without excess ongoing effort), needs more than just bus open data. It would require a good understanding of how to logically categorise route frequencies, and for geographical accuracy, would need to use the Ordnance Survey Highways Master Map intelligently, to map bus schedule route traces to known carriageways, and eliminate inappropriate routings (as well as properly incorporating bus-only carriageways).

 

[danielcanning]

What’s the point in producing county bus maps anymore? Bus services are in such a state of flux nowadays you’d need a new updated map at least every month.

 

[Dai Corner]

What’s the point in producing county bus maps anymore? Bus services are in such a state of flux nowadays you’d need a new updated map at least every month.

That's why I'd like to see online maps produced from Bus Open Data which would automatically be up to date (provided operators kept their uploads up to date!).

 

[Citistar]

Bus Open Data needs to be rationalised before we start using it to generate maps. There is so much irrelevant data added to the system that it seems to defeat the purpose of the system.

There either needs to be two levels of data (perhaps a complete set and a public facing set) or services which are neither aimed nor available to the general public need to be omitted from the main set. There also needs to be much better quality control to prevent some of the absolute dross of data which is added to the system by people who clearly have shortcomings in their understandings of either the software of the services they are processing.

 

[APT618S]

Not sure if it is of any use but the UK Bus Checker App will give SINGLE route maps. I use this a lot alongside bustimes.org.
The route maps follow the roads unlike bustimes.org !
There is also a find my location feature.
Maps can be accessed either via the search function or the departure list at a bus stop.