Altered Settle-Carlisle and Bentham line services from 17 Feb

[Bletchleyite]

With the DMU shortage and the obvious issues with DMUs under the wires, if they just tidied up the connections would this be a bad thing at all? It's what happens at Ormskirk and Kirkby anyway.

 

[WesternLancer]

With the DMU shortage and the obvious issues with DMUs under the wires, if they just tidied up the connections would this be a bad thing at all? It's what happens at Ormskirk and Kirkby anyway.

Decent connection would seem perfectly adequate solution really.

 

[tbtc]

With the DMU shortage and the obvious issues with DMUs under the wires, if they just tidied up the connections would this be a bad thing at all? It's what happens at Ormskirk and Kirkby anyway.

Certainly worth considering, at least limiting the longer distance services to a bi-hourly path south of Skipton (and then the operator of the Northern franchise can decide whether they would prefer to couple up Carlisle/Lancaster DMUs or not).

The Aire Valley line has had the nonsense of crammed four coach EMUs being inadequate for demand but then paths allocated for two coach DMUs (because the handful heading to Bentham etc outweigh the larger numbers heading to Keighley etc)

 

[AndrewE]

Decent connection would seem perfectly adequate solution really.

... apart from the fact that we are talking about (formerly) through long-distance services - even if the Bentham line trains do stop quite a lot!
I didn't notice any semi-fast Leeds or Bradford trains on the current timetable, so to call at every gate-post en route to Skipton where you now have to change (and where good connections have deliberately been broken) further degrades whatever attractions the service once had.
Pity they haven't arranged it so that the tight connection is cross-platform and the longer one is the one requiring a transfer over to or from the bay.
It is clear that maintaining (or enhancing) the passenger experience isn't one of their priorities.

 

[geoffk]

I'm told that this temporary timetable will be in force until October. Does it really take that long to put in the new Leeds platform? If that's the case, then the May leaflets should have the Leeds connecting times shown.

 

[30907]

Also I note that the 1258 departure from Skipton to Lancaster has been retimed to leave 5 minutes early, even though it is the same time from the next stop onwards. I presume it is to break the connection out of the 1251 arrival from Bradford... seems as though they are determined to inconvenience the passengers as much as possible!
Seamless journeys: what are they?

No, it's to vacate the platform to allow the up Carlisle (which is probably rath3r busier) to use it and connect into the up Bradford. It would make more sense to retime the 1256 Skipton-Leeds, which seems a very odd working.
If it's lasting till October, a fuller retime could be considered, though it would be difficult or impossible at the Lancaster end.

 

[Bantamzen]

Certainly worth considering, at least limiting the longer distance services to a bi-hourly path south of Skipton (and then the operator of the Northern franchise can decide whether they would prefer to couple up Carlisle/Lancaster DMUs or not).

The Aire Valley line has had the nonsense of crammed four coach EMUs being inadequate for demand but then paths allocated for two coach DMUs (because the handful heading to Bentham etc outweigh the larger numbers heading to Keighley etc)

Allow me to correct that for you, the Aire valley has the nonsense of lack of platform capacity for longer than 4 car EMUs despite the obvious demand. The handful of DMUs passing through are little more than a distraction from the real problem, and they could easily be accommodated if the EMUs were able to be longer.

 

[30907]

Allow me to correct that for you, the Aire valley has the nonsense of lack of platform capacity for longer than 4 car EMUs despite the obvious demand. The handful of DMUs passing through are little more than a distraction from the real problem, and they could easily be accommodated if the EMUs were able to be longer.

And AFAIK there is precisely ONE booked 2-car in each peak, neither of which has been altered to run west of Skipton only.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I've long thought that the Lancaster service would be sensibly stopped at Skipton, assuming the connections were reasonable. The Carlisle service probably not, if only because of the more iconic nature of the line.

 

[xotGD]

The timetable posters don't show the connection times to or from Leeds. Very poor.

 

[Bovverboy]

Line closed at Wennington since yesterday afternoon (flooding).

 

[Roose]

Maybe the change of trains is to help relieve backside-numbing of passengers travelling from Carlisle to Leeds?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe the change of trains is to help relieve backside-numbing of passengers travelling from Carlisle to Leeds?

More the rattled ears from the Class 158!

 

[Bovverboy]

Skipton - Lancaster reopened from midmorning today.

 

[maycli]

Please can someone put me right? I am due to travel to Skipton on Tues 25th Feb. I want to travel on what is the 1033 from Morecambe. I can buy a ticket, the 17th Feb timetable says it is running but yet people are talking about withdrawl of this service. Yes I suppose I could ring Northern Rail. Just interested where the withdrawl details came from.

 

[30907]

Please can someone put me right? I am due to travel to Skipton on Tues 25th Feb. I want to travel on what is the 1033 from Morecambe. I can buy a ticket, the 17th Feb timetable says it is running but yet people are talking about withdrawl of this service. Yes I suppose I could ring Northern Rail. Just interested where the withdrawl details came from.

As stated in my opening post, it is withdrawn between Skipton and Leeds. I don't think anyone has suggested on here that it is withdrawn beween Morecambe and Skipton (floods apart, of course). Hooe that sets your mind at rest.

 

[maycli]

Thank you. Should be more careful when I read things.

 

[30907]

Thank you. Should be more careful when I read things.

No problem, easily done. The rationale behind running the 1256 electric ex Skipton mentioned upthread is explained on this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/random-skipton-to-leeds-express-train.200889/

 

[Glenn1969]

Not sure about the 1256 taking the path of the terminated train when it leaves 2 minutes before the other train arrives in Skipton. You would have thought they would have let it connect

 

[30907]

Not sure about the 1256 taking the path of the terminated train when it leaves 2 minutes before the other train arrives in Skipton. You would have thought they would have let it connect

It is exactly in the path. Leaving aside the platforming issues also discussed upthread, the original 2 minutes booked stop wouldnt allow time to connect, and running it later would lose its path into Leeds.
A solution would be to let it depart at 1301 non stop, I suppose.

 

[Class 170101]

The schedule has some pathing time that could be eaten up to start later from Skipton, however I think the atrrival into platform 3 from Settle is waiting a departure towards Settle around 12:55.

 

[Condor7]

It is exactly in the path. Leaving aside the platforming issues also discussed upthread, the original 2 minutes booked stop wouldnt allow time to connect, and running it later would lose its path into Leeds.
A solution would be to let it depart at 1301 non stop, I suppose.

Rather than changing the Skipton to Leeds path I was thinking more trying to find an extra 5 minutes between Carlisle and Skipton, and pathing issues are much less a problem on that section.

 

[30907]

Rather than changing the Skipton to Leeds path I was thinking more trying to find an extra 5 minutes between Carlisle and Skipton, and pathing issues are much less a problem on that section.

But as already mentioned, there isn't a spare platform at Skipton to allow an earlier arrival (except 4, which understandably tends to be reserved for freight).

 

[AndrewE]

But as already mentioned, there isn't a spare platform at Skipton to allow an earlier arrival (except 4, which understandably tends to be reserved for freight).

That's clever. Looking at RTT there seem to be no more than 4 or 5 per day which actually run, and that's taking both directions together (but not counting the overnight freights.) I would have thought that maintaining the quality of passenger services on 2 long-distance routes might be a priority... but then what do I know? I'm only a (distinctly unimpressed) passenger nowadays!

 

[Bevan Price]

Would it be feasible to temporarily run the affected Carlisle / Morecambe services to/from Bradford Forster Square, which ought to give improved connections to/from Leeds?

 

[AndrewE]

Would it be feasible to temporarily run the affected Carlisle / Morecambe services to/from Bradford Forster Square, which ought to give improved connections to/from Leeds?

It would let you run the limited-stop long distance services a bit further south and would provide platform space for the trains (seemingly lacking at Skipton), but it's a long way out of the way if you're going to or from Leeds. At least 10 minutes in each direction if you want to connect.
Changing at Shipley off these might work, but my experience there is that the PIS puts up trains so late (and the distances are so great) that you can't change platforms in time to catch them!

 

[Class 170101]

But perhaps one doesn't need to Chaneg at Shipley but perhaps insert a stop atsay Connonely to interchange on the same platform?

 

[Kite159]

But perhaps one doesn't need to Chaneg at Shipley but perhaps insert a stop atsay Connonely to interchange on the same platform?

Or suggest that passengers for Leeds should change at Bingley (or Keighley) which are already same platform changes.

 

[Bovverboy]

With the DMU shortage

Northern have just sent a load of Pacers back to Angel trains, so there can't be a DMU shortage. In any case the recent changes haven't saved a DMU diagram, you'd probably need to terminate all the Carlisles/Morecambes at Skipton to save a DMU.

and the obvious issues with DMUs under the wires, if they just tidied up the connections would this be a bad thing at all? It's what happens at Ormskirk and Kirkby anyway.

Passengers for Bradford have always had to change somewhere. On the old times there was a potential saving of five minutes by changing at Shipley instead of Skipton, but only with a platform change. I suspect some passengers would have changed at Skipton all along. That's heading towards Bradford, I haven't checked the other way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Northern have just sent a load of Pacers back to Angel trains, so there can't be a DMU shortage.

That doesn't follow. Pacers have been retired for political reasons. Logic would have been to retain them.