Am I the only passenger who prefers / preferred Pacers to Sprinters ?

[Justin Smith]

In my career as a railway enthusiast, I have experienced all the Pacer and Sprinter varieties. My preference is class 158, then 156, and then the various Pacers with 142 marginally better than the other two. But the 150s are the pits, and the 153s slightly better. Factors are window position, ride quality, general ambience and how photogenic they are. On the latter, the Pacers score highest because of the lack of corridor connections, and the 150/1s do redeem themselves to a degree for that reason.

Not when it's hot and the air conditioning has stopped working (which is usually does....) !

 

[43096]

the second life is with the heritage railways who will celebrate the low running costs of their free-gift Pacers.

They were only donated if they were a Class 143 or 144 acquired from Porterbrook. Angel sold the 142s for fairly sizeable sums - they then donated the money raised to charity. So the 142s were anything but free.

 

[Justin Smith]

In my career as a railway enthusiast, I have experienced all the Pacer and Sprinter varieties. My preference is class 158, then 156, and then the various Pacers with 142 marginally better than the other two. But the 150s are the pits, and the 153s slightly better. Factors are window position, ride quality, general ambience and how photogenic they are. On the latter, the Pacers score highest because of the lack of corridor connections, and the 150/1s do redeem themselves to a degree for that reason.

We caught a Class 158 yesterday and the windows are defn lower than in other types. My lad, a bit small for his age, could get a good view no problem, and they seem very "airy" and light. So yes, certainly rom that point of view, I agree with you, I like the Class 158s, apart from the air con problems, and some non aligning seats. And don't they also have equipment boxes under some seats ?

 

[northwichcat]

And don't they also have equipment boxes under some seats ?

Yes but they seemed to have allowed extra space between seats in those cases, something that hasn't been allowed for with the Northern 150s.

 

[Kaliwax]

For me it depended the type of pacer what turned up and the 150.

I loved the 144s, really enjoyed them.

The Merseytravel refurbed 142s was the worst thing I've seen. Nothing can be worse than that. The ex ATN 142s I didn't mind them, but not popular on a overcrowded service. I quite liked the 142s with the bus seats in, nice views over the Hope Valley Line on them.

150s for me, I actually like chapman seating, so I always preferred the ex FNW 150s. Never was keen on the ex ATN 150s. Thought they was the worst of the 150s for me. Haven't been on any of the EX FGW stock.

FNW 150/2s
FNW 150/1s
144s
EX LM 150/1s
EX LM 150/2s
ATN 150s
FNW 142s
ATN 142s
MT 142s

 

[Bevan Price]

My first experience of 4 wheel railbuses was in Germany, and their ride quality was awful. Just as Germany was getting rid of 4 wheel coaching stock, BR inflicted the Pacers on us, and the riding qualities were just as bad; a big comedown from the Class 108s previously used around Liverpool & Manchester.
Yes - I know the 108s had to go - corrosion and/or asbestos, etc., but I wish BR had waited until something better than Pacers had been available.

Yes, I know the internal layout of 150s is awful, but for ride qualities alone, they were always preferable to any Pacer.

My favourite 2nd generation units were 156s - the only improvement would have been sliding ventilators where passengers could control how far they opened. Hopper ventilators are diabolical - either fully open - and a howling gale, or fully closed and you get overheated on hot summer days. They mostly had good legspace, but some refurbs seem to have got worse.

 

[Mat17]

Yes - I know the 108s had to go - corrosion and/or asbestos, etc.

The 108s were built asbestos free, about the only first gen DMUs to be so.

 

[Welly]

Those of you who miss the Pacers - get yourselves to Hungary, they still have 2 axle DMU cars in service.

 

[Kaliwax]

I never liked a 153, so a pacer for me, was always better than a 153 on its own showing up. Always loved the 156s and 158s, think they're fantastic units.

 

[Justin Smith]

My favourite 2nd generation units were 156s - the only improvement would have been sliding ventilators where passengers could control how far they opened. Hopper ventilators are diabolical - either fully open - and a howling gale, or fully closed and you get overheated on hot summer days. They mostly had good legspace, but some refurbs seem to have got worse.

Class 156s : good "leg space" ?
Not on the ones I ever travelled on !

The Merseytravel refurbed 142s was the worst thing I've seen. Nothing can be worse than that. The ex ATN 142s I didn't mind them, but not popular on a overcrowded service. I quite liked the 142s with the bus seats in, nice views over the Hope Valley Line on them.

150s for me, I actually like chapman seating, so I always preferred the ex FNW 150s. Never was keen on the ex ATN 150s. Thought they was the worst of the 150s for me. Haven't been on any of the EX FGW stock.

Incidentally, when they "upgraded" thin bus type seating to Chapman seating did they keep the same number of rows of seats ? Because if they did then would that not have reduced the already poor legroom ?

 

[Mat17]

Legroom on 150s is horrendous. In fact leg room on most 2nd gen units was awful - some have improved with refurbs.

The 144s had adequate legroom when they had bus seats, when they were refurbished to the high backed seating it became more mixed. The seats nearest the ends of the carriages had legroom, sometimes plenty if near the doors. It became very cramped the closer you got the the bay of four in the middle.

The ATN 142s weren't bad as you could push your knees into the soft back of the seat in front, not great for the person sat in front though.

MR 142s were abominations, the worse trains I've ever travelled on, even worse than the 153s.

 

[Justin Smith]

Legroom on 150s is horrendous. In fact leg room on most 2nd gen units was awful - some have improved with refurbs.

The 144s had adequate legroom when they had bus seats, when they were refurbished to the high backed seating it became more mixed. The seats nearest the ends of the carriages had legroom, sometimes plenty if near the doors. It became very cramped the closer you got the the bay of four in the middle.

The ATN 142s weren't bad as you could push your knees into the soft back of the seat in front, not great for the person sat in front though.

MR 142s were abominations, the worse trains I've ever travelled on, even worse than the 153s.

Yes I agree completely, you wouldn't have thought that the average height of humans is increasing would you.....

 

[Kaliwax]

I always thought the FNW 142s was the best out of the 142s, I didn't mind the bench seating at all, I felt like legroom wasn't as bad as it was on other units. I always liked they had luggage racks on those units.

 

[Justin Smith]

I always thought the FNW 142s was the best out of the 142s, I didn't mind the bench seating at all, I felt like legroom wasn't as bad as it was on other units. I always liked they had luggage racks on those units.

In actual fact Pacers had leg room as good as C150s, and as good, if not better (in some cases) than C158s, the latter supposedly for longer distance journeys. The data is from 2010, it'd be interesting if it is better or worse now !

 

[Andrew090565]

The use of these awful things on our railways turned me away from Rail travel
I cant believe that they were inflicted on the travellers in the North for so long
Utter embarrassment to our country and its transport infrastructure

 

[PMN1]

How much of the savings with the Pacer was down to having a wheel in each corner rather than a bogie mounting for the wheels?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Any drivers on here who much preferred driving Pacers to 150s?! Pacers were a wonderful responsive little machine that would do exactly what you wanted when you wanted!
As a passenger I loved travelling in a Pacer especially those with bus type seats.

I believe TfW drivers did!

 

[Justin Smith]

The use of these awful things on our railways turned me away from Rail travel
I cant believe that they were inflicted on the travellers in the North for so long
Utter embarrassment to our country and its transport infrastructure

But some of us preferred them to C150s !
At least you got a good view out of them ! !