Amended Title - SJP After Penalty Notice Cancelled

[Manda78]

I am hoping for some advice as I really can't afford a solicitor and I have no idea if I should keep fighting or just give up.

Back in October I arrived at Sandbach Station. Normally the station is fairly quiet so I don't need to arrive too early to use the machine. On this day there were people using the machine and I knew I wasn't going to be able to get my ticket in time. I pulled up the Northern Rail app and entered in all my details - the stations, date, time, return etc. All I had to do was press purchase.

The train pulled into the station and the ticket agent was in the entrance way, closer to the closed door. I took a step on the train and showed him my phone and asked if he would prefer for me to purchase on the website or to cancel and do it via him. He said neither, and that he was fining me. Its worth noting - the door was still open and I could have got off the train. Also as per the Northern website "You can buy a last minute train ticket for your journey right up until the trains original departure time on the Northern App". I really don't believe I was trying to evade fare as I never sat down, or tried to go by the agent. I went directly to him. He also advised that even if I had bought the ticket, he still would have fined me as I had to have bought it in advance (I can't remember the specific time he said, but I believe it was 10-15 minutes prior). This is the opposite of what the website says.

On the appeal they note "The panel was of the view that the fact that you had endeavoured to purchase a ticket before boarding indicated that you had been aware of the requirement to do so." Surely this shows I was in no way avoiding paying?

I have spoken to several staff at ticket booths, on the platforms and on the train and all have said its outrageous that I was fined and to fight it.

I have appealed my fine 3 times, and have had all rejected. Yesterday, I got the court papers and now need to decide if I plead guilty or not. I don't have the money to hire a solicitor. However I am in the UK on a Visa - although I do have permanent residence status. Can anyone advise if they think there is any point of me fighting this? I really can't seem to find the infomation of what happens if I plead not guilty but the court disagrees (like does my fine increase, etc).

If it is of the opinion I am 100% in the wrong because I stepped onto the train, I will just plead guilty and hope it doesn't have massive consequences. I wish now that I just paid the fine. The only reason I didn't was because I honestly didn't think I did anything wrong and I assumed an appeal would be warranted. This is totally on me for screwing up.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am hoping for some advice as I really can't afford a solicitor and I have no idea if I should keep fighting or just give up.

Back in October I arrived at Sandbach Station. Normally the station is fairly quiet so I don't need to arrive too early to use the machine. On this day there were people using the machine and I knew I wasn't going to be able to get my ticket in time. I pulled up the Northern Rail app and entered in all my details - the stations, date, time, return etc. All I had to do was press purchase.

The train pulled into the station and the ticket agent was in the entrance way, closer to the closed door. I took a step on the train and showed him my phone and asked if he would prefer for me to purchase on the website or to cancel and do it via him. He said neither, and that he was fining me. Its worth noting - the door was still open and I could have got off the train. Also as per the Northern website "You can buy a last minute train ticket for your journey right up until the trains original departure time on the Northern App". I really don't believe I was trying to evade fare as I never sat down, or tried to go by the agent. I went directly to him. He also advised that even if I had bought the ticket, he still would have fined me as I had to have bought it in advance (I can't remember the specific time he said, but I believe it was 10-15 minutes prior). This is the opposite of what the website says.

On the appeal they note "The panel was of the view that the fact that you had endeavoured to purchase a ticket before boarding indicated that you had been aware of the requirement to do so." Surely this shows I was in no way avoiding paying?

I have spoken to several staff at ticket booths, on the platforms and on the train and all have said its outrageous that I was fined and to fight it.

I have appealed my fine 3 times, and have had all rejected. Yesterday, I got the court papers and now need to decide if I plead guilty or not. I don't have the money to hire a solicitor. However I am in the UK on a Visa - although I do have permanent residence status. Can anyone advise if they think there is any point of me fighting this? I really can't seem to find the infomation of what happens if I plead not guilty but the court disagrees (like does my fine increase, etc).

If it is of the opinion I am 100% in the wrong because I stepped onto the train, I will just plead guilty and hope it doesn't have massive consequences. I wish now that I just paid the fine. The only reason I didn't was because I honestly didn't think I did anything wrong and I assumed an appeal would be warranted. This is totally on me for screwing up.

Welcome to the forum.

It would be really helpful if you could show us everything you have been sent - please make sure you redact it all to hide your name and personal details as you probably won't want the whole internet to see that.

My immediate thought is that the railway appear to be trying to prosecute after a penalty fare has been issued and appealed - which I didn't think was allowed. But it would be helpful to see the papers in case I've completely misunderstood what's happened. And it's not impossible that I've misunderstood the rules as well as the facts.

 

[Manda78]

Thank you for the welcome. It is totally possible that I have worded something incorrectly. Feel free to ask for any clarifications as needed.
Do you mean what they have said in the appeal decisions? and if so, can I just copy and paste (so that I can easy take out my info). Or did you mean the court papers? Or both?

Also I forgot to mention my travel was from Sandbach Station to Crewe. For those not familiar, there are only 2 fares - Peak and off peak. There are no discounts for early purchase that I am aware of. Not sure if that is relevant.

 

[furlong]

We need to understand precisely what processes have occurred. The easiest way for this to happen is if you can upload pictures of the paperwork, covering up personal details etc.

For example, were you originally given a Penalty Fare Notice? If so, we'd like to see it.
Were the 3 appeals, all appeals of that notice using the official appeals system? If so, we'd like to see the details of what you wrote and what response you received, including all the dates and any additional correspondence (e.g. if they asked you extra questions).

If you now have court papers, we'd like to see the details - in particular what the precise charge is and the supporting evidence etc.

The reason for all this is that some train companies and the courts have been caught ignoring the rules in situations similar to the one you describe, so it would be sensible for experts to check your paperwork to check they aren't doing something wrong.

 

[WesternLancer]

I am hoping for some advice as I really can't afford a solicitor and I have no idea if I should keep fighting or just give up.

Back in October I arrived at Sandbach Station. Normally the station is fairly quiet so I don't need to arrive too early to use the machine. On this day there were people using the machine and I knew I wasn't going to be able to get my ticket in time. I pulled up the Northern Rail app and entered in all my details - the stations, date, time, return etc. All I had to do was press purchase.

The train pulled into the station and the ticket agent was in the entrance way, closer to the closed door. I took a step on the train and showed him my phone and asked if he would prefer for me to purchase on the website or to cancel and do it via him. He said neither, and that he was fining me. Its worth noting - the door was still open and I could have got off the train. Also as per the Northern website "You can buy a last minute train ticket for your journey right up until the trains original departure time on the Northern App". I really don't believe I was trying to evade fare as I never sat down, or tried to go by the agent. I went directly to him. He also advised that even if I had bought the ticket, he still would have fined me as I had to have bought it in advance (I can't remember the specific time he said, but I believe it was 10-15 minutes prior). This is the opposite of what the website says.

On the appeal they note "The panel was of the view that the fact that you had endeavoured to purchase a ticket before boarding indicated that you had been aware of the requirement to do so." Surely this shows I was in no way avoiding paying?

I have spoken to several staff at ticket booths, on the platforms and on the train and all have said its outrageous that I was fined and to fight it.

I have appealed my fine 3 times, and have had all rejected. Yesterday, I got the court papers and now need to decide if I plead guilty or not. I don't have the money to hire a solicitor. However I am in the UK on a Visa - although I do have permanent residence status. Can anyone advise if they think there is any point of me fighting this? I really can't seem to find the infomation of what happens if I plead not guilty but the court disagrees (like does my fine increase, etc).

If it is of the opinion I am 100% in the wrong because I stepped onto the train, I will just plead guilty and hope it doesn't have massive consequences. I wish now that I just paid the fine. The only reason I didn't was because I honestly didn't think I did anything wrong and I assumed an appeal would be warranted. This is totally on me for screwing up.

Hi - it's not clear what has happened here so the paperwork will help us understand what has happened. Then people will be able to explain this to you ina clear way to help you understand what options you now have

Did you receive a Penalty Fare (a requirement to pay £100 + the cost of the fare, discounted to £50 if paid promptly)?

If so did you submit an Appeal to that Penalty Fare?

Or were you issued with something else as a sanction? For example something like a 'Travel Incident Report' / 'Report for Investigation' (these do not have Appeal rights, just usually a chance for you to try and explain what happened and then they decide what to do with your case).

 

[Manda78]

Ok not a problem. I will upload a picture of my ticket first. It is a Penalty Fare Notice. It is quite long so I will just include the first part. If you need the rest please let me know. The only thing I see thats relevant on the rest is under Issue Reason: it says No Ticket.


this is the first appeal (2 parts)

 

[Watershed]

We will need the full copy, I'm afraid. Please blank out any names, addresses or reference numbers.

Also, do you have a copy of what you submitted for any of the appeals?

 

[Manda78]

This is the second appeal


Third Appeal

We will need the full copy, I'm afraid. Please blank out any names, addresses or reference numbers.

Also, do you have a copy of what you submitted for any of the appeals?

Ok I will take the full picture. Unfortunately, as it was done on their site I don't think I have copies of what I submitted unless there is somewhere I can find this.

Thank you for your patience with me. I have never had to do something like this before and Im in over my head

This is the fine


I will upload the court files once I get home as I don't have them on me.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is the second appeal
View attachment 177199View attachment 177200

Third Appeal
View attachment 177201View attachment 177202


Ok I will take the full picture. Unfortunately, as it was done on their site I don't think I have copies of what I submitted unless there is somewhere I can find this.

Thank you for your patience with me. I have never had to do something like this before and Im in over my head

This is the fine

I will upload the court files once I get home as I don't have them on me.

Please can you answer the below questions if possible

1) What are the dates of all the appeals (or more specifically the dates when they sent you the decisions on the Appeal stages)

2) When your third Appeal was rejected, why did you not pay the sum concerned?

3) When is the deadline on the court papers that you have received - the deadline by which you have to return the papers to the court?

The reason I ask is I am trying to get a handle on the timeline on all of this.

My hunch is that you would only get court papers if your Appeal failed and then you did not pay the Penalty Fare, so the matter then got escalated to court.

The fundamental problem is that as I understand it there are no grounds in the Penalty Fares regulations (the rules governing Penalty Fares) that allow you to Appeal because you think getting a Penalty Fare is unfair. So the fact that you did not intend to evade the train fare is not a basis on which an Appeal is likely to be successful. Appeals for Penalty fares need to show that the Penalty fare was not issued win line with the regulations.

You are asway required to buy a train ticket before boarding where there are facilities to do so a the station concerned (in this case the ticket machine) - it's unfortunate that on the day you arrived at the station there was along queue at the machine and you were unable to get a ticket in time, but my initial thought is that this does not mean the Penalty Fare was wrongly issued, such that you had grounds for an Appeal to be successful.

If you then failed to pay the Penalty Fare at the end of the process and it has escalated to court your problems have increased.

However, whilst you must not miss the deadline to return the papers to court, hopefully you can wait 24 hours or so to get advice form experts here on what your realistic options now are. With that in mind I thin it is best you hold off returning the court papers for as long as possible, but do not miss the deadline (hence me asking what that court paper deadline is).

 

[furlong]

And all the dates, please - the date you submitted each appeal and the date they responded.

We await details of the court paperwork with great interest. Northern is on record informing the Chief Magistrate that it accepts it cannot bring certain types of prosecutions after a first Penalty Fare appeal has been decided.

 

[Manda78]

I dont know what dates I submitted the appeals on unfortunately. I did it through the online system.

I didn't pay the fine when the third appeal happened as I mistakenly thought it would go to court and I could speak regarding my case. I do realize I am 100% in the wrong for this, and if I could reverse it I would.

I have 21 days to return the court papers. and I have only received them yesterday. By your accounts it seems I am in the wrong (not holding you accountable, I just mean that it looks like I am in the wrong and therefore will have to accept my consequences).

And all the dates, please - the date you submitted each appeal and the date they responded.

We await details of the court paperwork with great interest. Northern is on record informing the Chief Magistrate that it accepts it cannot bring certain types of prosecutions after a first Penalty Fare appeal has been decided.

The date I first submitted my appeal was the day I received the ticket, so October 15, 2025. My first decision from them was October 28th.
date of 2nd appeal decision Nov 12, 2024
date of 3rd appeal decision Nov 25th, 2024

I don't know when I did the 2nd and 3rd appeals, but more than likely I would have done it the day I received the previous appeal decision or the following day. I really truly thought I was in the right, especially after speaking to other railway staff. Otherwise I just would have paid. By walking straight to the agent on the train I would have thought that showed my intent. Now I'm scared to even board the train in case I accidently do something wrong.

 

[skyhigh]

I have 21 days to return the court papers.

We need to see the court papers, urgently.

 

[Manda78]

We need to see the court papers, urgently.

I will upload them within the hour, as soon as I get home.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is very important. It may be that the company is actually statute barred from bringing the prosecution.

 

[furlong]

The date I first submitted my appeal was the day I received the ticket, so October 15, 2025. My first decision from them was October 28th.
date of 2nd appeal decision Nov 12, 2024
date of 3rd appeal decision Nov 25th, 2024

So I think we can safely assume everything happened within the deadlines set out in the regulations, so no complications there.

 

[Manda78]

Court documents

I am not sure if it's important but on the witness statement, he states that when as asked me to produce a ticket or promise to pay I wasn't able to. Technically he never asked me. I approached him and asked what method he would prefer ..for me to press purchase on the webpage or to purchase via him. The train was still in the station at this point. I could have stepped off the train had I thought about it. Although they would say I did step onto the train with out the ticket.

 

[WesternLancer]

OK thanks for replying so quickly with the info you did have to hand

I dont know what dates I submitted the appeals on unfortunately. I did it through the online system.

Probably not vital - as you have the dates for their appeal decisions

I didn't pay the fine when the third appeal happened as I mistakenly thought it would go to court and I could speak regarding my case. I do realize I am 100% in the wrong for this, and if I could reverse it I would.

Well, you could go to court and speak regarding your case, but I suspect that won't help much, so probably not ideal

I have 21 days to return the court papers. and I have only received them yesterday.

It will be 21 days from the date on the court papers, not the date you received them - but that is probably a little while yet, which is good as you have time to make a plan on what is best to do - based on advice from here

By your accounts it seems I am in the wrong (not holding you accountable, I just mean that it looks like I am in the wrong and therefore will have to accept my consequences).

Well, I suspect that you are wrong about the issue that gave rise to the issue of the Penalty Fare (boarding the train without first having bought a ticket) - but that does not necessarily mean that this has to geo to court now, even at this stage

The date I first submitted my appeal was the day I received the ticket, so October 15, 2025. My first decision from them was October 28th.
date of 2nd appeal decision Nov 12, 2024
date of 3rd appeal decision Nov 25th, 2024

Helpful to know - thanks

I don't know when I did the 2nd and 3rd appeals, but more than likely I would have done it the day I received the previous appeal decision or the following day. I really truly thought I was in the right, especially after speaking to other railway staff. Otherwise I just would have paid. By walking straight to the agent on the train I would have thought that showed my intent.

Unfortunately this type of offence does not require intent to be proved. It's strict liability which I understand to mean if you do it you have committed the offence (should they want to prosecute) BUT the Penalty Fare is the least worst sanction - apart from being let off - but it's just bad luck you didn't find this forum for advice after you were given the Penalty Fare on what best to do.
I've read here it's like a speeding offence, you don't have to intend to break the speed limit to be guilty of breaking it

Now I'm scared to even board the train in case I accidently do something wrong.

Anyway - you have a bit of time before the court papers deadline - so I have every confidence that within 24 hours with help from experts here you will have good advice on what is the best way forward on what to do (or the least worst), without you needing to necessarily employ a solicitor.

For example
- it may be that they should not be prosecuting you at all for joining the train without a ticket, or
- it may be that they can only prosecute you for non payment of the Penalty Fare after the Appeals failed
(this is probably why people are keen to see the court papers so that they know exactly what the court action is being taken for)
- or it may be possible to persuade them to withdraw the court action in exchange for you paying them any sum owed and agreeing to settle the matter 'out of court'

EDIT - I see you just uploaded court papers whilst I wrote the above. Looks like you have 21 days from the 24 march as the deadline to return court papers - so hold off returning them yet whilst you get advice from here but be mindful of that deadline

 

[Egg Centric]

This is very important. It may be that the company is actually statute barred from bringing the prosecution.

Certainly looks like it. Indeed Northern's witness statement explicitly states that they withdrew the penalty fare after all three appeals!

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding section 11 of the appeals regulations this is an absolute disgrace when Northern are supposedly under scrutiny atm for previous incompetence. And to think their vision statement says they pursue perfection!

 

[furlong]

Thanks for bringing this case onto the forum.

May I refer you to?
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Railway-Ruling-Final-Judgment-1.pdf

One of the prosecutors here is Northern.

68. In addition to the issue ruled on above both prosecutors invited me to rule on the lawfulness of prosecuting railway offences following an unsuccessful appeal of a penalty fare, it is not thought that is the position with any of the above cases.

69. Both prosecutors provided written and oral submissions on the law, broadly agreeing the position in law is as follows;

Regulation 11(3) contains a clear prohibition on the instigation of proceedings for Byelaw offences, or offences contrary to section 5(3)(a) or (b) of the RRA after an appeal against a penalty fare has been determined. The Railway Operator has the opportunity either within 21 days of receipt of the appeal or prior to determination of the appeal (whichever is the shorter) to cancel the penalty fare and bring a prosecution. It is therefore not deprived of any avenue otherwise open to it. It is simply given a time limit in which to make a decision about which route to pursue. Having made a decision, deliberately, or by acquiescence, the possibility of prosecution is brought to an end. There is nothing within the regulation to suggest that the right to prosecute is resurrected after the penalty fare appeal process has concluded. There are good reasons to prefer such an interpretation: first, appropriate use of the State’s resources: an appeal process, with several levels, should not take place only then to become redundant if a Rail Operator chooses to bring a prosecution, second, it is undesirable to have an independent appeal process and criminal court effectively determining the same substantive issues where they could reach different determinations, third, finality, fourth, an individual appealing a penalty fare is required to set out their grounds for doing so, and may make any representations they wish to: the effect is they may both set out an evidential account, and self-incriminate – there would be unfairness if criminal proceedings could follow that process.

It follows that any prosecution of a Byelaw offence, or section 5(3)(a) or (b) RRA offence, following an unsuccessful appeal of a penalty fare was invalid.

I think Northern may have some serious explaining to do here and you should raise this matter with the DfT/ORR for example via your M.P. or Transport Focus.

Northern had a choice of treating what happened either as a civil matter or as a criminal matter. They chose to treat it as a civil matter. Their recourse, now that you have failed to pay the Penalty Fare, and lost all three appeals. is through the civil courts. (That provides a forum where you can still attempt a last ditch legal argument that Northern is not entitled to the money and you shouldn't have to pay.)

How many times have they done this? Why are they still doing it?

 

[KirkstallOne]

I second what @furlong says. We, along with several other members of this forum, sat through a series of court cases last year where Northern’s KC submitted the above to the court. They are barred from prosecuting you for a byelaw 18 offence. I would plead not guilty on that basis.

I quote the relevant parts of ‘The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018’ below:

Penalty fares and criminal offences​

11.—(1) A person who has been charged a penalty fare under regulation 5(1) is not liable to pay where proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) are also brought against that person in relation to the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket which gave rise to that penalty fare.

(2) If a person to whom paragraph (1) applies has paid the penalty fare, or part of it, the operator on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged must refund that person the amount paid within the period of 10 working days, beginning with the day on which proceedings are brought.

(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or

(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,

whichever is sooner.

(4) The offences referred to in paragraphs (1) and (3) are the offences under—

(a)section 5(3)(a) or (b) of the Regulation of the Railways Act 1889(12);

(b)any byelaw made under—

(i)section 67 of the Transport Act 1962(13);

(ii)section 129 of the Railways Act 1993(14);

(iii)section 219 of the Transport Act 2000(15);

(iv)section 46 of the Railways Act 2005(16).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366

 

[furlong]

Northern's original argument was that the bar on prosecution lapsed at the end of the appeals process - if this were true then such a prosecution as yours could indeed be brought - but as the ruling I quoted above shows, following discussion, Northern revised its position to that set out in paragraph 69.

 

[WesternLancer]

I suspect that given the clock is ticking towards court the OP needs some clear advice on what to write and to whom.

Eg whether to write to Northern’s prosecution unit politely pointing out that the case shouldn’t be being taken to court (and why it shouldn’t), whilst (possibly?) offering to pay just the Penalty Fare and the ticket cost. Informing them they will be pleading not guilty (which then pre supposes the OP is confident in all this to make the arguments outlined here to the court - which is something I’m not sure I would be!)

Or

Urgently using the time between now and court paper deadline to simply request Northern settle out of court and drop the case (a less combative approach but one that might cost a bit more in terms of the settlement costs and is potentially simpler to attempt.

Or

Any other option I’ve not thought of!

I think knowledgeable people on this forum have the confidence to take a combative approach to these things. However we need to accept that someone with a limited grasp of uk train ticket regulations might not want to take that on, and just wants to avoid going to court and being found guilty.

The forum is at its best when people are given the choice between such options and their pros and cons.

And then most importantly given the practical help to see their chosen option through to its conclusion.

 

[Hadders]

This is disgraceful behaviour from Northern and I agree with what @KirkstallOne and @furlong have said. Given everything that has happened with Northern bringing invalid prosecutions I cannot believe they have got something that is so simple so wrong. I wonder if there are any ither similar cases.

The Penalty Fare is due and Northern could attemot to recover this via the Civil Courts but they cannot prosecute you in the Magistrates Court.

 

[furlong]

I suspect that given the clock is ticking towards court the OP needs some clear advice on what to write and to whom.

There's no need to act in a rush here. Give it time for more people to become aware.

I think the ideal end result would be that the OP pays the fare due - no Penalty and no extra costs or fees - in full settlement.
People should first be looking for routes towards achieving that outcome.

 

[Egg Centric]

The Penalty Fare is due and Northern could attemot to recover this via the Civil Courts but they cannot prosecute you in the Magistrates Court.

Not sure I agree even the penalty fare is due - they cancelled it!

Couldn't make it up

 

[furlong]

Not sure I agree even the penalty fare is due - they cancelled it!

Couldn't make it up

Indeed. Now ponder what precisely they cancelled. The Penalty Fare WAS the fare due for the journey made. Is any money still due or is this effectively written off now? This might put the OP in a strong negotiating position if they offer simply to pay the original fare they had ready on their phone in full settlement, a sum they believe might technically no longer be due. (But the figure's so small it's not worth the argument.)

Worth also pointing out that even if they hadn't cancelled the PF, the fact the proceedings have already been brought should mean there no longer remains any liability to pay the PF - see 11(1). I struggle to see how civil recovery would lead to anything useful now.

The mechanism for stopping the proceedings is open to debate - in the first instance persuading, perhaps with some external pressure, Northern to withdraw them given the position they adopted in front of the Chief Magistrate. Failing that, it becomes a matter of choosing one or more procedural mechanisms and hoping Northern doesn't dig its heels in and turn it into a test case in the higher courts. (I think that's unlikely - if you wanted a test case, you wouldn't pick one where an outsider would legitimately wonder why what is reported to have happened needs to be criminalised or penalised at all.)

 

[WesternLancer]

I think Northern may have some serious explaining to do here and you should raise this matter with the DfT/ORR for example via your M.P. or Transport Focus

In theory useful approach but I’d have zero faith in getting any of those three organisations to act and intervene in the timescale available (the court papers deadline).

With your MP you’d have to assume they or a member of their staff could even understand the detail of the problem and that is far from a given.

 

[KirkstallOne]

I think a good approach is to plead not guilty with an outline of your defence, then get in touch with Northern’s DRPU outlining your position (that prosecution is barred due to regulation 11 of the penalty fares regulations).

I would be absolutely amazed if Northern want to take this to trial, particularly given the rather dubious nature of the original offence. As said, if you wanted a test case on this point this would be the last case to choose.

Just to add, I don't see how a not guilty plea would hurt your position. An ideal outcome for you is that the case is withdrawn, or settled for the original fare owing. You have to respond with something or it will be taken as a guilty plea by default (not legally, but practically is my understanding) and presumably you are not inclined to plead guilty. A not guilty plea doesn't preclude negotiations with Northern before a pre-trial hearing can be scheduled, in fact that is expected between a prosecutor and the defence (you) as they both need to understand each others positions.

 

[Manda78]

I am so sorry. I just realised I was sent one other correspondence from them. I totally forgot about it as I was going through a family issue and put the letter aside. This makes me feel even worse as it does mention criminal prosecution and I completely missed it.


I posted that last night but for some reason it didn't upload. I am more than willing to pay a settlement or fine. I did pay my original fare on the day of. In order to get out of Crewe station, where there are barriers, I needed the ticket, plus I needed one to get home. Not that I am going to argue if they just want that paid.

 

[KirkstallOne]

You may wish to redact the case numbers from the uploaded letter. Can I also ask whether the SJP documents uploaded were the complete set received? In particular, was a 'final offer of settlement' included?