An operator 'doing low cost properly' - is it possible without check in?

[JonathanH]

Lumo taking from air is just because LNER is too expensive, anyway. Aside from the earlier first northbound they don't really do anything LNER doesn't, they just undercut them by 30 quid or so. They aren't even doing the low cost thing properly i.e. a low base fare with buy ups e.g. seat selection, bigger bags etc.

I am not sure how 'low cost properly' would work without some facility to check what passengers have with them before they board. 'Check in' leads to costs for staff and infrastructure to enable it. Otherwise it just leads to confrontation on board. I don't really see how it can be done within the fare system easily. It would really need Lumo to sell supplements on their website.

Similarly, seat booking could be charged extra, but I'm not sure which seats in Lumo's largely unidirectional layout command a premium, and sometimes people sit in alternative seats anyway.

How do you think it would work in a one class train, where one of the principles of the operation is fitting as many seats as possible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's already potential conflict on board if someone brings a large bag on board - they have to be told to remove it and themselves. Allowing this officially at a price online or a higher price on board actually reduces the conflict potential.

It's no different to confronting someone who hasn't paid at all.

Like exit row seats, priority seats would command a premium, as might sitting by a window. The very small number of table seats could come at a very high premium.

Yes, it'd have to be on Lumo's website only (if you bought elsewhere or have an Any Permitted ticket you could go there to buy up of course).

 

[gingerheid]

In terms of revenue I feel like they are doing LCC properly. it's definitely less clear what the add-ons could be than for airlines; catering is the only obvious one. Airlines can do more things with luggage because the passengers have to arrive with obvious belongings and go through a process that exists whether or not it is also monetised.

It it is terms of their cost structure that I feel they are doing LCC less properly. I feel like they need to be maximising seats per ECML path and seats per £ to driver. A market in which an aspiring LCC turns up with really small trains seems to me like a dysfunctional one!

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do you think it would work in a one class train, where one of the principles of the operation is fitting as many seats as possible.

Does that not directly describe a Ryanair aircraft or a Megabus/Flixbus too?

 

[JonathanH]

Does that not directly describe a Ryanair aircraft or a Megabus/Flixbus too?

Yes, but the practice with both is that you don't board without first being 'checked in'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In terms of revenue I feel like they are doing LCC properly.

They're not. Apart from food/drink there are no buy-ups at all.

It it is terms of their cost structure that I feel they are doing LCC less properly. I feel like they need to be maximising seats per ECML path and seats per £ to driver. A market in which an aspiring LCC turns up with really small trains seems to me like a dysfunctional one!

Interestingly LCCs tend to go for medium aircraft, typically A320 or 737/8, and not A321 or 737/9, and definitely not wide bodies.

 

[gingerheid]

They're not. Apart from food/drink there are no buy-ups at all.

I don't see how there can be though. Aircraft are boarded in a limited number of places where infrastructure and staffing can be provided and shared between services via (at some point in the process) a single point of access, and people are accustomed to needing to turn up very early to go through the process. Coaches are boarded often in lots of places, but via a single entrance in front of the driver.

Trains are boarded in lots of places where infrastructure and staffing can't be shared, via lots of access points.

There's no clear read across to how you can monetise things that rely on controls at point of boarding.

The clearest comparator product might be FlixTrain. Do they offer any add-ons for their train services that Lumo could offer?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How does seat selection rely on controlled boarding?

I'm not even sure luggage does. You just have to enforce it on board as they do now with the maximum size rule.

 

[cle]

Are you talking about dynamic pricing, or about modular / punitive upsells, like adding a bag or bike?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you talking about dynamic pricing, or about modular / punitive upsells, like adding a bag or bike?

Upsells are a core part of the LCC model. Indeed Ryanair have said many times that they collectively bring in far more money than the base fares do.

Dynamic pricing is too, but arguably because the Lumo Anytime is a reasonable price LNER actually do that more than Lumo do!

 

[SeanG]

I'd say RegioJet are an even better comparison than Felix to a low cost airline. They offer multiple chances to upgrade/buy extras and I have to say are pretty good at what they do

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd say RegioJet are an even better comparison than Felix to a low cost airline. They offer multiple chances to upgrade/buy extras and I have to say are pretty good at what they do

RegioJet is quite an interesting one. What they seem to have done is bought a load of random coaches at a good price, and thought up options for how to sell them at different prices depending on what they offer. It is upsells, but it's not quite the same upsells as most LCCs. It's perhaps comparable to if a LCC bought a load of used planes with business class and had that as an upsell, though.

 

[SeanG]

Fair comment. They are indeed good at the up selling but who can resist beer and a cake for less than £2!?!?