Anarchy in Calais

[St Rollox]

What's the problem with a couple of thousand homeless getting a fresh start in London.

 

[Robertj21a]

What's the problem with a couple of thousand homeless getting a fresh start in London.

Nothing - but where do you put the 10m that eventually follow ?

 

[Antman]

What's the problem with a couple of thousand homeless getting a fresh start in London.

Are you serious? For starters, do you happen to know where in London the necessary amount of housing is sitting gathering dust?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Are you serious? For starters, do you happen to know where in London the necessary amount of housing is sitting gathering dust?

We are a country of 60 million plus. We've also taken a far smaller proportion of migrants than is our due relative to other European countries, and they only exist as a result of a series of events begun by a coalition in which we were a major partner.

Acting like we're the blameless victims and as though all immigrants head to London (they don't) is just silly.

 

[AM9]

Are you serious? For starters, do you happen to know where in London the necessary amount of housing is sitting gathering dust?

All over central London, much of it not ever occupied by its money-laundering owners.

 

[yorksrob]

All over central London, much of it not ever occupied by its money-laundering owners.

Not just money laundering, but also legitimate speculators. The question is, would the Common Market allow us to intervene in the free property market, even if we wanted to.

 

[Jonny]

Perhaps it's time for the Boris water cannons to go on loan to France. The only problem will be keeping the jets away from the OLE.

 

[Antman]

Perhaps it's time for the Boris water cannons to go on loan to France. The only problem will be keeping the jets away from the OLE.

Here, here!

Also need to keep the water cannons away from the electrified fencing
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We are a country of 60 million plus. We've also taken a far smaller proportion of migrants than is our due relative to other European countries, and they only exist as a result of a series of events begun by a coalition in which we were a major par
tner.

Acting like we're the blameless victims and as though all immigrants head to London (they don't) is just silly.

We are obviously a far smaller country than France for example.

The question remains, why are these people not seeking sanctuary in France? I'm not unsympathetic to those who are in genuine need but the vast majority are just freeloaders. This country has been a soft touch for far too long.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Freeloaders who've trekked a couple of thousand miles in pretty terrible conditions?

It's the very idea that "the vast majority are freeloaders" that is simply just not true, and is repeated often to convince people like us that they should be thrown out.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Greenland is a very large island with plenty of spare space for all new immigrants to settle and become homesteaders, which never seemed to bother the Vikings.

Probem solved, just let them continue even further northwards.

 

[Antman]

Freeloaders who've trekked a couple of thousand miles in pretty terrible conditions?

It's the very idea that "the vast majority are freeloaders" that is simply just not true, and is repeated often to convince people like us that they should be thrown out.

Trekked a couple of thousand miles in pretty terrible conditions? Funny that they are still fit enough to scale fences, funny that many of them are wearing designer clothing and have expensive i-phones
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We are a country of 60 million plus. We've also taken a far smaller proportion of migrants than is our due relative to other European countries, and they only exist as a result of a series of events begun by a coalition in which we were a major partner.

Acting like we're the blameless victims and as though all immigrants head to London (they don't) is just silly.

If you want to quote statistics then the amount of migrants per square mile might be the most important one and the UK have by far the largest percentage and that's just the ones we know about, nobody has any idea how many illegals are here

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It seems that once Godwin's Law was demonstrated on this thread, (post #78), a clutch of posters have whipped themselves up into a lather of xenophobic frenzy blaming everything on these unfortunate refugees, and of course the French. In truth, whether they should have stayed in southern Italy or Greece is irrelevant. They are in the EU of which we are a major part!

In the EU they might well be, but they are not citizens of any state that is a member of the EU. Unless of course, Eritrea, Somalia, Ethiopia and Sudan have suddenly been granted associate status of the EU and Brussels has forgotten to notify both France and Britain of the fact...:roll:
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Freeloaders who've trekked a couple of thousand miles in pretty terrible conditions?

It's the very idea that "the vast majority are freeloaders" that is simply just not true, and is repeated often to convince people like us that they should be thrown out.

Why did they not head southwards to South Africa, which would have saved them the crossing of the Mediterranean Sea?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not clear on why the distance travelled should have bearing on whether or not we welcome them here with open arms or not?

 

[Aldaniti]

In the EU they might well be, but they are not citizens of any state that is a member of the EU. Unless of course, Eritrea, Somalia, Ethiopia and Sudan have suddenly been granted associate status of the EU and Brussels has forgotten to notify both France and Britain of the fact...:roll:
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Why did they not head southwards to South Africa, which would have saved them the crossing of the Mediterranean Sea?

Quite right Paul. Britain is a soft touch and word has gone around that Britain is a soft touch. The 10 million arrivals since the mid-nineties have caused untold problems, much in relation to pressure on housing and public services, and still the loons want to let more in. It's one hell of a mess. I just wish we could expel half of our politicians!

 

[AM9]

Not just money laundering, but also legitimate speculators. The question is, would the Common Market allow us to intervene in the free property market, even if we wanted to.

Of course they will. There are restrictions on who can buy property in various localities all over the EU. This government just wants to sell to the highest bidder, meanwhile there are no houses available for the people who need to be near where they work.
London has always been attractive to home buyers but now they are pulling down housing built in the '60s for locals so that gated communities of very rich foreigners can 'speculate', some of it with money from the proceeds of crime.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Trekked a couple of thousand miles in pretty terrible conditions? Funny that they are still fit enough to scale fences, funny that many of them are wearing designer clothing and have expensive i-phones
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If you want to quote statistics then the amount of migrants per square mile might be the most important one and the UK have by far the largest percentage and that's just the ones we know about, nobody has any idea how many illegals are here

The idea that most have designer clothes is hilariously wrong. A single migrant was spotted - the idea that they might be fake seems to have never occurred.

Also, the idea they must be literally dying on their feet is also really silly. Clearly my point is they're highly motivated - something old people in this country are constantly complaining the youth lack.

You're also totally forgetting the idea that livable space is relevant - not square mileage. There is plenty of space for a (very low) number, as 2,000 is compared 60,000,000.

 

[AM9]

In the EU they might well be, but they are not citizens of any state that is a member of the EU. Unless of course, Eritrea, Somalia, Ethiopia and Sudan have suddenly been granted associate status of the EU and Brussels has forgotten to notify both France and Britain of the fact...:roll:

But having been given refugee status by a member state (mainly Italy) of the schengen group, they are free to roam within that area. By the way, everybody keeps forgetting that many of the current group at Calais have come from Syria, some of them via the Roumania land route. They are educated, and definitely not described as scroungers.

Why did they not head southwards to South Africa, which would have saved them the crossing of the Mediterranean Sea?

a) because SA is much further than Europe
b) they have no idea of how bad the sea journey is until they do it.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Quite right Paul. Britain is a soft touch and word has gone around that Britain is a soft touch. The 10 million arrivals since the mid-nineties have caused untold problems, much in relation to pressure on housing and public services, and still the loons want to let more in. It's one hell of a mess. I just wish we could expel half of our politicians!

You do realise an extremely large proportion of those immigrants (read way more than half) are from developed western nations, right?

Let me guess which nationalities you'd wish to deport though, because it's much easier to make out like they're all dirt poor scroungers. Do yo honestly think we're all just stupid? Or has it occurred that we might know what's actually going on?

Also, this idea that public services haven't expanded proportionally since the 90s is a joke. The number of available jobs increased with population - this is economics 101, and something that has (for obvious reasons) occurred throughout human history.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But having been given refugee status by a member state (mainly Italy) of the schengen group, they are free to roam within that area.

Whilst I accept that Italy was a signatory to the Schengen agreement, Britain was not, so how does that square that particular circle?
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a) because SA is much further than Europe
b) they have no idea of how bad the sea journey is until they do it.

Can you give the distances from Eritrea to:-
a)...South Africa
b)...Italy
c)...Britain

 

[Domh245]

Asmara (capital of eritrea) to

A) Johhanesburg: 7102km
B) Syracuse: 6462km
C) Dover: 7861km

Please note that these distances are based on driving via the quickest route. For example, to Syracuse, the route is via Tunisia and legal ferry services. The migrants obviously don't take this particular route! Similarly, the route to Dover is via Turkey and Eastern Europe

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A link that may be of interest - points out some of the fallacies that certain posters here seem to be mistakenly assuming. Huffington Post article

 

[DasLunatic]

Here's an idea no-one's came up with:

How about we swap land with France? We get the triangle of land from Wimereux to Gravelines, and in return, the French get everything west of Hayle. Since the Chunnel is now entirely on our soil, Mr. Cameron should be more than motivated to remove these migrants.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Why did they not head southwards to South Africa, which would have saved them the crossing of the Mediterranean Sea?

Presumably partly because many of these people come from the Middle East, not from Africa, partly because (for some of those people, depending what country they are from) getting to South Africa would involve crossing the Sahara (which I suspect may be even harder than crossing the Mediterranean), partly because, yes, Europe will seem like a more attractive destination than South Africa, and partly because if, like many (admittedly not all) of these people, you are fleeing a war zone, you're probably not going to be thinking rationally about all the possible options, you're more likely to just take whatever route is available to somewhere that, based on little knowledge you have, appears reachable and safe.

 

[Antman]

The idea that most have designer clothes is hilariously wrong. A single migrant was spotted - the idea that they might be fake seems to have never occurred.

Also, the idea they must be literally dying on their feet is also really silly. Clearly my point is they're highly motivated - something old people in this country are constantly complaining the youth lack.

You're also totally forgetting the idea that livable space is relevant - not square mileage. There is plenty of space for a (very low) number, as 2,000 is compared 60,000,000.

Well those who are interviewed on TV all seem well dressed.

You still haven't explained why they've crossed Italy and France to try and get to the UK.

As you well know, it wouldn't stop at 2,000

 

[meridian2]

Well those who are interviewed on TV all seem well dressed.

You still haven't explained why they've crossed Italy and France to try and get to the UK.

As you well know, it wouldn't stop at 2,000

Simple: free migration, but that doesn't explain why the UK is considered more favorable than those 2 countries.
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You do realise an extremely large proportion of those immigrants (read way more than half) are from developed western nations, right?

Let me guess which nationalities you'd wish to deport though, because it's much easier to make out like they're all dirt poor scroungers. Do yo honestly think we're all just stupid? Or has it occurred that we might know what's actually going on?

Please enlighten us as to why they're swarming round trying to get into the UK.

 

[St Rollox]

Are you serious? For starters, do you happen to know where in London the necessary amount of housing is sitting gathering dust?

Buckingham Palace could hold a couple of thousand homeless Africans.

 

[Antman]

Buckingham Palace could hold a couple of thousand homeless Africans.

It could also hold a couple of thousand homeless Brits!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Presumably partly because many of these people come from the Middle East, not from Africa, partly because (for some of those people, depending what country they are from) getting to South Africa would involve crossing the Sahara (which I suspect may be even harder than crossing the Mediterranean), partly because, yes, Europe will seem like a more attractive destination than South Africa, and partly because if, like many (admittedly not all) of these people, you are fleeing a war zone, you're probably not going to be thinking rationally about all the possible options, you're more likely to just take whatever route is available to somewhere that, based on little knowledge you have, appears reachable and safe.

There are a great number of those who come from sub-Saharan Africa to whom that particular desert lies in the opposite direction when travelling to South Africa.

There are well over 20 countries in the EU for those from Middle Eastern people to choose from, but Turkey, being a Muslim country would be best for Muslims from the Middle East to choose as they would be covered by the Muslim ethic of looking after fellow Muslims.

 

[radamfi]

European countries are facing a demographic timebomb with declining and ageing populations. So whilst politicians will talk tough on immigration to appeal to voters, in reality they want immigration to help avoid economic problems caused by low birth rates and more older people.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You do realise an extremely large proportion of those immigrants (read way more than half) are from developed western nations, right.

Which "developed" western nations do you mean. Remember that Poland warned the EU what could occur once both Romania and Bulgaria were granted EU status, as Poland had far more experience of that particular matter over a very long period of time.
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European countries are facing a demographic timebomb with declining and ageing populations. So whilst politicians will talk tough on immigration to appeal to voters, in reality they want immigration to help avoid economic problems caused by low birth rates and more older people.

Using immigration from other nations of the same ethic is no bad matter. It is when immigration from areas that espouse a totally alien lifestyle to that of the welcoming country is when problems of belief clashes occur.

I will give you an example of this. Many people from the Indian sub-continent came to Britain to work in the textile yarn and cloth industries in Lancashire which saw very large enclaves of Muslim people in the towns of East Lancashire such as Blackburn and Burnley and towns near to Manchester such as Oldham and Rochdale.
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Buckingham Palace could hold a couple of thousand homeless Africans.

Under the same logic, so could the Topkapi Pace in Turkey and the Potala Palace in Tibet, so I am not really following your logic.

Radio 4 has just reported that someone in the Labour Party with a woeful lack of both geography and political reality has suggested the British government is responsible for what happens on French soil. Using the same strange logic, that would hold France responsible for any immigrants when they arrive in Britain...:roll: