Another Awful RailAir Experience

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Apologies for the long post - a bit of a rant, but I'm also looking for some advice / clarification on a few things...

I have written multiple times on this forum about the indifference and abysmal level of service provided by the First Bus operated RailAir brand.

From cancelling the last bus from Heathrow and stranding several passengers, forcing me to pay out for a taxi, and then ignoring my requests for reimbursement for so long that I had to get bususers.org involved, to surly drivers kicking all the passengers off the bus in the cold because of doubts that one passenger didn't have a ticket.

Unfortunately, today - on Christmas Day - RailAir has struck again with an awful travelling experience:

Three of us left Guildford on the 14:25 RA2 service with the intention of travelling to Woking. The RailAir website quotes a fare of £15 for a return for three people.

Having asked for three returns, the driver charges us £15, but the tickets come printed out as "Adult Singles". We enquire and the driver assures us that those are the single fares. He isn't particularly helpful and claims can't refund us.

As an aside, but not related to the main issue here, the driver drove unprofessionally, skipping out one of the stops and a portion of the route, but also didn't wait at timing points, meaning we arrived into Woking 20 minutes early, which meant we had to hang around a very empty town centre awaiting a pub dinner reservation.

My first question is, how is it that fares booked through the website are 50% cheaper than fares bought from the driver? I'm sure, at least until very recently, that the difference was only a couple of Pounds cheaper. Has something changed?

Secondly, if that is indeed the case, then fine - but why could the driver not refund the wrongly issued tickets and resell us the correct ones? I have travelled on RailAir services in the past where the driver has overcharged and happily refunded and reissued. Again, can anybody confirm if has something changed, or was this driver just being lazy and unhelpful?

For the return journey, we attempted to board the 19:08 service from Woking. We explained to the driver our situation, and he confirmed that the online fares were indeed cheaper, and that the "onboard" fares are £5 (per person) for a single and £7.50 (per person) for a return.

Having wanted to charge us another £15 just for three singles back to Guildford, we declined and booked us a taxi instead which ended up being cheaper.

What I'm absolutely livid about is - why is it that we should be charged £7.50 extra (2 x £15, as opposed to 3 x £7.50) due to the driver's mistake in issuing the correct ticket?

It's not a matter of money - as let's face it, £7.50 is hardly much - but a matter of principle.

Would it be feasible to request a partial refund for this issue? In the end, we paid out £28.99 (£15 + £13.99 for the taxi), whereas a return, as we asked for, would've cost us £22.50, assuming the astronomical difference in prices is correct.

In hindsight, perhaps it would've been better to pay for the single on the return journey (as opposed to a taxi), to give us a leg to stand on, but as stated, it's not about the money, it's about principle.

At the end of the day, passengers shouldn't have to foot the bill for a driver's mistake.

It's a shame, as the RailAir is an incredibly handy service with excellent potential, but so poorly operated that it's a 50/50 toss-up as to whether or not they'll ruin your day.

 

[philthetube]

did you pay with cash or card, a driver using a ticketer machine cannot refund and reissue, only refund to a card and start again, charging twice before the first transaction is refunded.

this could have been part of your issue.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

did you pay with cash or card, a driver using a ticketer machine cannot refund and reissue, only refund to a card and start again, charging twice before the first transaction is refunded.

this could have been part of your issue.

I paid with a card. Please would you be able to clarify what you meant by the part highlighted in bold?

I'm sure I have travelled on RailAir services in the past where I have successfully been refunded an incorrectly issued ticket. In these cases, I touched my card on the reader for a second time and had one of the payments "reversed".

 

[greenline712]

I've also been in the same position regarding tickets issued on Ticketer with a card . . . the driver seems to be unable to refund tickets; I had to speak to the Company office to resolve the situation (not this operator).

I've looked on line, and the OP refers to three returns for £15. Actually, this seems to be £7.50 for three singles each way (£2.50 each). Still £15, but technically single fares.

It is quite possible that on-board fares are double the on-line prices . . . the differential seems high, but if that is what the operator charges, that is their decision.

As far as the "driving unprofessionally" and "omitting a stop" . . . was that the stop at The Chase? Perhaps the driver felt that today that stop would produce no passengers? Was there a road closure, which meant that the stop couldn't be served anyway?

I would contact the operator . . . complaining on this forum will only bring advice, not resolution. I suspect, though, that the OP was charged the correct (on-board) fares for the journey they took, and for the journey you intended to take.

 

[philthetube]

assuming that the fixed ticketer machines work in the same way as the hand held ones once a ticket has been issued to a credit/debit card all the operator can do is cancel the ticket (anul) and start again, the money paid will be refunded back to the card and a fresh ticket can be issued which must also be paid for, however the second ticket is likely to be charged for before the refund arrives.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

It is quite possible that on-board fares are double the on-line prices . . . the differential seems high, but if that is what the operator charges, that is their decision.

Thanks for your input. I'm unsure how the Guildford to Woking fares compare with the Guildford to Heathrow fares, but I'm certain that the latter used to (perhaps they still are) be only a few Pounds cheaper than if bought on the bus. As you rightly say, if that's what they want to charge, then so be it, but the mind boggles when I've bought Heathrow tickets on the bus which are only a couple of Pounds more expensive.

As far as the "driving unprofessionally" and "omitting a stop" . . . was that the stop at The Chase? Perhaps the driver felt that today that stop would produce no passengers? Was there a road closure, which meant that the stop couldn't be served anyway?

It was indeed The stop at The Chase which was omitted. You can view the tracking maps here. As far as I'm aware, there were no road closures, as the previous and subsequent services managed to serve that section of route. And whilst I agree the stop is relatively lightly used, skipping that section of route is unprofessional regardless. I've been at the receiving end of buses deviating from their booked route for no reason and having to figure out a "plan B" many times, and it's incredibly frustrating.

I would contact the operator . . . complaining on this forum will only bring advice, not resolution. I suspect, though, that the OP was charged the correct (on-board) fares for the journey they took, and for the journey you intended to take.

Thank you. I certainly will be contacting First Bus, and the issue isn't so much the disparity between the "online" and "onboard" fares, but rather how I was expected to pay more than I should have due to a driver error.

---

assuming that the fixed ticketer machines work in the same way as the hand held ones once a ticket has been issued to a credit/debit card all the operator can do is cancel the ticket (anul) and start again, the money paid will be refunded back to the card and a fresh ticket can be issued which must also be paid for, however the second ticket is likely to be charged for before the refund arrives.

Thank you for clarifying. That sounds like my previous experiences having had tickets "refunded" - so it's clear that they are able to do this. So I don't understand why the driver claimed he couldn't do anything. A change in company policy perhaps, or just following the general trend of indifference and unwillingness to help which I have experienced on a near constant basis from this operator?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

...can anybody confirm if has something changed, or was this driver just being lazy and unhelpful?

Driver was probably irritated on having to work Christmas day and thought "well if I can't have a decent Christmas then no one can", which I find rather infantile.

 

[Surreyman]

My 10 pennyworth, I have noticed that the RA2 has been skipping The Chase stop recently - until a few days ago there were roadworks near the Cathedral roundabout that caused long delays, they had gone by at least yesterday (I drove through).

Driver was probably irritated on having to work Christmas day and thought "well if I can't have a decent Christmas then no one can", which I find rather infantile.

I know a lot of the drivers on the RA 2 are south asian and presumably don't celebrate Xmas? Roads are also generally very quiet

 

[GusB]

Driver was probably irritated on having to work Christmas day and thought "well if I can't have a decent Christmas then no one can", which I find rather infantile.

That's a massive assumption to be making. You've no idea what the driver was thinking, so please stop the silly speculation. As and when you are in possession of the facts regarding this case, you'll be welcome to come back and air your views.

 

[richw]

Regarding the refund, there is a button on the ticketer machine titled Anul. It cancels and refunds the tickets selected for annulment. The driver only has a 2 minute time window to do so after the initial issue. Once 2 minutes has passed the driver can no longer refund.
Any refunds issued, the driver has to fill out paper work at the end of the shift, that takes maybe 30 seconds maximum, and then needs to staple the cancelled ticket along with the annulment slip that will print out to the paper work.
Maybe poor training and the driver doesn’t know how to do an annulment.

 

[embers25]

The op mentioned arriving in Woking 20 mins early which would mean a 12 min journey time from Guildford which is impossible. Also a taxi from Woking to Guildford on Christmas day is not less than £15 quid so I'm not sure what to make of the whole post...

 

[Leedsbusman]

The op mentioned arriving in Woking 20 mins early which would mean a 12 min journey time from Guildford which is impossible. Also a taxi from Woking to Guildford on Christmas day is not less than £15 quid so I'm not sure what to make of the whole post...

Well tracking shows it arriving at 1437 and leaving at 1454 (due time 1457). What do you make of that?

Vehicles – RA2 - Guildford Rail Station - Heathrow Airport Terminal 3 – bustimes.org

 

[cactustwirly]

Apologies for the long post - a bit of a rant, but I'm also looking for some advice / clarification on a few things...

I have written multiple times on this forum about the indifference and abysmal level of service provided by the First Bus operated RailAir brand.

From cancelling the last bus from Heathrow and stranding several passengers, forcing me to pay out for a taxi, and then ignoring my requests for reimbursement for so long that I had to get bususers.org involved, to surly drivers kicking all the passengers off the bus in the cold because of doubts that one passenger didn't have a ticket.

Unfortunately, today - on Christmas Day - RailAir has struck again with an awful travelling experience:

Three of us left Guildford on the 14:25 RA2 service with the intention of travelling to Woking. The RailAir website quotes a fare of £15 for a return for three people.

Having asked for three returns, the driver charges us £15, but the tickets come printed out as "Adult Singles". We enquire and the driver assures us that those are the single fares. He isn't particularly helpful and claims can't refund us.

As an aside, but not related to the main issue here, the driver drove unprofessionally, skipping out one of the stops and a portion of the route, but also didn't wait at timing points, meaning we arrived into Woking 20 minutes early, which meant we had to hang around a very empty town centre awaiting a pub dinner reservation.

My first question is, how is it that fares booked through the website are 50% cheaper than fares bought from the driver? I'm sure, at least until very recently, that the difference was only a couple of Pounds cheaper. Has something changed?

Secondly, if that is indeed the case, then fine - but why could the driver not refund the wrongly issued tickets and resell us the correct ones? I have travelled on RailAir services in the past where the driver has overcharged and happily refunded and reissued. Again, can anybody confirm if has something changed, or was this driver just being lazy and unhelpful?

For the return journey, we attempted to board the 19:08 service from Woking. We explained to the driver our situation, and he confirmed that the online fares were indeed cheaper, and that the "onboard" fares are £5 (per person) for a single and £7.50 (per person) for a return.

Having wanted to charge us another £15 just for three singles back to Guildford, we declined and booked us a taxi instead which ended up being cheaper.

What I'm absolutely livid about is - why is it that we should be charged £7.50 extra (2 x £15, as opposed to 3 x £7.50) due to the driver's mistake in issuing the correct ticket?

It's not a matter of money - as let's face it, £7.50 is hardly much - but a matter of principle.

Would it be feasible to request a partial refund for this issue? In the end, we paid out £28.99 (£15 + £13.99 for the taxi), whereas a return, as we asked for, would've cost us £22.50, assuming the astronomical difference in prices is correct.

In hindsight, perhaps it would've been better to pay for the single on the return journey (as opposed to a taxi), to give us a leg to stand on, but as stated, it's not about the money, it's about principle.

At the end of the day, passengers shouldn't have to foot the bill for a driver's mistake.

It's a shame, as the RailAir is an incredibly handy service with excellent potential, but so poorly operated that it's a 50/50 toss-up as to whether or not they'll ruin your day.

I've used RailAir lots of times before and never had any issues. It is a very useful service and seems to well run.

It is well known that tickets bought online are cheaper than buying it on the day. All bus operators do this to an extent with some tickets only available from the app.

 

[embers25]

Well tracking shows it arriving at 1437 and leaving at 1454 (due time 1457). What do you make of that?

Vehicles – RA2 - Guildford Rail Station - Heathrow Airport Terminal 3 – bustimes.org

It doesn't show the arrival time at 1437 although I agree it did run early. However, find me a taxi for 12.99...uber I'd guess possibly but not a taxi as they are 20 quid at least, plus Xmas day surcharge. Also, if they prebooked a taxi they could just as easily have prebooked the railair as you can buy online for 2.50 pretty much up to departure time. Not sure why they didn't prebook online anyway given the op knew about prebooked fares being cheaper (they state that) and they had a fixed arrival trip. Could and should railair have done better...yes, but that's it. Be grateful it was running given everyone else pretty much gives up on Xmas day and, whilst it can be used for local journeys, Heathrow don't subsidise it to run on Xmas day for that. If you really got a taxi for 13.99, why wouldn't you just get that both ways and save any walking and waiting, given the Xmas meal would've been massively overpriced and the op happily paid that.

The op states they have many previous issues so why keep using it given a taxi was approx 4 quid extra each allegedly return. They wouldn't go back to the pub if the food was crap. Sigh.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

The op mentioned arriving in Woking 20 mins early which would mean a 12 min journey time from Guildford which is impossible. Also a taxi from Woking to Guildford on Christmas day is not less than £15 quid so I'm not sure what to make of the whole post...

I'm sorry but I can assure you that the bus arrived into Woking 20 minutes early, and therefore the journey did only take approximately 12 minutes.

As @Leedsbusman has stated, the tracking maps clearly show this. The roads were empty and as stated in my opening post, the driver skipped out a section of route and (I felt) drove unprofessionally fast at points. There is absolutely no reason for me to lie about the journey time (which isn't even the main issue here), so I don't know from where you draw the absurd assumption that the journey time was "impossible".

And as for your second wild assumption that a taxi couldn't be any less than £15, I'm more than happy to show you my bank statement to refute your seeming attempt to prove that I'm making this entire story up.

Did you want a photo of my RailAir ticket too?

---

If you really got a taxi for 13.99, why wouldn't you just get that both ways and save any walking and waiting, given the Xmas meal would've been massively overpriced and the op happily paid that.

The op states they have many previous issues so why keep using it given a taxi was approx 4 quid extra each allegedly return. They wouldn't go back to the pub if the food was crap. Sigh.

Yes, I did really manage to get a taxi for £13.99, as shocking as it may seem. Why didn't I use the taxi both ways? Because, as I stated in my opening post, I was led to believe that a return fare for three people was £15 - possibly a few Pounds more if buying from the driver, but not practically double that.

A taxi both ways would've been £28. Yes, I'd have been willing to pay for a taxi both ways, but what's the harm in saving a few Pounds if you have the option? I used to commute on the RailAir service, and when it runs well, it's fantastic, but unfortunately in my experience it's incredibly hit-and-miss, and when it's "miss", it's utterly atrocious.

As for the Christmas meal - which was pre-booked a month in advance - we'd all agreed on a nice meal out (so don't come back with "you could've cooked it yourself") and there simply wasn't a cheaper option for a meal out on Christmas Day.

But at the end of the day - I will say it again - it's not about the money, it's about the principle of having to pay out for a driver's mistake. I was willing to pay £300+ for the Christmas dinner. The RailAir fare could've been £50 per person for all I care, and if I were willing to pay that, then so be it. What I'm not willing to do is pay more than what I should've because a driver didn't listen to the ticket we wanted, and the staff are so disinterested and unwilling to help.

Yes, mistakes happen, but could the driver have given us a customer service number to claim back the difference of two singles from? He wasn't helpful, and practically absolved responsibility for his mistake. That's what I'm unhappy about - not about the "massively overpriced" Christmas Dinner, nor about the taxi I used for a sum you don't believe was possible.

 

[Olympian]

assuming that the fixed ticketer machines work in the same way as the hand held ones once a ticket has been issued to a credit/debit card all the operator can do is cancel the ticket (anul) and start again, the money paid will be refunded back to the card and a fresh ticket can be issued which must also be paid for, however the second ticket is likely to be charged for before the refund arrives

Yes they do, effectively same UI and functionality for both types.

Regarding the refund, there is a button on the ticketer machine titled Anul. It cancels and refunds the tickets selected for annulment. The driver only has a 2 minute time window to do so after the initial issue. Once 2 minutes has passed the driver can no longer refund.
Any refunds issued, the driver has to fill out paper work at the end of the shift, that takes maybe 30 seconds maximum, and then needs to staple the cancelled ticket along with the annulment slip that will print out to the paper work.
Maybe poor training and the driver doesn’t know how to do an annulment.

Annulment time period is configurable for each Ticketer operator and many have it set to longer than 2 minutes (eg 5). But the principle is as you describe.

 

[richw]

Annulment time period is configurable for each Ticketer operator and many have it set to longer than 2 minutes (eg 5). But the principle is as you describe.

I previously worked for the First opco in question and it was 2 minutes for the entire time I worked there (2018-2023)

 

[Olympian]

I previously worked for the First opco in question and it was 2 minutes for the entire time I worked there (2018-2023)

Thanks for clarifying that you were talking about that specific operator’s configuration and not just generally about Ticketer devices as I’d read it.

 

[richw]

Thanks for clarifying that you were talking about that specific operator’s configuration and not just generally about Ticketer devices as I’d read it.

I’d wrongly assumed that it was the same across the board. New employer used a completely different type of machine and they also give 2 minutes.

 

[Leedsbusman]

It doesn't show the arrival time at 1437 although I agree it did run early. .

pretty clear to me. (Shows bus has tracked at 1438 near the time point)

 

[embers25]

So it left 82 seconds early and arrived 14 mins early at 1439 (1457 is the departure not arrival time at Woking) which is not ideal but not the end of the world...so hardly worth the complaint given the early arrival is largely down to avoiding perceived roadworks as all buses seemed to do that day.

Should it wait for time? Yes, but I get why it didn't as waiting at Mayford for 13 mins is not ideal. Also, it left Mayford 13 mins early and then had no traffic so obviously arrived early in Woking, but the most it was wrongly early was 13 mins not 20 mins due to the diversion and Xmas day.

This is a total non story - just complaining for no reason.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

So it left 82 seconds early and arrived 14 mins early at 1439 (1457 is the departure not arrival time at Woking) which is not ideal but not the end of the world...so hardly worth the complaint given the early arrival is largely down to avoiding perceived roadworks as all buses seemed to do that day.

Should it wait for time? Yes, but I get why it didn't as waiting at Mayford for 13 mins is not ideal. Also, it left Mayford 13 mins early and then had no traffic so obviously arrived early in Woking, but the most it was wrongly early was 13 mins not 20 mins due to the diversion and Xmas day.

This is a total non story - just complaining for no reason.

Well, I'm glad you think I have nothing better to do than "complain for no reason". Incidentally, you seem to be missing the main point here, which isn't the early arrival. I clearly stated in my opening post that this was a side comment, which albeit compounded my experience.

The main issue here is the ticketing issue, which I note you haven't bothered to comment any further on. Have you nothing of value to add perhaps, or are you just cherry-picking parts of my - as you claim - "non-story" in an attempt to have a dig at me for highlighting the poor and unhelpful service I have experienced?

 

[embers25]

Doesn't appear you were overcharged and you admit you knew online fares were always cheaper so no need to address that more than I already did if you'd bothered to read my earlier posts and the other replies. If that was your main concern why post everything else basically slagging off the service with no facts to back up your complaints.

Railair is far from great and neither are First Berks but all your posts do not read like a fare complaint but a railair complaint and the bottom line is that, in your eyes, you think they are awful but you still chose to use them so what wrre you expecting. Your coach didn't arrive 20 mins early,there is no evidence to support dangerous driving and it appears you were charged the correct on bus fare despite being able to book online and knowing it was cheaper. The early running made you wait in the cold for a max of 13 extra minutes...but early running is to be expected on xmas day due to no traffic, hardly an 'awful travelling experience' to arrive a few mins early...if you were on SWR and they were actually running on Xmas day you'd be grateful if you even got to Woking to same day quite often. Incidentally, £2.50 online Guildford to Woking is an absolute bargain.

 

[greenline712]

I'm sorry, but I'm still really struggling to understand the rationale behind your complaint, in particular the "poor service" you received from the outward driver.
We've already established that "on-board" fares seem to be double the "on-line" fare .... which the outward driver charged, and the return driver attempted to charge.

Why should the outward driver need to refund you? He charged the correct fare.
I get your desire to use on the day fares, although, given your lunch reservation, you 'could' have pre-booked your outward journey.
The driver seems to have had a justification to avoid the stop at The Chase, if roadworks had been delaying journeys on previous days, although you should maybe contact the operator about that anyway.

I have to say that, if I were to receive your demand for a refund, based on everything we've discussed, I would be inclined to refuse.
It's no different to having advance and on the day fares on a train .... you wouldn't pay on the day and try to claim a refund on the difference between the fares??

 

[GusB]

The best course of action is for @lxfe_mxtterz to raise a complaint with the operating company, as it's not something that any of us here can deal with.

We'll lock the thread for now, but if the OP receives a response and wishes to report back, please use the report function on this post and we can re-open the thread to facilitate this.