Another idea for Bradford!

[Halifaxlad]

Thinking more about this new proposed station for Bradford upon the St James Market site makes me think more about reinstating the avoiding line since it would do pretty much the same thing although require the closure of the interchange as the track would curve round and rip up its throat. I have a similar idea to the avoiding line which is closer to the proposed station site, which is an 830m chord.



If we were to build a new station I would reconfigure the road layout and remove the roundabout and build it just South of there. Im not sure if I would keep what would then be a chord in to the interchange or not.

The main benefit I see would be not having to close the existing Interchange station which I would use for these new Manchester services otherwise they will probably just end up starting from Leeds. Also GC I would keep at the interchange as it would be silly to have them terminate at a through station.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I am honestly struggling to see any plus points from this.

All it appears to be is demolishing quite a lot of Bradford to add a third station.
Unnecessary duplication of stations.
Complicating services
Reducing services to the centre of Bradford
Removing services from the centre of Leeds to the centre of Bradford
Building a station on a steep gradient in a narrow cutting

 

[Halifaxlad]

I am honestly struggling to see any plus points from this.

All it appears to be is demolishing quite a lot of Bradford to add a third station.
Unnecessary duplication of stations.
Complicating services
Reducing services to the centre of Bradford
Removing services from the centre of Leeds to the centre of Bradford
Building a station on a steep gradient in a narrow cutting

Are you not aware if the St James proposal ?

 

[yoyothehobo]

Are you not aware if the St James proposal ?

I am, that is also a terrible idea

 

[Neptune]

It seems that all the ‘good’ ideas for railways in Bradford involve diverting the railway away from Bradford. Even the inept council are pushing for this.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The St James/Bradford Gateway proposal is less of a "magic bullet" solution than even the oft-suggested Bradford Crossrail idea.
As much as I'm skeptical of the advantages of merging the two stations, if a lot of money is to be spent on improving rail connections in Bradford, doing Crossrail would achieve more than the "Gateway" station would, with the obvious caveat that it would cost significantly more to achieve.
Rather than spending a load of money to cure a few people's reversal anxiety, that money would be better spent on a significant refurbishment and improvement of both Interchange and Forster Square stations (and, of course, a replacement for the Interchange bus station- see the thread in the Buses section for that situation).

 

[Arkeeos]

As much as I'm skeptical of the advantages of merging the two stations, if a lot of money is to be spent on improving rail connections in Bradford, doing Crossrail would achieve more than the "Gateway" station would, with the obvious caveat that it would cost significantly more to achieve.

Isnt there 2bil!? set aside for a "new bradford station" (with everything in as many quotation marks as possible). I think you could tunnel less than a mile under Bradford for less than 2bil. And at least with that proposal you would be able to run some new services.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I am, that is also a terrible idea

I agree.

My suggestion is supposed to be a less terrible idea!


Just to clarify for everyone I dont believe in closing the interchange. Terminus platforms which are very useful, switching them on through lines is just pointless!

A through station or bypassing the main interchange for some services does make sense. Not everybody wants to go to Bradford!

A lot of seating capacity on long distance Blackpool North services used to be taken up by those travelling the 9 mile journey to Bradford.

I also remeber how some commuters (pre pandemic) used to be left standing on the platform at Halifax due to over crowding, yet after the train left Bradford there was plenty of seating/standing capacity.

At the end of the day Bradford Council want a new station somewhere near St James's, the DFT have gone with it purely I believe for political reasons.

Personally Im begininh to think they should just build another additional terminus on the St James site and reroute LNER services to that instead of Forster Square!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Isnt there 2bil!? set aside for a "new bradford station" (with everything in as many quotation marks as possible). I think you could tunnel less than a mile under Bradford for less than 2bil. And at least with that proposal you would be able to run some new services.

The issue with going underground is that it adds to the gradient for the lines out of the present-day Interchange. If you were going to do it, you'd ideally want it at or above ground level- though Broadway is now in the way.

I've said before that Crossrail would aid people travelling through Bradford more than it would aid Bradford itself, and the same applies to the gateway proposal. The current reversal at Interchange only adds a few minutes to schedules, and if Bradford is your origin or destination that makes no difference to your journey time. Having to board or alight at a station up the hill from the city centre would, unless you happen to live in the vicinity of Gateway itself.

 

[fishwomp]

Isnt there 2bil!? set aside for a "new bradford station" (with everything in as many quotation marks as possible). I think you could tunnel less than a mile under Bradford for less than 2bil. And at least with that proposal you would be able to run some new services.

It'd be easier to tunnel overground though, given the elevation of interchange. Much cheaper that way too.

Anyhow. Bradford Crossrail is as regular as the Woodhead reopening on this forum - the only reason to make it happen is so that we can find something else to talk about.

One way of thinking of the St James idea could be that instead of thinking of Bradford as a destination for work, it needs to be thought of as a place of commuters to Leeds. Then you start to plot density of surrounding housing, and other potential road/transport links rather than distance from Bradford centre. I don't know how that line of thinking pans out in this case though.

 

[Halifaxlad]

2 billion is for ...

400k (ish) new Bradford station

1.6 billion new line between Bradford & Huddersfield that presumably will also be electrified!

 

[zwk500]

400k (ish) new Bradford station

That is, perhaps rather conveniently, about the money it will take to get the SOBC and OBC written, and maybe make a start on the FBC.

A through station or bypassing the main interchange for some services does make sense. Not everybody wants to go to Bradford!

It's easy enough to do this with existing routes though. The only town that can't easily avoid Bradford to get to Leeds is Halifax, and the extra time to reverse via Bradford Interchange really isn't that big a problem to justify a new line.

A lot of seating capacity on long distance Blackpool North services used to be taken up by those travelling the 9 mile journey to Bradford.

Presumably only for a brief period?

I also remeber how some commuters (pre pandemic) used to be left standing on the platform at Halifax due to over crowding, yet after the train left Bradford there was plenty of seating/standing capacity.

Would lengthening trains not be a better solution than building an extra line, especially if this is only a problem during peak commuting periods?

At the end of the day Bradford Council want a new station somewhere near St James's, the DFT have gone with it purely I believe for political reasons.

*agreed to look at it, I think. Very different to actually agreeing to build it.

Any new station on an avoiding chord would surely be on the Dual Carriageway for maximum connectivity, and thus the existing corridor seems to make much more sense than a new alignment requiring quite significant economic disruption to multiple businesses, which is something Bradford really doesn't need*. Also the new alignment appears to be c.800m long, and therefore will have potentially some awkward signalling arrangements to avoid overlaps fouling the junctions at either end while still providing service braking distances. Whereas the old alignment looks to be about 2 times as long and therefore would have far less problems to solve.

* - I do note that the southern end of the old alignment has been built on and the station site whichever way you do it will require some demolition.

 

[bluenoxid]

There’s lots of questions for railways in Bradford that need to be considered

What new railways are going to be built?

What is the plan for Leeds-Pudsey-Bradford Interchange? Is it a fast connection, the service we have now or an intense rapid transit railway.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The only town that can't easily avoid Bradford to get to Leeds is Halifax, and the extra time to reverse via Bradford Interchange really isn't that big a problem to justify a new line.

Why cant anybody on this forum suggest anything about Bradford without someone infering that the suggestion is about 'reversal anxiety' which by the way I personally don't suffer from!

Lets be clear Bradford Council have looked at three options for a new station, each is a through station. The third is a station on a reopened avoiding line which has been discounted due to its location and not being upon the South side of this area the Council wants to redevelop, which will itself entail a lot of destruction.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/43118/html/

This thread is supposed to be about an option which hasnt been considerd! Which is similar to the avoiding line option but is much shorter and closer to the prefered station.

Even if a station isn't build a chord in conjuction with the reopening of the Wortley curve could be quite useful especially when between Bradley Jct and Ravensthorpe is ripped up as part of TRU.

Added:

Now if I was going to include a station I would do it like this..



A junction around Hammerton St splitting into four tracks running parallel to and through a new station, one pair then curving round to the existing Interchange whilst the other would rejoin the existing line via the new chord. Im not sure if I would have platforms on all four lines or not.

Added 05-02-24

What I really like to do is this....



Keep GC and stopping services at the Interchange

Keep LNER services at Forster Square

Build a new station for use by Bradford - Huddersfield - Manchester services.

Connect this new station on a viaduct across the top of Broadway and through Forster Square retail park to the Aire Valley line to allow these services to begin from Skipton/Ikley. They don't need to begin from Leeds as Leeds will already have direct fast Manchester services!

Put a chord in to enable services such as Carlisle, Morcambe and eventually Glasgow (hopefully) to serve Bradford om route!

A new East to North West chord would also allow existing services that terminste at Forster Square to be extended to Leeds via New Pudsey which would better connect New Pudsey and Bramley to the Aire Valley! This would particularly be useful on Sundays when they are less services!

Do I dare say this would also create a diversionary route ? As Im sure someone is just waiting to claim 'this is a lot of work just for a diversionary route'

As for the buses I would build a new interchange between the Interchange (rail) station and this new station. The bit colored in Green on the map!

Now who said I suffer from reversal anxiety ?