Antisocial behaviour on trains

[londonbridge]

I’ve just been on the bus on the way home from work, girl on the back seat with her feet on the seats facing her, she gave me a dirty look when I said “Can I sit down please”, but did take her feet down.

 

[Kite159]

I’ve just been on the bus on the way home from work, girl on the back seat with her feet on the seats facing her, she gave me a dirty look when I said “Can I sit down please”, but did take her feet down.

Don't you know the floor of the bus is made of lava and is she sat properly it would have burnt her feet

 

[Bletchleyite]

The question is how do you do that? If even the train manager (i.e. an authority) is reluctant to approach people about ASB for fear of a potentially dangerous response, who will? An ordinary member of the public has no power over anyone else and cannot force compliance. It has been going on for long enough that the perpetrators of ASB who have gotten away with it now see it as an entitlement, and once entitlement sets in it is near impossible to change (you see similar with the motoring lobby in the UK).

Merseyrail did it by bringing in the "rentathug" Byelaw enforcement squads, presumably part-funded by the settlements received to avoid prosecution.

 

[trainophile]

I haven't seen a Merseyrail guard on a train for ages. See them on the platform ding dinging to tell the driver it's safe to go, but not in the saloon cars. The occasional RPIs but even that's a rarity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I haven't seen a Merseyrail guard on a train for ages. See them on the platform ding dinging to tell the driver it's safe to go, but not in the saloon cars. The occasional RPIs but even that's a rarity.

On the 777s their role requires them to be in the passenger compartment, so that's changing.

 

[greyman42]

I caught Covid on a very crowded, filthy CrossCountry train. I definitely didn’t want that!
(I suspect I wasn’t the only one as the train was so crowded no-one could move, and there was someone continually coughing and spluttering standing nearby)

I fail to see how you could possibly know where you caught covid.

 

[Mark J]

I’ve been down in Birmingham for the weekend, and I’ve been shocked at the standard of behaviour I’ve seen on some trains.

Over the past 24 hours, I have seen:

• Shouting across a carriage
• No fewer than 9 separate instances of people playing audio out loud from a device.
• Swearing
• Cycling along platforms
• Plenty of feet on seats
• Someone being told to “shut your ******* baby up or I’ll do it for you” when a baby was crying.
• Shoving
• People barging onto trains before everyone has alighted.
• Someone telling a guard to “**** off” when asked to produce a ticket.
• An extensive amount of litter left on many trains
• People spreading their luggage and belongings across a bay of 4 on a busy train
• Plenty of drunk football fans singing loudly
• People blocking the door on a busy train and refusing to move to allow people on or off.

The standard of behaviour on the railway is shocking at the moment. I’m generally against the Merseyrail approach of Penalty Fares or prosecutions for misconduct. That said, having seen the behaviour I’ve seen this weekend, I’m inclined to think there may be some merit to being much stricter and issuing penalty fares for some of the above.

Not long ago I witnessed an idiot becoming rude and aggressive to a Train Manager on a XC service.

All because the Train Manager asked this idiot and his partner sitting opposite to take their bags off the seats and put them in the overhead rack (freeing up two seats), so that passengers who were standing in the carriage could have a seat.

Some people really have zero common sense, or decency towards others.

Bravo to those on here that have told 'idiots' how it is and where to go. If the 'idiots' don't like it, then tough.

During the conversation I had with the man, a young woman to our right had earbuds in, presumably listening to her phone, and glanced over at the raised voices. But she was showing consideration for others by not inflicting whatever she was listening to on everyone.
I recall a young woman in the declassified First Class section at the back of a Thameslink service one time playing an episode of Big Bang Theory out loud. Despite several people asking her to stop, she was quite rude and insisted on her ‘right’ to do it as ‘I’ve paid for my ticket, the same as you’
She stopped eventually, then phoned a friend on FaceTime (with speaker on full volume of course) and proceeded to loudly moan about ‘all these old fat people having a go at me’

I would have been tempted to say something unrepeatable on this forum to the girl, had I of heard her refer to me as 'fat and old' for agreeing with others to keep her noise down.

 

[Krokodil]

I haven't seen a Merseyrail guard on a train for ages. See them on the platform ding dinging to tell the driver it's safe to go, but not in the saloon cars. The occasional RPIs but even that's a rarity.

I see them go through frequently on the Wirral Line, though it's the roving gangs that do the actual enforcement.

Not long ago I witnessed an idiot becoming rude and aggressive to a Train Manager on a XC service.

All because the Train Manager asked this idiot and his partner sitting opposite to take their bags off the seats and put them in the overhead rack (freeing up two seats), so that passengers who were standing in the carriage could have a seat.

No one has yet kicked off at me, the mere threat of "bags on seats will be charged for a ticket" over the PA works in most cases.

 

[Steve4031]

In the United States Amtrak addresses this behavior through frequent announcements and people have been put off the train for ASB and not following directions of the crew. It might help that on the overnight routes there is often a 24 wait for the next day's train if one is put off. Drunk passengers have been dealt with by being put off the train and handed over to the police at the nearest grade crossing. The train occurs a 20 to 30-minute delay which usually grows as the trip progresses.

I know that cameras are used more aggressively to address speeding on roadways in the UK and perhaps other criminal activity. Perhaps if cameras were installed in each railroad car, and monitored, it could be possible to have police meet the train a station and quickly remove the offenders from the train.

 

[bramling]

In the United States Amtrak addresses this behavior through frequent announcements and people have been put off the train for ASB and not following directions of the crew. It might help that on the overnight routes there is often a 24 wait for the next day's train if one is put off. Drunk passengers have been dealt with by being put off the train and handed over to the police at the nearest grade crossing. The train occurs a 20 to 30-minute delay which usually grows as the trip progresses.

I know that cameras are used more aggressively to address speeding on roadways in the UK and perhaps other criminal activity. Perhaps if cameras were installed in each railroad car, and monitored, it could be possible to have police meet the train a station and quickly remove the offenders from the train.

The problem with the latter, unfortunately, is what police? As you say, there’s a fairly comprehensive network of speed cameras ready to catch motorists, but most of the time in this country people will find that police response to crime can best be described as minimal. As an example, shoplifting has been in the news a lot recently as something the police essentially do nothing about. Household burglary is another notorious one.

 

[Steve4031]

The problem with the latter, unfortunately, is what police? As you say, there’s a fairly comprehensive network of speed cameras ready to catch motorists, but most of the time in this country people will find that police response to crime can best be described as minimal. As an example, shoplifting has been in the news a lot recently as something the police essentially do nothing about. Household burglary is another notorious one.

That is a similar problem here in the United States. It would be interesting if it was possible to publicly post videos of people misbehaving on trains.

 

[zwk500]

I know that cameras are used more aggressively to address speeding on roadways in the UK and perhaps other criminal activity. Perhaps if cameras were installed in each railroad car, and monitored, it could be possible to have police meet the train a station and quickly remove the offenders from the train.

There is already CCTV in nearly every carriage, but I think you are somewhat underestimating the number of carriages in service at any one time if you are proposing they be continuously monitored, even if you could address the data streaming issues and used a rotational approach.
CCTV is stored locally onboard and can be downloaded for use as evidence if required.

 

[gazzaa2]

There is a valid case to use the speaker, though, i.e. in non-public places. That's thus about as workable as "phones should turn off when in a moving vehicle" as people suggest all the time, entirely forgetting that vehicles don't only contain the driver a lot of the time.

We just need to follow Merseyrail and stop pussy-footing around enforcement of the Byelaws/house rules. If people are behaving antisocially, even in a minor way, they need to not get away with it, as minor ASB leads to major ASB.

The railway should at least make an effort. Constant announcements over the PA can be as irritating as some of this stuff, yet you rarely hear behavioural announcements. "Could all passengers please not play music, or other noise, on their mobile devices, out loud for the sake of other passengers? Please use earphones as it should be for personal use". If you had a variation of that announced alongside see it/say it/sorted etc on every train journey it would surely make a difference. Some people just don't know any better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The railway should at least make an effort. Constant announcements over the PA can be as irritating as some of this stuff, yet you rarely hear behavioural announcements. "Could all passengers please not play music, or other noise, on their mobile devices, out loud for the sake of other passengers? Please use earphones as it should be for personal use". If you had a variation of that announced alongside see it/say it/sorted etc on every train journey it would surely make a difference. Some people just don't know any better.

At a minimum a visible sign to tap to confirm it's not allowed helps, as per No Smoking signs of the past, or Quiet Coach signs.

 

[Steve4031]

There is already CCTV in nearly every carriage, but I think you are somewhat underestimating the number of carriages in service at any one time if you are proposing they be continuously monitored, even if you could address the data streaming issues and used a rotational approach.
CCTV is stored locally onboard and can be downloaded for use as evidence if required.

I agree that I underestimated the number of carriages involved. In some ways the train system in the UK operates on the scale of a subway system and the large scale of operations makes it difficult pay for the staff to ensure safety and meet other needs of passengers.

 

[N0G83]

I would like them to intervene in every case - it is a Byelaw breach. If only they were as zealous at pursuing Court cases for people doing this as for evaded fares - the only TOC doing this is Merseyrail, and perhaps the others need to follow.

The guard can advise the customer about speaker phone etiquette but that’s about it, nothing else. You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink!

 

[Steve4031]

In the United States, I was riding the Acela in the quiet car. We stopped in Baltimore and a lady got on and continued a phone conversation that had started while she was on the platform. The conductor came through and scolded her and told her to go stand in the area between cars to finish the call. I suspect she never understood she was in the quiet car until she got blasted.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

She shouldn’t, in my opinion, only show consideration for others when in the quiet car.
It’s not a good thing to do in ANY coach

 

[Peter0124]

She shouldn’t, in my opinion, only show consideration for others when in the quiet car.
It’s not a good thing to do in ANY coach

I don't see whats wrong with phoning family to say when youll be home, in a non-quiet coach.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I don't see whats wrong with phoning family to say when youll be home, in a non-quiet coach.

That's what SMS is for, surely?
anyway, when you travel by train, calling someone from the platform to say 'I'll be home at xx:xx' is just tempting fate to delay you somewhere along the way!

 

[gazzaa2]

Vestibules should really be used for making phone calls, or the front/back part of the train depending on the stock.

That used to happen more, but it's just more etiquette that's gone out the window. I can never go even a 5-10 minute journey (particularly if departing from a main terminus) without having to put up with someone's phone call nearby and it's usually nothing that couldn't be done via SMS. Fair enough if someone gets an unexpected call and answers it.

 

[Peter0124]

That's what SMS is for, surely?
anyway, when you travel by train, calling someone from the platform to say 'I'll be home at xx:xx' is just tempting fate to delay you somewhere along the way!

SMS might not be read. Ive had times were my family didn't even know I came back home because I texted them rather than phoned and thus the dinner wasn't on.

Since being phoned will ringtone whereas a SMS is just a ping, which can be mistaken for random Instagram or Tiktok notifications and thus more likely to be ignored.

 

[Bletchleyite]

SMS is a bit passe. Whatsapp, Messenger, Telegram etc show if someone has read or not.

 

[bleeder4]

SMS is a bit passe. Whatsapp, Messenger, Telegram etc show if someone has read or not.

To be pedantic, they show that the message has been displayed on the screen of the recipient's phone. Whether the person was looking at the phone at the time is a different matter entirely..

 

[al78]

I see them go through frequently on the Wirral Line, though it's the roving gangs that do the actual enforcement.


No one has yet kicked off at me, the mere threat of "bags on seats will be charged for a ticket" over the PA works in most cases.

What would you do if someone calls your bluff and points out that tickets don't apply to luggage and have any relevance to seats unless reserved?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

To be pedantic, they show that the message has been displayed on the screen of the recipient's phone. Whether the person was looking at the phone at the time is a different matter entirely..

The ticks on WhatsApp change from grey to blue when the message has been read.

It's one grey tick for sent, two grey ticks for delivered, two blue ticks for read. Testing with my own, it does seem they only turn blue when the actual message thread has been opened.

No idea if the others mentioned do the same as I don't use them.

 

[zwk500]

The ticks on WhatsApp change from grey to blue when the message has been read.

It's one grey tick for sent, two grey ticks for delivered, two blue ticks for read. Testing with my own, it does seem they only turn blue when the actual message thread has been opened.

No idea if the others mentioned do the same as I don't use them.

The 'read' function means the message has been opened and displayed for a certain amount of time (not sure how it does it with voice notes). There is no way of ensuring it's actually been read if say somebody next to the recipient asks them a question at the wrong moment.

 

[Krokodil]

What would you do if someone calls your bluff and points out that tickets don't apply to luggage and have any relevance to seats unless reserved?

Pick it up and remove it from the seat myself.

 

[kristiang85]

Re unexpected calls; I'm not sure what's so difficult about declining a call and texting "sorry, on the train, I'll call you back when off. But let me know if it's urgent". That's what I do anyway. And any call I do need to make I go to the vestibule.

But I generally find if frustrating to do calls on a train as the signal tends to cut out just at the most important point.

 

[james_the_xv]

Pick it up and remove it from the seat myself.

Fantastic way to inflame a situation...