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Any chance of new platforms at King's Cross with the new franchise?

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STEVIEBOY1

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As the new franchise holder is planning a number of new routes from Kings Cross, is there now any chance of more new platforms at K.X. I would have thought when the recent refurb was done there would have been an opportunity to do this, there is/was quite a bit of space betwenn KX & STP stations to all at least a couple of platforms.
 
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ainsworth74

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They added platform 0 to add extra capacity during the refurbishment work when platforms were closed so now that this is complete there is already some extra capacity.
 

petersi

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In short no
Remember from 2018 a lot of services from Peterborough and Cambridge outer suburban will go through Thames link core. At weekend the inner suburban services will go to Moorgate so leaving platforms 9,10 and 11 underutilised.
Can 5 car IEP trains can use 9,10 and 11 ?
 
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swt_passenger

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As the new franchise holder is planning a number of new routes from Kings Cross, is there now any chance of more new platforms at K.X. I would have thought when the recent refurb was done there would have been an opportunity to do this, there is/was quite a bit of space betwenn KX & STP stations to all at least a couple of platforms.

There'll be no need for additional platforms, because they won't really be new routes. But in any case there is no longer any room at all between the stations.

The small number of extra arrivals at Kings Cross (only 1 or 2 per hour) will be after the morning peak ends, and there's significant spare platform capacity because by the time these service pattern changes occur (2018 ish?) half the Great Northern trains will have disappeared into the Thameslink tunnels. Most of the additional frequencies at the northern end of the network will turn out to be covered by extensions of current short workings.

Hypothetically (and greatly simplifying the probable solutions) if all the present Newcastle terminators ran to Edinburgh, and York terminators to Newcastle, and some Leeds terminators ran through Leeds, it wouldn't affect Kings Cross at all.

As an even simpler example, a 'new route to Sunderland' just means an early departure from Newcastle is rescheduled off the depot an hour earlier, and does an ECS trip to Sunderland and back in service, then picks up its normal timings. Return in the evening. So its more comparable with Virgins 'new route to Blackpool' in that it has no effect on most of the route.
 
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jopsuk

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Once Thameslink is fully connected to the Great Northern route, off peak the only "local" trains using Kings Cross will be the twice-hourly Kings Lynn via Cambridge. All other Cambridge, Peterborough, Welwyn, Hertford etc trains will be through the core or down to Moorgate.
 

Chris125

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There isn't any room anyway, the site to the west is already taken by a service area upon which the new Google London HQ will be built in due course.
 

Bald Rick

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No, and there's no need. The ECML will run out of track capacity long before KX runs out of platforms. 9 long platforms for - at the very most - 8 long distance trains an hour is more than enough.
 

Abpj17

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There are roads between the stations? And extra platforms don't help when there aren't the lines beyond the station for them to run on.
 
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Just out of interest, how long do the EC and other long distance trains occupy the KX platforms during their turn around?
Is there scope to run these trains out to a servicing facility and complete the turn around there, thus freeing up platform capacity?


 

ainsworth74

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Why would you? Track capacity at Kings Cross is more of a premium than platform capacity!

To answer your question though turn arounds at KGX are normally around fifteen minutes possibly shorter in the peaks maybe longer at the end of the day. Of course during disruption all bets are off.
 
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greatkingrat

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Why would you? Track capacity at Kings Cross is more of a premium than platform capacity!

To answer your question though turn arounds at KGX are normally around fifteen minutes possibly shorter in the peaks maybe longer at the end of the day. Of course during disruption all bets are off.

15 minutes? What EC service has that short a turnaround?

The minimum allowed in the Timetable Planning Rules is 30 min from Yorkshire, 35 from Newcastle, and 40 from Scotland. In practice many trains are in the platform for an hour or more.
 

Class 170101

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15 minutes? What EC service has that short a turnaround?

The minimum allowed in the Timetable Planning Rules is 30 min from Yorkshire, 35 from Newcastle, and 40 from Scotland. In practice many trains are in the platform for an hour or more.

And I thought it was supposed to be even longer on Sundays (upto 60 minutes?)
 

dysonsphere

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I might be wrong but is there still a spare tullel bore out of KX. I seem to recall a pic showing an empty one.
 
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DarloRich

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Where will they put them? York Way or Kings Cross Central ( or whatever the development by the side of the station is now called)

there is no space at all as far as i can see
 

Aictos

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The plan is to use the spare bore when the remodelling comes.

Huh! What remodelling are you on about? Just one question if Hotel Curve and York Road Curve were still able to be used then would they have been used for the Thameslink Programme? I know services wouldn't be able to stop at St Pancras but if it only was the GN services that didn't call there surely that would have been acceptable?
 

D6975

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In short no
Remember from 2018 a lot of services from Peterborough and Cambridge outer suburban will go through Thames link core. At weekend the inner suburban services will go to Moorgate so leaving platforms 9,10 and 11 underutilised.
Can 5 car IEP trains can use 9,10 and 11 ?

The short side platforms can take 2 x 4 car EMUs (317/365 etc.), not coupled up, with ease.
A 9 car IEP might just fit even.
 

jopsuk

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coupled, an 8-car 317/365 is ~160m. A nine car SET will be 234m. No way that would fit in the suburban shed!
 

Aictos

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coupled, an 8-car 317/365 is ~160m. A nine car SET will be 234m. No way that would fit in the suburban shed!

At 234m, it will be just short of the existing 12 cars at 240m that GN run into Kings Cross which for obvious reasons are restricted to Platforms 0 to 8.

As to Platforms 9 to 11, they can't take a 4 car 317/321/365 and a 5 car 180 on the same platform as they currently can only take 8 car trains which on Platform 9 for example is just enough to hold a 8 car train so unless you extend the platforms they will never be long enough to take any more then 160m trains.
 

HSTEd

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I actually did some numbers on KGX a while back as part of a flight-of-fancy of having a high speed line out if it (As part of my long running Shinkansen in all directions thing).

It involved digging out the tunnels north of the station and putting the canal on a bridge over the platform ends - but there is little to no need to actually add platforms, 9 long platforms is more than enough to handle the entire service by itself after Thameslink works are complete.
Even an HS2 grade HSL running in there is unlikely to require additional platforms as the suburban trainshed can easily soak up the handful of trains that would not convert to high speed operation or transfer to Moorgate/Thameslink. (The line was London-Cambridge-Norwich&Peterborough-Nottingham-HS2)
 
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