Appeal failed, how much longer do I have to pay before it’s the full amount?

[Needhelpquick]

Reveived a fine on May 3rd. Submitted my appeal online on May 7th. Just got the email today saying my appeal wasn’t successful, how much longer do I have to pay the fine before it’s increased to the full amount? Today was the 21st day after receiving my fine but I’ve been told the 21 day period is suspended when the appeal is received and resumes once it’s rejected. Is this true?

 

[AlterEgo]

To be clear, is this a Penalty Fare, and is this the first stage appeal?

 

[Needhelpquick]

To be clear, is this a Penalty Fare, and is this the first stage appeal?

Yeah, penalty fare and it was the first stage

 

[chorleyjeff]

Reveived a fine on May 3rd. Submitted my appeal online on May 7th. Just got the email today saying my appeal wasn’t successful, how much longer do I have to pay the fine before it’s increased to the full amount? Today was the 21st day after receiving my fine but I’ve been told the 21 day period is suspended when the appeal is received and resumes once it’s rejected. Is this true?

Try asking the organisation to who you owe the money.

 

[ainsworth74]

I could be wrong but I thought you had fourteen days following an appeal to either appeal to the second stage or to pay the Penalty Fare? Open to correction however.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Needhelpquick. What was the actual journey in question, and what were the grounds of your appeal?

 

[furlong]

Which station was the journey from?
In many cases at the moment an appeal against a Penalty Fare should succeed on the grounds that it was not issued in accordance with the regulations because the signage at many stations continues not to be compliant.
Consider a second appeal.

 

[MrJeeves]

Which station was the journey from?
In many cases at the moment an appeal against a Penalty Fare should succeed on the grounds that it was not issued in accordance with the regulations because the signage at many stations continues not to be compliant.
Consider a second appeal.

Exactly this.

Most stations (all that we've seen so far?) have either (a) no or inadequate penalty fare signage, or (b) incorrect penalty fare signage.

If you are nearby to the station you started your journey from, it would be worthwhile taking photos of penalty fare signage at any and all entrances to the station and sending them here to see if we can identify whether this would be a valid cause for appeal for your penalty fare.

 

[furlong]

any and all entrances to the station

Every entrance onto a platform! You see how difficult this is to get right?

Depending on which station it is there might be a shortcut but if you are going to take photos you need to do that correctly - showing every relevant notice both close up and in context, plus pictures along all the walking routes people use when boarding a train and when changing trains showing which "readily visible" notices they see. But it would be the train company's job to present those photos (which they should already have) to the Appeals Panel to prove the station complies.

 

[MrJeeves]

Every entrance onto a platform! You see how difficult this is to get right?

God, it really is!

Depending on which station it is there might be a shortcut but if you are going to take photos you need to do that correctly - showing every relevant notice both close up and in context, plus pictures along all the walking routes people use when boarding a train and when changing trains showing which "readily visible" notices they see.

To be honest, videos are probably far easier. One that shows movement from the closest road/footpath onto railway land and onto the platform, pausing to show the contents of individual notices encountered along the way.

It's a lot to ask, but it's worth seeing if your time is worth saving ~£50/£100.

 

[Needhelpquick]

@Needhelpquick. What was the actual journey in question, and what were the grounds of your appeal?

London King’s Cross to Cambridge. Had a ticket but didn’t realise it was Cambridge to London because when I scanned it at the barriers it let me through. So completely unaware it was the wrong way around until I showed the inspector. Not planning to appeal again, just want to pay it before it gets to the full amount but I don’t have the cash until payday next week so wanted to see how much time I have left

I could be wrong but I thought you had fourteen days following an appeal to either appeal to the second stage or to pay the Penalty Fare? Open to correction however.

So is that 14 days to pay before it escalates to the full amount or 14 before they take further action in collecting the penalty fare?

 

[furlong]

If you want more time to pay, then the way to get that is to appeal again.

What date was the Penalty Fare issued? May 3rd
What date did you appeal? May 7th
What date was the appeal decided? May 24th?

It escalates to the higher amount after 21 days, but not counting the days when any appeal was in progress.

You have 14 days from when the appeal was decided to appeal again.

Once the appeal deadline has passed, they can take enforcement action

 

[MrJeeves]

London King’s Cross to Cambridge. Had a ticket but didn’t realise it was Cambridge to London because when I scanned it at the barriers it let me through. So completely unaware it was the wrong way around until I showed the inspector. Not planning to appeal again, just want to pay it before it gets to the full amount but I don’t have the cash until payday next week so wanted to see how much time I have left

If you're near to KGX, it would be worth taking a photo of signage. If not, I will be passing by tomorrow afternoon.

It's likely the signage doesn't match that of the legislation, which is grounds for an appeal. An appeal has already been decided once, so it's not possible for the TOC to take this matter to magistrate's court anymore as a criminal matter.

I would recommend appealing tomorrow if the signage isn't accurate.

 

[Needhelpquick]

If you want more time to pay, then the way to get that is to appeal again.

What date was the Penalty Fare issued? May 3rd
What date did you appeal? May 7th
What date was the appeal decided? May 24th?

It escalates to the higher amount after 21 days, but not counting the days when any appeal was in progress.

You have 14 days from when the appeal was decided to appeal again.

Once the appeal deadline has passed, they can take enforcement action

Okay thank you, this is what I understood from their wording but I wasn’t sure if that was reality. You’ve been incredibly helpful

If you're near to KGX, it would be worth taking a photo of signage. If not, I will be passing by tomorrow afternoon.

It's likely the signage doesn't match that of the legislation, which is grounds for an appeal. An appeal has already been decided once, so it's not possible for the TOC to take this matter to magistrate's court anymore as a criminal matter.

I would recommend appealing tomorrow if the signage isn't accurate.

I’m not currently near but I will pass by again before I pay the notice. I’ll check it out, thank you!