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Are class 377 trains not fit for their purpose?

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Magdalia

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Class 377 and class 700 are both fit for purpose. They are very different because their purposes are very different.

Most London commuter services are in and out of London termini. At the termini everyone is getting off inbound services and getting on outbound services. When those trains stop at other London stations, for example Stratford or Tottenham Hale, it is still the case that most people are getting off inbound trains and getting onto outbound trains. Here the distinction between short and long journeys determines the layout: 3+2 provides more seats on longer distance journeys, where most people want to sit down. When the class 377s were new those seats were needed on commuter trains to/from the Sussex coast. The clearest new example of this is the 3+2 seating in the GA class 720. Space for circulation of passengers is not important because, when people get on or off crowded trains, nearly everyone is moving in the same direction, and at the termini time is not a constraint.

What makes Thameslink different is the core, a sequence of 5 stations where there are lots of people getting off and lots of people getting on the same trains. In order to maximise capacity through the core it is necessary to minimise dwell times in the core. With the 24tph objective that requires dwell times of no more than 1 minute. Most of the distinctive features of the class 700 are designed in to minimise dwell times in the core. In particular the space in class 700s is dynamic, for people to move around in, not static, for them to stand up in.

At busy times there is a large contingent of frequent travellers who are "nudged" into behaviours that help to reduce dwell times. One of those is for all of the trains to look the same, which is why a class 700/0 on Metro workings has the same layout as a class 700/1 on long distance workings. The precursor of the class 700 is the SWR class 455 refurbishment, which incorporated many of the design features of the class 700. That's because the Clapham Junction Windsor Line platforms, Wimbledon and Richmond come closest to replicating the Thameslink core challenge of minimising dwell times when lots of people are getting off and lots of people are getting on the same train.
 
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Starmill

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The only issue with the above is that the 700/0s also do an element of longer-distance work, both planned and unplanned.

What you’re describing sounds very close to a 365 interior, which is one of the few types of train interior which seemed to work reasonably well on *all* work.
Indeed it wouldn't be perfect. I forgot to say I'd also abandon First Class on the /0s which would cause a problem when used on express work. And yes, 380, 365 and 331 style interiors are among the very few which could do a good enough job with all different types of work using the same train.
 

David Goddard

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Although I have mainly used them at off peak times, I have always found the 377s (all sub-classes) perfectly fine for the work that they do. The interiors vary and its reasonably clear that the three and five car seem to have relatively consistent work but without studying the operations its hard to tell if any set work is applied for the four car sets, except for those used on the Watford work where dual voltage is required.
They are now the sole class of train for Southern's electrified routes and this has helped them achieve standardisation, which is good for maintenance, image and customer experience. The refresh was done at the right time and they are in a good place to serve for another twenty years. If more stock was to come in then the 23 x 377/5s should be the first fleet considered for a return.
 
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