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Are there any financial benefits/perks of joining a union?

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a729

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I don't mean wage bargaining or striking..I mean things like perks or discounts or special offers for union members

Ideally any perks that would offset the membership fees for example the packaged bank accounts with freebies that make the account worth paying for!?
 
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Fred26

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I don't mean wage bargaining or striking..I mean things like perks or discounts or special offers for union members

Ideally any perks that would offset the membership fees for example the packaged bank accounts with freebies that make the account worth paying for!?

The perks are the union will defend your rights as a worker and you individually should you face a disciplinary hearing... Is that not enough?
 

whhistle

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But in practice, if you're up for a disciplinary then it will probably be because you did something wrong.

Not to put the cat among the pigeons here but unions are a waste of time for me. I see no need for them. But then I see what effect "the union" has on the public, which simply isn't right as it isn't the public's fault - at least not this time!

In short, no.
You pay a sum each year and get a free diary. I think of it like an insurance policy which you pay into for years but see very little in gains.
 

mumrar

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But in practice, if you're up for a disciplinary then it will probably be because you did something wrong.

Not to put the cat among the pigeons here but unions are a waste of time for me. I see no need for them. But then I see what effect "the union" has on the public, which simply isn't right as it isn't the public's fault - at least not this time!

In short, no.
You pay a sum each year and get a free diary. I think of it like an insurance policy which you pay into for years but see very little in gains.

Unions give limited but free access to legal advice services, these people can help you with legal aspects outside of your workplace. There are many discounts available on things such as home and house insurance and many other percentage discounts offered to union members.

As to seeing no point to them, without then companies would pressure people to do things against their will and against the rules when it suited them and individuals would feel very vulnerable with nobody to unite these and back them up. I couldn't disagree with your post more strongly, and I don't even care about the diary.
 

Geargrinder

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But in practice, if you're up for a disciplinary then it will probably be because you did something wrong.

Not to put the cat among the pigeons here but unions are a waste of time for me. I see no need for them. But then I see what effect "the union" has on the public, which simply isn't right as it isn't the public's fault - at least not this time!

In short, no.
You pay a sum each year and get a free diary. I think of it like an insurance policy which you pay into for years but see very little in gains.

Good luck to you sir in your perfect accident, incident, malicious complaint, redundancy, sickness, employment terms and condition changes free life.
 

a729

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The perks are the union will defend your rights as a worker and you individually should you face a disciplinary hearing... Is that not enough?

I only have a casual 0-hour contract which means I might not even work in a month if work's are thin but I'd still have to pay union fees which would be financially foolish as I would effectively be making a loss on my job!

To be honest, I do feel confident I could defend myself, if I had to, through all the employee rights legislation which didn't exist in the 1950s when union membership was much higher/important than it s today!
 

Geargrinder

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I only have a casual 0-hour contract which means I might not even work in a month if work's are thin but I'd still have to pay union fees which would be financially foolish as I would effectively be making a loss on my job!

To be honest, I do feel confident I could defend myself, if I had to, through all the employee rights legislation which didn't exist in the 1950s when union membership was much higher/important than it s today!

It depends on what your role is. If you are involved in anything public facing, and/or a role where your decision making could result (however indirectly) with a death or injury or financial loss then I wouldn't be too confident without a union. Believe me if you were defending yourself in a court or inquest where the other side turn up with barristers etc - its poopy pants time....

I would add that I personally believe 0 hour contracts should be illegal.
 
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High Dyke

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Unions give limited but free access to legal advice services, these people can help you with legal aspects outside of your workplace. There are many discounts available on things such as home and house insurance and many other percentage discounts offered to union members.

As to seeing no point to them, without then companies would pressure people to do things against their will and against the rules when it suited them and individuals would feel very vulnerable with nobody to unite these and back them up. I couldn't disagree with your post more strongly, and I don't even care about the diary.
Hear, hear.

I only have a casual 0-hour contract which means I might not even work in a month if work's are thin but I'd still have to pay union fees which would be financially foolish as I would effectively be making a loss on my job!

To be honest, I do feel confident I could defend myself, if I had to, through all the employee rights legislation which didn't exist in the 1950s when union membership was much higher/important than it s today!
It may be worth asking if you can pay lower rate contributions, as a part time worker.

At the end of the day only you can make the choice whether to join a union or not. Personally i'm in a union, and a local rep, but that doesn't mean i agree with everything that comes out of the union HQ. Over the years i've stood on a picket line, i've taken part in industrial action, and yes it does hurt my pocket in those circumstances; however it has meant the employer taking notice. I don't have any political affiliation - and i don't intend to get any. Whilst i am in a position where i can represent others, or help them i am also in a union for my own benefit...should i fall foul of an employer that seems to want to ignore agreements and ride roughshod over its staff.
 

a729

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Unions give limited but free access to legal advice services, these people can help you with legal aspects outside of your workplace. There are many discounts available on things such as home and house insurance and many other percentage discounts offered to union members.

As to seeing no point to them, without then companies would pressure people to do things against their will and against the rules when it suited them and individuals would feel very vulnerable with nobody to unite these and back them up. I couldn't disagree with your post more strongly, and I don't even care about the diary.

I'd be interested to find out about those perks- though car/home insurance is irrelevant to me. If those discounts are worth more than the membership fee it would be wise for me to join

The last point is interesting but if you know your rights you can fight for them and use an employment tribunal if things go to that..... After all union membership is virtually non-existent in non-public/non-transport industries....

I don't think bankers have a union.. though they are handsomely paid!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It may be worth asking if you can pay lower rate contributions, as a part time worker.

At the end of the day only you can make the choice whether to join a union or not. Personally i'm in a union, and a local rep, but that doesn't mean i agree with everything that comes out of the union HQ. Over the years i've stood on a picket line, i've taken part in industrial action, and yes it does hurt my pocket in those circumstances; however it has meant the employer taking notice. I don't have any political affiliation - and i don't intend to get any. Whilst i am in a position where i can represent others, or help them i am also in a union for my own benefit...should i fall foul of an employer that seems to want to ignore agreements and ride roughshod over its staff.

Hmm I see though as a casual worker industrial action wouldn't work as the other load of colleagues would be happy to snap up shifts!
Still I'd hate to be effectively paying to have a 'job' if there's no work for a month or so!

I see what you mean, I'd probably think differently if I was in a full-time role and had a 'guaranteed' income, are you paid to be a union rep?

Also the fact that some parties donate to Labour or another political party irritates me as much as some local authorities wasting money joining CND in the 1980s!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But in practice, if you're up for a disciplinary then it will probably be because you did something wrong.

Not to put the cat among the pigeons here but unions are a waste of time for me. I see no need for them. But then I see what effect "the union" has on the public, which simply isn't right as it isn't the public's fault - at least not this time!

In short, no.
You pay a sum each year and get a free diary. I think of it like an insurance policy which you pay into for years but see very little in gains.

Hmm you have a point, though I guess unions can sometimes protect you even if you are in the wrong. I hear a Victoria line driver opened the doors on the wrong side AND then lied about carrying out the safety checks and TfL didn't take the serious action they could/would have done if the union hadn't threatened strike action....

I agree with you about the effects of strikes.. it's terrible when rather well paid tube drivers strike - after all they'll be on 52k by 2015 for say a 35 hour week- certainly not hard-done by members of the working class!
And I guess employment tribunals are open to everyone regardless of union membership..
 
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Harlesden

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Avoid the TSSA. A close friend was dismissed from LUL and he had been paying his TSSA dues for twelve years. When he went to them for advice and assistance, they could find "no record" of him ever having been a member. By the time they finally acknowledged that he had been a fully paid up member for more than a decade, the three months limit for the Employment Tribunal had expired.
The dismissal was spurious as he was accused of tampering with settings on his TOM (Ticket Office Machine) which would only have been possible from the station computer to which neither he nor any other Booking Clerk had access. The local system screwed up (early AM) and he happened to be the one signed on to the TOM at the time
 

a729

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Avoid the TSSA. A close friend was dismissed from LUL and he had been paying his TSSA dues for twelve years. When he went to them for advice and assistance, they could find "no record" of him ever having been a member. By the time they finally acknowledged that he had been a fully paid up member for more than a decade, the three months limit for the Employment Tribunal had expired.
The dismissal was spurious as he was accused of tampering with settings on his TOM (Ticket Office Machine) which would only have been possible from the station computer to which neither he nor any other Booking Clerk had access. The local system screwed up (early AM) and he happened to be the one signed on to the TOM at the time

I see! Why didn't he make a complaint and ask for a partial/full refund of all those (wasted) union dues?!

He should have gone it alone- a TfL job with all those perks and the good pension would be worth going alone IMO! Surely CCTV could have proved his innocence?

Also what settings were changed? Was it selling fares cheaper than it should have been or something?
 

reapz

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1. You should tell the union you dont want them to do pay talks for you and go in alone.

2. Pay back all the drivers that lost money by going on strikes to get good pay deals and conditions.

Not being in a union is disgusting and you sir are part of the problem, If everyone thought like you do we would be on bus driver wages and conditions split shifts etc.

The country needs people like you to continue to rape the working classes and pull the ladder up jack im ok .

Run for government you will fit in
 
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a729

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1. You should tell the union you dont want them to do pay talks for you and go in alone.

2. Pay back all the drivers that lost money by going on strikes to get good pay deals and conditions.

Not being in a union is disgusting and you sir are part of the problem, If everyone thought like you do we would be on bus driver wages and conditions split shifts etc.

The country needs people like you to continue to rape the working classes and pull the ladder up jack im ok .

Run for government you will fit in

Tbf bus driver wages aren't that bad- they are significantly better than minimum wage..though they are still a far way of tube/train drivers wages

Actually it's disgusting that (some) unions donate to the Labour party and allow the leaders to be in a similar league to the 'fat cats' they complain about.. Bob Crow is on over 100k never mind expenses ,etc...

Surely unions should be pushing for higher efficiency and more jobs rather than higher pay (after all unemployment is worse than a low-paid job)

Hmm likewise, If everyone thought like you ,the UK would have been part of the USSR

The people who lost money due to strikes chose to do so- surely there are other forms of industrial action which is less harmful to the wider economy and has less negative effects on the travelling public...

Never mind the effect of inflation caused by excessive wage increases (which saw in the 1970s...)

Actually I'd rather the ladder was replaced with an escalator!!
 
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GB

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Yes unions do contribute to party political funds, but as a member you have the option to opt out of this so your contributions do not go to politics.
 

455driver

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But in practice, if you're up for a disciplinary then it will probably be because you did something wrong.

Or you have been accused of doing something wrong!

We all know your views on unions and their membership! ;)

Do you have house/contents insurance?
I mean you pay for those and get nothing in return (not even a diary :lol:) "just in case" something goes wrong, just like paying union membership.

Union membership is just another insurance policy which you pay for just in case you need it but hope you never do.
 

richw

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The Unions campaigning for better pay for drivers is what has in my view caused reduced staffing elsewhere as the staff budget is still the same.
However I would say there are more positives than negatives to union membership as they are very useful to have behind you.
 

a729

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The Unions campaigning for better pay for drivers is what has in my view caused reduced staffing elsewhere as the staff budget is still the same.
However I would say there are more positives than negatives to union membership as they are very useful to have behind you.

Sadly not if you want to get a job in the transport sector :(
 

GB

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Agreed 100%. I appreciate your situation that you may not work a month because your on a zero hours contract but the benefits far out weigh the negatives and potential consequences of not being in one imo.
 

a729

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Agreed 100%. I appreciate your situation that you may not work a month because your on a zero hours contract but the benefits far out weigh the negatives and potential consequences of not being in one imo.

I'm glad you can see my point- though I guess it all depends on your circumstances- especially if you can afford it or not!

Personally I feel unions which have gone on strike during the last 6 years of recession for higher pay -especially with high unemployment after all a good union should be prepared to take small pay cuts to avoid job losses if necessary..
 

455driver

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I'm glad you can see my point- though I guess it all depends on your circumstances- especially if you can afford it or not!

Personally I feel unions which have gone on strike during the last 6 years of recession for higher pay -especially with high unemployment after all a good union should be prepared to take small pay cuts to avoid job losses if necessary..

What about those that have threatened strike action because TOCs have tried to renege on an agreed multi-year deal?
 

route:oxford

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I don't think bankers have a union.. though they are handsomely paid!

I think you'll find they do. It's called "Unite".

Originally if was Banking Insurance & Finance Union (BIFU), which became part to become UniFi, which then merged to become ACCORD, which then merged to become Unite.

Every time Unite sends out one of their rags it stirs banker-rage.

The average cashier in a bank or building society is on £12k, I'm not sure how much that compares to a cashier in a station. The job is essentially the same. Accept cash, recommend best product in line with legislation.


I was a member of a union, until I found my industry regulator could instruct a gagging order. This meant that I could not discuss the case or obtain support from my Union...
 

reapz

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I think you'll find they do. It's called "Unite".

Originally if was Banking Insurance & Finance Union (BIFU), which became part to become UniFi, which then merged to become ACCORD, which then merged to become Unite.

Every time Unite sends out one of their rags it stirs banker-rage.

The average cashier in a bank or building society is on £12k, I'm not sure how much that compares to a cashier in a station. The job is essentially the same. Accept cash, recommend best product in line with legislation.


I was a member of a union, until I found my industry regulator could instruct a gagging order. This meant that I could not discuss the case or obtain support from my Union...

the average cashier in a station is on 18-20k this is because the railway unions are strong. until people stop joining
 

Latecomer

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I think you are completely missing the point of a union if you are looking purely at what you individually might get out of it as if it's a kind of reward scheme.

Of course they are there for you as an individual - previous posts have already stated how important it can be for union people to represent you if things go wrong or if you go wrong. However capable you may be at defending yourself in a tribunal nothing beats the years of experience built up by the union reps as to how SPAD investigations work, what angles management are likely to take, and also they will have the blue book and the rule book instantly in their heads. That is reason enough, but even then that's not the real point of a union. A union is a collective which is there to protect workers rights and to do their best to ensure their terms and conditions aren't eroded. It is a pooling of resources to make sure people don't get trampled on. If you don't pay in to a union you will still benefit from aspects of what they do (even if you decline their representation individually) and that is just wrong to me.

It strikes me as a selfish attitude to only see what you might get out of a union in terms of financial savings or perks. It grates a bit when people decide not to join yet profit from the collective contributions of others when it comes to preserving those few decent terms and conditions that haven't been stripped away. Although I work for one of top paying TOC's I would happily give up a bit of my wage to get back some of the T&C's that have been sold off. Everything seems money driven these days.

I have some sympathy for the point of view that it's seemed a bit crude that train drivers have been on above inflation increases in many cases whereas public sector workers have seen pay cuts just to stay employed. I understand that. But the unions shouldn't be knocked for that - that's the system. The rail industry is one of the few places where the union is still alive and kicking and long may it remain so.

On a lighter note. The ASLEF diary is an essential piece of driver kit in my view.
 

a729

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What about those that have threatened strike action because TOCs have tried to renege on an agreed multi-year deal?

Shouldn't they wait till the recession is over to avoid being seen with the CEOs aka 'Fat cats' who get pay rises despite rising unemployment and falling wages?

I'm not a PR man but I think people should avoid having a bad reputation

Also is it wise for tube drivers to push for higher pay when some lines already have automatic trains and in theory could be run like the DLR with a PSA (who's paid much less than a tube driver!)?

Surely a union's main aim should be to avoid job losses (even increasing the number of employees) rather than wage increases -especially in a recession?

Also shouldn't all agreements be formally written down in a contract so it's legally enforceable??
 

Cherry_Picker

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But in practice, if you're up for a disciplinary then it will probably be because you did something wrong.

Not to put the cat among the pigeons here but unions are a waste of time for me. I see no need for them. But then I see what effect "the union" has on the public, which simply isn't right as it isn't the public's fault - at least not this time!

In short, no.
You pay a sum each year and get a free diary. I think of it like an insurance policy which you pay into for years but see very little in gains.


Really? Have you ever compared the pay and terms & conditions of the contracts for those in a unionised industry compared to a non unionised industry?


Every time Unite sends out one of their rags it stirs banker-rage.

The average cashier in a bank or building society is on £12k, I'm not sure how much that compares to a cashier in a station. The job is essentially the same. Accept cash, recommend best product in line with legislation.

Booking office staff salaries start at about £20k as far as I am aware.
 
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455driver

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Shouldn't they wait till the recession is over to avoid being seen with the CEOs aka 'Fat cats' who get pay rises despite rising unemployment and falling wages?

I'm not a PR man but I think people should avoid having a bad reputation
Oh so manglement and the unions agree a 5 year pay deal with productivity improvements (which are brought in in the first year) and then at year 3 the TOC says it isnt giving us the agreed payrise for years 3, 4 and 5 because there is a recession on (despite our passenger numbers still increasing) and you think the staff should just say 'okay thats fine, you have got your increased productivity but we wont take the agreed payrise' do you?
 

Legzr1

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I think you are completely missing the point of a union if you are looking purely at what you individually might get out of it as if it's a kind of reward scheme.

Of course they are there for you as an individual - previous posts have already stated how important it can be for union people to represent you if things go wrong or if you go wrong. However capable you may be at defending yourself in a tribunal nothing beats the years of experience built up by the union reps as to how SPAD investigations work, what angles management are likely to take, and also they will have the blue book and the rule book instantly in their heads. That is reason enough, but even then that's not the real point of a union. A union is a collective which is there to protect workers rights and to do their best to ensure their terms and conditions aren't eroded. It is a pooling of resources to make sure people don't get trampled on. If you don't pay in to a union you will still benefit from aspects of what they do (even if you decline their representation individually) and that is just wrong to me.

It strikes me as a selfish attitude to only see what you might get out of a union in terms of financial savings or perks. It grates a bit when people decide not to join yet profit from the collective contributions of others when it comes to preserving those few decent terms and conditions that haven't been stripped away. Although I work for one of top paying TOC's I would happily give up a bit of my wage to get back some of the T&C's that have been sold off. Everything seems money driven these days.

I have some sympathy for the point of view that it's seemed a bit crude that train drivers have been on above inflation increases in many cases whereas public sector workers have seen pay cuts just to stay employed. I understand that. But the unions shouldn't be knocked for that - that's the system. The rail industry is one of the few places where the union is still alive and kicking and long may it remain so.

On a lighter note. The ASLEF diary is an essential piece of driver kit in my view.

Well said.

Aslef also operate a sliding scale of contributions - I'd expect someone on a zero-hours contract to be paying in at the lower end.
 

whoosh

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East Coast drivers more than TWICE as PRODUCTIVE as under BR.

London Underground carrying more and more people each year. More PRODUCTIVITY for each driver.

Why should the staff budget still be the same? The workers should take a share of more money as they are more productive.
 
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