Are there any financial benefits/perks of joining a union?

[a729]

Oh so manglement and the unions agree a 5 year pay deal with productivity improvements (which are brought in in the first year) and then at year 3 the TOC says it isnt giving us the agreed payrise for years 3, 4 and 5 because there is a recession on (despite our passenger numbers still increasing) and you think the staff should just say 'okay thats fine, you have got your increased productivity but we wont take the agreed payrise' do you?

Well if the agreement is legally binding then the courts can be used, even if it's not there's still mediation and things such as 'work to rule' and bans on overtime to force the hand of the employer.

Also didn't TfL roll over for tube drivers whose inflation busting pay rises don't include a no-strike deal! ( I concede TfL is 1 of the better employers..)

Strike action should be an absolute last resort.

Also if the company was on the verge of bankruptcy or giving up the franchise (think National Express giving up on East Coast Main Line) it might be wise to accept a wage freeze/smaller wage increase to avoid job losses!

 

[455driver]

Ah so now you move the goalposts to try and make your ill thought out post seem more plausible.

I agree about strike action being a last resort though.
If you look at all recent, serious strike threats (I dont count comrade Crow threatening strikes every 5 minute ) you will see that they were all because of management refusing to stick to agreed deals/working practices.

 

[Legzr1]

Well if the agreement is legally binding then the courts can be used, even if it's not there's still mediation and things such as 'work to rule' and bans on overtime to force the hand of the employer.

You've asked a question and been given reasoned responses.

You've then attempted to undermine the whole idea of a union - sounds to me like your decision has already been made and you're now looking for justification.

Join or don't join, it's your choice but just think on - the bit I've quoted above - who do you think negotiated the 'agreement' in the first place?

Clue: It won't have been staff outside of a union or joint negotiation team even though they'll have benefited just as much as union members.

Do the right thing and pay £4 a week (or less) and support your colleagues.
At worst it's a safety net with 24 hour free legal representation.
At best it could save your job and livelihood.

 

[GB]

I see this has turned into a bit of union bashing now...only a matter of time:roll:

 

[reapz]

I see this has turned into a bit of union bashing now...only a matter of time:roll:

Members of the british public union bashing because there ****ed off in there own jobs with no unions.

Jealously gets you no where

 

[route:oxford]

Members of the British public union bashing because there ****ed off in there own jobs with no unions.

Jealously gets you nowhere

And the point of being a member when a regulator can use legislation to "gag" you?

Straight criminal offence to seek guidance from your union rep - or anyone...

 

[TheVicLine]

Perks?

No one has mentioned the ASLEF/RMT diary that you get sent each year, oh and of course the "free" pin badge

 

[youngboy]

Although I'm not in the railway industry I was a TGWU member for over 20 years, I often looked at my payslip and thought the money would be better spent elsewhere, but stuck with it mainly just for the protection and legal assistance if I was ever disciplined or sacked.

You lads in the rail industry have one of the best unions there is, but the only reason it's strong is because you stick together, the day the management divide the workers will be the day you lose control. I believe you deserve your pay and conditions you've fought hard for them, just because people in other industries (mine included) feel underpaid and undervalued does not mean you're overpaid, just that we're underpaid,end of !!.

I worked with a few lads who refused to join the union, but would gladly want to attend our briefings and listen to the outside official when he was brought in to negotiate our pay rise and I must admit that used to really grip my s**t, seen many times we got a good pay rise and the non union lads all laughing and taking the proverbial because the union negotiated for everyone them included and it cost them nothing.

We lost our final salary scheme pension about ten years ago and when I asked the outside official what the union was doing he said 'nothing, because no one else will back us if we take industrial action' I realised then that we were powerless in manufacturing and couldn't get help from any other unions.

The public sector workers are going through the same thing now but they needn't look around for backing because when we needed them they weren't there, and unfortunately the power of combined unions is gone and I don't think will ever be seen again. You lads should value what you have and IF I ever got a job on the railways I wouldn't hesitate to become a union member, perks or no perks !!

 

[reapz]

Although I'm not in the railway industry I was a TGWU member for over 20 years, I often looked at my payslip and thought the money would be better spent elsewhere, but stuck with it mainly just for the protection and legal assistance if I was ever disciplined or sacked.

You lads in the rail industry have one of the best unions there is, but the only reason it's strong is because you stick together, the day the management divide the workers will be the day you lose control. I believe you deserve your pay and conditions you've fought hard for them, just because people in other industries (mine included) feel underpaid and undervalued does not mean you're overpaid, just that we're underpaid,end of !!.

I worked with a few lads who refused to join the union, but would gladly want to attend our briefings and listen to the outside official when he was brought in to negotiate our pay rise and I must admit that used to really grip my s**t, seen many times we got a good pay rise and the non union lads all laughing and taking the proverbial because the union negotiated for everyone them included and it cost them nothing.

We lost our final salary scheme pension about ten years ago and when I asked the outside official what the union was doing he said 'nothing, because no one else will back us if we take industrial action' I realised then that we were powerless in manufacturing and couldn't get help from any other unions.

The public sector workers are going through the same thing now but they needn't look around for backing because when we needed them they weren't there, and unfortunately the power of combined unions is gone and I don't think will ever be seen again. You lads should value what you have and IF I ever got a job on the railways I wouldn't hesitate to become a union member, perks or no perks !!

Legend

 

[met331]

Well if the agreement is legally binding then the courts can be used, even if it's not there's still mediation and things such as 'work to rule' and bans on overtime to force the hand of the employer.

Also didn't TfL roll over for tube drivers whose inflation busting pay rises don't include a no-strike deal! ( I concede TfL is 1 of the better employers..)

Strike action should be an absolute last resort.

Also if the company was on the verge of bankruptcy or giving up the franchise (think National Express giving up on East Coast Main Line) it might be wise to accept a wage freeze/smaller wage increase to avoid job losses!

And who is going to pay to take said company to court ??? oh thats right the union you muppet. Without unions all railstaff would be on minimum wage because the companies would walk all over them.
Productivity has gone through the roof since the days of BR and companies profit from it. National Express failed on the east coast not through the staff failing but the management being greedy and projecting revenues it didnt have a hope in hell of getting.
The hardworking railstaff that run this industry deserve every penny they have fought for.
If and i highly doubt it but if you work in this industry then you should be ashamed at spouting such utter crap:roll:

 

[whhistle]

1. You should tell the union you dont want them to do pay talks for you and go in alone.

2. Pay back all the drivers that lost money by going on strikes to get good pay deals and conditions.

Not being in a union is disgusting and you sir are part of the problem.

1: You must have missed out the bit I wrote which said that employers will *usually* give a pay rise. If not, their employees will feel down in the dumps and not give great service, which in turn is bad news for the company.

2: That was in the past and their choice. Striking isn't compulsory.

3: Your closing sentence is why I don't like unions. You seem to think everyone should be in one like it is the law. This in addition to the fact Union people on the whole seem to be looking for a fight all the time.

Do you have house/contents insurance?
I mean you pay for those and get nothing in return (not even a diary ) "just in case" something goes wrong, just like paying union membership.

Union membership is just another insurance policy which you pay for just in case you need it but hope you never do.

And this is a way of looking at Union membership that I respect. The more you post 455driver, the more I respect what you say.
There is no "it's all about striking and getting more money", but more the positive side on what the Union can actually do for you.


If you want a lot more money, work your bum off and step up the ladder. Or find another job...

The problem I see is shareholders.
They want more money on their returns because they are greedy.
Therefore prices of chocolate go up.
Cadbury's workers then complain that the price of goods are going up, so want a pay rise.
The company has to find the money from somewhere, so they put their prices up again.

What a mess.
As there is no easy way to solve it and no hope of it being solved, then I'm sorry if I am a little selfish in life sometimes. I guess like someone else has said, the money (for me personally) would be better spent elsewhere. I'm not ruling it out for the future, just not right now and despise Union members I know cramming it down my throat.

Privatisation was a bad thing in the end, and not just for the railways.

 

[Legzr1]

This is £4 a week we're talking about here not £40 or £400.

Join the industry, join a union and reap the benefits of joint negotiations and sensible productivity talks.

Or stay where you are in a race to the bottom and save £4 a week.

Just don't stand on the sidelines spouting capitalistic nonsense.


The railway in general is a good place to be - the wages and T&C's are relatively excellent.Every vacancy is oversubscribed by a factor of 10, 100 or 1000.
You think that is all down to luck or a caring & sharing management structure?

I cannot understand the mindset of someone who is prepared to accept any gains 'won' during union/management negotiations but will not put their hand in their pocket for £4.

If that isn't greed then what is?

 

[a729]

1: You must have missed out the bit I wrote which said that employers will *usually* give a pay rise. If not, their employees will feel down in the dumps and not give great service, which in turn is bad news for the company.

2: That was in the past and their choice. Striking isn't compulsory.

3: Your closing sentence is why I don't like unions. You seem to think everyone should be in one like it is the law. This in addition to the fact Union people on the whole seem to be looking for a fight all the time.




And this is a way of looking at Union membership that I respect. The more you post 455driver, the more I respect what you say.
There is no "it's all about striking and getting more money", but more the positive side on what the Union can actually do for you.


If you want a lot more money, work your bum off and step up the ladder. Or find another job...

The problem I see is shareholders.
They want more money on their returns because they are greedy.
Therefore prices of chocolate go up.
Cadbury's workers then complain that the price of goods are going up, so want a pay rise.
The company has to find the money from somewhere, so they put their prices up again.

What a mess.
As there is no easy way to solve it and no hope of it being solved, then I'm sorry if I am a little selfish in life sometimes. I guess like someone else has said, the money (for me personally) would be better spent elsewhere. I'm not ruling it out for the future, just not right now and despise Union members I know cramming it down my throat.

Privatisation was a bad thing in the end, and not just for the railways.

I totally agree with you here!

I think unions are good but when they're not as aggressive as they were in the 70s and 80s !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And who is going to pay to take said company to court ??? oh thats right the union you muppet. Without unions all railstaff would be on minimum wage because the companies would walk all over them.
Productivity has gone through the roof since the days of BR and companies profit from it. National Express failed on the east coast not through the staff failing but the management being greedy and projecting revenues it didnt have a hope in hell of getting.
The hardworking railstaff that run this industry deserve every penny they have fought for.
If and i highly doubt it but if you work in this industry then you should be ashamed at spouting such utter crap:roll:

You forget that the union has to get it's money from fellow workers- that's just like saying the government will pay for something -that's not true as taxpayers have to pay for it too!

I'm saying if unions pushed for more pay in those times they wouldn't be genuinely acting in their member's best interest - after all lower pay is preferable to job losses anyday! ( unless of course if you can get a(n inflation busting) pay rise AND keep your job during a recession lol)


I agree unions are good BUT they should avoid antagonising their customers and playing to the hands of the Evening Standard/Daily Mail - Even the left-wing BBC, can't portray seemly perennially striking tube drivers in a good light!

 

[142094]

I agree unions are good BUT they should avoid antagonising their customers and playing to the hands of the Evening Standard/Daily Mail - Even the left-wing BBC, can't portray seemly perennially striking tube drivers in a good light!

Thing is, it gets results. I'd rather be in a union such as RMT where pay deals are much more favourable compared to some of the public sector unions.

 

[DarloRich]

This has all the hall marks of a trolling thread tbh

The OP clearly has an issue with unions, perhaps because he is in an employment role where people did not have strong union support and insidious zero hours contracts were allowed to become standard practice. It leans clearly to the why should you get better that me threads.

For the record i dont think my union have much power, mainly because we as members are not inclined to strike. However they do have access to top quality lawyers which, god forbid, should the need arise i can instruct at a reduced rate.

I also get a snazzy pen and diary! Oh and a desk calendar! oh and a mouse mat. Oh and a coaster I have seen tell of rulers but so far.................