Are Train Crew Shortages Spreading to EMR?

[Llandudno]

Lots of P Coded cancellations on EMR network tomorrow, Sat 29 March, due to a shortage of train crew.

Is this likely to be an isolated weekend occurrence, or is EMR going the same way as Cross Country and Northern with a lack of staff willing to work overtime at the weekend?

 

[Kneedown]

Lots of P Coded cancellations on EMR network tomorrow, Sat 29 March owing to a shortage of train crew.

Is this likely to be an isolated weekend occurrence or is EMR going the same way as Cross Country and Northern with a lack of staff willing to work overtime at the weekend?

Rest Day Working agreement has expired, and negotiations for renewal have stalled.

 

[Llandudno]

2137 Liverpool to Nottingham train cancelled tonight.

This is the last train of the evening and is usually pretty busy on a Saturday night and also provides the last stopping train of the night out of Manchester for Hope Valley line stations!

I wonder what, if any alternative arrangements will be made, could be challenging providing road transport to/from Edale station on a Saturday night?

 

[Killingworth]

2137 Liverpool to Nottingham train cancelled tonight.

This is the last train of the evening and is usually pretty busy on a Saturday night and also provides the last stopping train of the night out of Manchester for Hope Valley line stations!

I wonder what, if any alternative arrangements will be made, could be challenging providing road transport to/from Edale station on a Saturday night?

Users from Edale at that time of night are few but don't venture onto the railway without their personal backup plan. The telephone number of a friend or relative willing to drive towards Manchester or Sheffield, and same goes for those living along the Hope Valley! Services are so frequently disrupted for one reason or another that the plans are often activated.

 

[Class 170101]

Users from Edale at that time of night are few but don't venture onto the railway without their personal backup plan. The telephone number of a friend or relative willing to drive towards Manchester or Sheffield, and same goes for those living along the Hope Valley! Services are so frequently disrupted for one reason or another that the plans are often activated.

Depressing to read to be honest. The railway should be better than this. Following trains to pick up the slack?

 

[Mag_seven]

Rest Day Working agreement has expired, and negotiations for renewal have stalled.

Not this again - why don't they just continue with the existing agreement?

 

[baz962]

Not this again - why don't they just continue with the existing agreement?

Usual thing , No one really knows . Lots of mess room rumours etc and so us drivers feel in the dark too. Quite a few drivers were happy with the existing agreement.

 

[43066]

Not this again - why don't they just continue with the existing agreement?

The existing arrangement had expired, so needed to be renewed. From what has been said, the company wanted to decouple the rest day work agreement from the main pay talks which are currently taking place, but ASLEF resisted this as it would weaken their negotiating position. ASLEF are also potentially after a better RDW deal to reflect the more generous incentives now being paid elsewhere in the industry, such as Avanti and TPE. Then add in the DfT needing to sign everything off which slows the process down.

As @baz962 says nobody other than those directly involved has any more detail than that. Hopefully it will be resolved relatively quickly as pay talks are ongoing.

 

[Llandudno]

This is a great shame as EMR are (were!) one of the more reliable operators at weekends!

Looks as though it’s too risky to rely on them at weekends along with Northern, West Midlands Trains, Avanti and Cross Country.

Well back to the car it is unless my travel plans are TfW or TransPennine only…!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Looks as though it’s too risky to rely on them at weekends along with Northern, West Midlands Trains, Avanti and Cross Country.

I don't have much issue with Northern (I don't use the others as much) on Saturdays, but Sundays on Northern are hopeless.

 

[High Dyke]

A similar story of cancellations across EMR routes today as well.

 

[dk1]

This came through a few weeks ago on the same day that ASLEF agreed a RDW extension until 2027 for GA drivers with a substantial pay increase for this and Sunday working.

 

[Kite159]

Not really such a surprise when some operators are offering large incentives for RDW, the unions reps think "if they can offer X for that operator, we won't sign for anything unless similar is offered for us as well".

It will only end badly, and will only increase the pressure to cut costs by cutting timetables to reduce the amount of rest day working required.

 

[43066]

It will only end badly, and will only increase the pressure to cut costs by cutting timetables to reduce the amount of rest day working required.

I don’t see how it will “end badly” - it’s just business as usual! The pressure at the moment is to increase services, not to reduce them. Paying drivers an extra £100 per shift (or whatever) more than they get currently is still likely to be cheaper than employing more of them.

 

[Llandudno]

I don’t see how it will “end badly” - it’s just business as usual! The pressure at the moment is to increase services, not to reduce them. Paying drivers an extra £100 per shift (or whatever) more than they get currently is still likely to be cheaper than employing more of them.

And if the ‘pressure’ is on to increase weekend services then paying drivers an extra £100 per overtime shift probably only equates to around 5 extra passengers per duty?

Whereas with regular cancellations many passengers will simply be out off from using the train so there will be less pressure to increase services…!

 

[LCC106]

A £200 sign on and time and three quarters for Rest Day Work is what I’ve heard but not sure if that’s what EMR reps want or if that’s happening elsewhere.

 

[tram21]

This weekend there seemed to be very few cancellations on EMR, nothing like last weekend's shenanigans!!

Has this minor dispute been resolved or is it still ongoing?

 

[dk1]

This weekend there seemed to be very few cancellations on EMR, nothing like last weekend's shenanigans!!

Has this minor dispute been resolved or is it still ongoing?

It’s not so much a dispute. It’s just ASLEF have not sanctioned a RDW agreement with EMR.

It’ll go on as long as ASLEF feel EMR are not keeping their side of the bargain or that EMR feel they can hold out.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I don’t see how it will “end badly” - it’s just business as usual! The pressure at the moment is to increase services, not to reduce them. Paying drivers an extra £100 per shift (or whatever) more than they get currently is still likely to be cheaper than employing more of them.

The pressure at the moment in general is not to increase services but to reduce subsidies.

 

[Harpo]

Paying drivers an extra £100 per shift (or whatever) more than they get currently is still likely to be cheaper than employing more of them.

The Sunday service philosophy. Works until it doesn’t.

 

[43066]

The Sunday service philosophy. Works until it doesn’t.

It works fine so long as a negotiation is actually allowed to take place - part of the problem is that that still isn’t allowed at the moment with the DfT TOCs (there is scope for that to change as the focus is now apparently switching to reduction of costs net of revenue).

You don’t see freight, open access, Eurostar etc. struggling to crew trains, and all rely on overtime to an extent.

 

[tram21]

There seems to have been much less cancellations the last few days compared to the last few weeks.

Has the RDW agreement come together, and the problem has gone? Or has there just been less reliance on RDW after the Easter break, and negotiations are still ongoing?

 

[Colin1980]

There seems to have been much less cancellations the last few days compared to the last few weeks.

Has the RDW agreement come together, and the problem has gone? Or has there just been less reliance on RDW after the Easter break, and negotiations are still ongoing?

All training cancelled including safety briefs; so no instructors released for training or assessments, route learning cancelled, no mentor release with new trainees, the minimum holidays being granted etc all contributes to most jobs being covered but is clearly unsustainable even in short term and staff morale has taken a hit. Also, cancellations happening early so don't always show on the daily schedules.

 

[tram21]

cancellations happening early so don't always show on the daily schedules.

They put them all on the EMR website, but yes they do P-Code them. It just seems odd cancellations were very high previously but now they are almost zero. Like if you look at today on the EMR website, there are no driver shortage cancellations.