Arriva Revenue Protection - Help!

[TheMack]

Hi, I’m looking for some advice on the following incident.

I was recently travelling from Porth to Cardiff Central. I normally buy a ticket from the machine, but on arrival to the station the train was already there. So to avoid missing my train I jumped on with the intention of purchasing a ticket. As the train was so overcrowded the conductor went straight into his cabin and did not check any fares. On arrival at Cardiff, I went straight to the office to purchase a ticket. I explained the above and requested to purchase a return ticket right there and then. A member of the revenue protection team then approached me and asked me the same. Again, I explained what had happened and requested to purchase another ticket. However, I was told that “it was too late for that”! He said I should expect a letter in the next few weeks. I subsequently ended up purchasing a return on my way back home from Cardiff.

A letter has now arrived which states that my file is currently with the prosecution team for consideration and whether it should be placed in a magistrates court.

I want to avoid this at all costs, this is the first time for me to ever be involved with RPT. I always buy weekly tickets but on this occasion it was more cost effective for me to buy singles (I was going on holiday mid way through the week.

I understand that I’ve done wrong due to my lateness but I would very much like to settle this out of court.

What’s the best way to achieve this?

Thanks

 

[najaB]

I understand that I’ve done wrong due to my lateness but I would very much like to settle this out of court.

What’s the best way to achieve this?

Engage with TIL when they write to you. Be as honest and forthright as you have been here. Admit that you did wrong and offer to pay the costs they've incurred in investigating the case so far and there's a good chance you'll avoid a court date.

 

[cuccir]

NajaB's advice is good. 'TIL' are the company ('Transport Investigations Limited') who Arriva Trains Wales usually pass cases on to for investigation.

Unfortunately for you, ATW have over the last couple of years been more likely to prosecute than most train companies, particularly in the Cardiff area where they think that they have significant problems with fare evasion. You should be prepared to fail in attempting to avoid court, though it's not impossible. Based on your post, any prosecution would likely be for a Byelaws offence which does not require proof of intent to avoid paying a fare; this would be an easy prosecution for them BUT the fines are relatively modest and do not create a criminal record.

 

[toast]

very similar thing happened to me about 2 months ago. Write to them with a short letter (I took a photo of the letter and emailed it to them) saying sorry and asking if you can settle the matter with a payment. I quoted the bit on their website about 'sometimes we will take a payment to settle...' had a letter back last week saying I can pay a small fine to avoid court. If its the first time you've been caught you might be OK.
Good luck

 

[Gareth Marston]

The OP joined at a station that has a manned Booking Office and a TVM.

Was there an event on in central Cardiff?- if so its pretty much zero tolerance on boarding stations with facilities and not using them.

 

[TheMack]

The OP joined at a station that has a manned Booking Office and a TVM.

Was there an event on in central Cardiff?- if so its pretty much zero tolerance on boarding stations with facilities and not using them.

Hi, thanks for the reply. There was no event on in Cardiff Central, it was simply that I was running late and the train was already in the station. You are right in saying that there is a ticket office, but this is on the other platform. My full intention was to purchase from the conductor or from the office in Cardiff. The issue was that there was only two carriages running and many people boarding the train, so in order to ensure that I got to work in time and had a space, I boarded the train.

I understand that I should have bought a ticket before boarding, but I just wanted advice as to whether they are lenient on first offences.

Again, I am happy to pay for the administration fees etc and don’t want a criminal record.

Any advice on the best way for the train company to agree to this would be helpful.

Cheers

 

[TheMack]

Thanks all for your help. Does anyone know if Arriva are more likely to opt for an“out of court settlements” or will they prosecute where there was a genuine mistake?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Each case is looked at individually. The best thing is to engage, show contrition and make it easy for them to manage the case to a successful and quick conclusion. What we see here on the forum is it tends to be the people who don't engage (the dog ate the letter, I forget because i moved etc etc) that end up "volunteering for prosecution".

 

[TheMack]

If I was to draft a letter of response, would someone be willing review it. I’m very conscious Over the possibility that it may go to court.

Thanks

 

[Islineclear3_1]

If I was to draft a letter of response, would someone be willing review it. I’m very conscious Over the possibility that it may go to court.

Thanks

There are experts on here who can/will comment on your letter. Just leave out your personal details

 

[TheMack]

Hi, I have drafted the letter below. I would be grateful if any experts or senior members of the forum could provide some critique on it. Again, I understand that I am in the wrong and just want some constructive feedback as to whether it is apologetic enough.

Dear Sirs


I write further to your letter dated May 3rd 2018. As requested, I have detailed the incident below and would be grateful if it could be considered when assessing the file.

On ____, I arrived at Porth train station whilst the 8:09am train had already arrived. As the train had already arrived at the station, I became conscious that I would be late for work if I purchased a ticket from the machine / office (which is on another platform). Therefore, I alighted on the train with the intention of purchasing a ticket from the conductor. As the train was overcrowded I was unable to see any conductor. On arrival at Cardiff Central, I made my way straight to the ticket office to purchase a daily return from Porth to Cardiff. I explained the above and requested a return ticket from Porth to Cardiff central. The Arriva attendant then called over a member of the Revenue Protection Team (RPT). The RPT officer quizzed me on why I had not bought a ticket, I explained what happened and queried whether I could just purchase a ticket as I was not trying to avoid the fare. However, I was told that I couldn’t, instead, he explained that a letter would be sent to me in the next few weeks, he then escorted me to the barriers and let me out. After finishing work and returning to the station, I purchased a ticket to Porth.


Please consider that I have worked in Cardiff for nearly 3 years and have always bought a ticket. I usually purchase weekly tickets, but as I was going on holiday later that week, it was more cost effective for me to purchase returns each day. Throughout my time travelling to Cardiff, I have never been involved with the RPT and I would like to stress that I was not trying to avoid the fare. I understand that I should have bought a ticket at the departure station, but due to my lateness and the sheer panic of being late for work I boarded the train with the intention to purchase a ticket from the conductor, and if that failed the office at Cardiff Central.

I understand and deeply apologise for the incident and I will make sure to allow myself sufficient time in the future to purchase a ticket.

I would like to bring the matter to an early and amicable close by compensating Arriva Trains Wales for the administrative and other expenses that you/they have incurred to date, and of course the fare which I did not end up paying on the day. If you could advise what these sums are, I will arrange prompt payment.

Again, I am very sorry for the incident.

Yours sincerely

 

[TheMack]

Hi, I have drafted the letter below. I would be grateful if any experts or senior members of the forum could provide some critique on it. Again, I understand that I am in the wrong and just want some constructive feedback as to whether it is apologetic enough.

Dear Sirs


I write further to your letter dated May 3rd 2018. As requested, I have detailed the incident below and would be grateful if it could be considered when assessing the file.

On ____, I arrived at Porth train station whilst the 8:09am train had already arrived. As the train had already arrived at the station, I became conscious that I would be late for work if I purchased a ticket from the machine / office (which is on another platform). Therefore, I alighted on the train with the intention of purchasing a ticket from the conductor. As the train was overcrowded I was unable to see any conductor. On arrival at Cardiff Central, I made my way straight to the ticket office to purchase a daily return from Porth to Cardiff. I explained the above and requested a return ticket from Porth to Cardiff central. The Arriva attendant then called over a member of the Revenue Protection Team (RPT). The RPT officer quizzed me on why I had not bought a ticket, I explained what happened and queried whether I could just purchase a ticket as I was not trying to avoid the fare. However, I was told that I couldn’t, instead, he explained that a letter would be sent to me in the next few weeks, he then escorted me to the barriers and let me out. After finishing work and returning to the station, I purchased a ticket to Porth.


Please consider that I have worked in Cardiff for nearly 3 years and have always bought a ticket. I usually purchase weekly tickets, but as I was going on holiday later that week, it was more cost effective for me to purchase returns each day. Throughout my time travelling to Cardiff, I have never been involved with the RPT and I would like to stress that I was not trying to avoid the fare. I understand that I should have bought a ticket at the departure station, but due to my lateness and the sheer panic of being late for work I boarded the train with the intention to purchase a ticket from the conductor, and if that failed the office at Cardiff Central.

I understand and deeply apologise for the incident and I will make sure to allow myself sufficient time in the future to purchase a ticket.

I would like to bring the matter to an early and amicable close by compensating Arriva Trains Wales for the administrative and other expenses that you/they have incurred to date, and of course the fare which I did not end up paying on the day. If you could advise what these sums are, I will arrange prompt payment.

Again, I am very sorry for the incident.

Yours sincerely

Sorry to be an absolute pain, but Could anyone get back to me on this as I would like to send it by the end of the week. Cheers

 

[najaB]

On my phone so this will be brief.

It's too long. You could write half as much and say just as much.

 

[TheMack]

On my phone so this will be brief.

It's too long. You could write half as much and say just as much.

Hi NajaB, thanks for the reply. Are there any particular parts that you recommend should be shortened?

 

[Haywain]

Without going in to detail, far too long. Probably best to leave out the second paragraph and shorten the first. You want the reader to engage with you, not get bored.

 

[TheMack]

Would it be worthwhile to call TIL to discuss the possibility of settling outside of court before I send my letter? Or should I just respond in writing initially?

 

[njr001]

I'm not the one to advise how much to include etc. However amend the second line of your first paragraph, you would 'board' a train when you get onto it and 'alight' when you leave/get off a train.

 

[Haywain]

Would it be worthwhile to call TIL to discuss the possibility of settling outside of court before I send my letter? Or should I just respond in writing initially?

I don't think this is generally advised, as writing gives you full control of what you are saying and the ability to retain a copy.

Further to my previous comment about your letter, in essence all you need to say is what occurred, that you are aware that you made a serious mistake and that you have learned from this and it won't be repeated. In the final paragraph, cut the bit about not paying the fare on the day (they already know). My experience of dealing with customer letters is that if they are too long I lose interest very quickly (unless they are very humorous, but you don't want levity in your situation), so something that says the right things reasonably briefly is easier to deal with.

 

[_toommm_]

Edited/shortened:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write further to your letter dated May 3rd 2018. As requested, I have detailed the incident below:

On ____, I arrived at Porth train station where the 8:09am train was waiting on the platform. As the train had already arrived at the station I boarded the train with the intention of purchasing a ticket from the conductor, as to not miss the train. As the train was overcrowded I was unable to see any conductor, so on arrival at Cardiff Central, I made my way straight to the ticket office to purchase a return from Porth to Cardiff. I explained the above and requested a Porth to Cardiff Central return. The staff member subsequently called over a member of the Revenue Protection Team (RPT). The RPT officer quizzed me on why I had not bought a ticket - I explained what happened, however was told that I couldn’t buy a ticket, instead, he explained that a letter would be sent to me in the next few weeks, after which he escorted me to the barriers and let me out. After finishing work and returning to the station, I purchased a ticket covering my return journey to Porth.


I now understand that boarding the train without a ticket, when buying facilities are available, is an offence, and one which I will not commit again. In future, I will leave sufficient time in which to purchase the required ticket before boarding.


I would like to bring the matter to a close, through compensating Arriva Trains Wales for the relevant fare due for the day, plus any extra administrative costs and costs owing to the time spent on my case

Again, I am extremely sorry for the incident and it will not happen again.

Yours sincerely,
______________

 

[_toommm_]

It may sound petty, but good grammar and spelling helps a lot, just like on your CV or on an application. While there wasn't any massive errors, a little proofread never goes amiss, thus showing a commitment to taking time out and a willingness to resolve it.

 

[TheMack]

Thanks all for your help, I’m hoping to send the letter either today or tomorrow and scan a copy to them.

Would it be worthwhile to include photocopies of my previous tickets?

 

[TheMack]

Hi guys, thanks for all your help. If anyone is interested, I have sent a reply to the letter (by post and email) which explained my side of the story and offered my apologies. Hopefully, this will resolve the matter and there will be no need to involve the Court.

I will let you know what happens when they respond.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[najaB]

I will let you know what happens when they respond.

Please do. Good luck.

 

[TheMack]

Hi everyone, just thought I’d let you know that TIL accepted the out of court settlement. I received a letter yesterday which said they would accept £69.60.

I’m so happy with the result and I’ve definitely learnt not to attempt to buy at the destination station. Just want to thank you all for your help!

 

[najaB]

Just want to thank you all for your help!

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Haywain]

Hi everyone, just thought I’d let you know that TIL accepted the out of court settlement. I received a letter yesterday which said they would accept £69.60.

I’m so happy with the result and I’ve definitely learnt not to attempt to buy at the destination station. Just want to thank you all for your help!

Good news, glad you got a satisfactory result.

 

[[.n]]

thanks for the update