Asbestos on the UK Railway

[SallyH_1973]

Hello,

I am doing a research project into asbestos on the UK railway. I was wondering if anybody could give various insights into the prevalence of the material on the modern railway?

I am particularly interested in the usage of asbestos at stations and on rolling stock and the efforts which have been made to remove it. Are there any trains still in service today which contain asbestos?

Sorry if this is posted in the incorrect place, please move if so.

Kindest regards,
Sally

 

[L401CJF]

Merseyrails fleet of class 507/508 units dating back to the late 70s/early 80s apparently have asbestos material in the heating systems. It was brought up as a safety issue a while back (mainly for engineering staff during maintenance etc).

Link to a Liverpool Echo article here.

Asbestos scare on Merseyrail trains

HEATERS on most of Merseyrail’s trains were turned off last week while the operator waited for the results of tests for asbestos.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Heaters in all Merseyrail’s trains, some of which are 34-years-old, contain white asbestos.

Shortly after Merseyrail introduced safety procedures at its Birkenhead North depot to protect maintenance crews while working on the heating units. An RMT official said: “As with everything containing asbestos they are perfectly safe when in service but care needs to be taken when units are being stripped down during maintenance.”

These trains are however being phased out, with the remainder set to be scrapped by mid 2024. Presumably similar materials would be found on other types of train from that era. The class 313/314/315 units of the same family have all been withdrawn and scrapped in recent years, the final class 313s having been phased out this year (bar a couple which have been saved by preservation groups)

I'm sure others will be along shortly but hopefully this is of some use!

 

[AngusH]

Some information that may be of use if you haven't seen them already:


This survey (2019) by ORR into asbestos in uk railways
(specifically in respect to exemption certificates, but the survey results may be useful)

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/om/findings-and-conclusions-from-reach-asbestos-exemption-survey-2019.pdf

Network rail has some information on the topic

Advanced search - Safety Central

Specifically the "Guidance notes" zip downloads which has examples of installations
that NR think might contain asbestos.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/om/asbestos-position-statement-2014-11-27.pdf

ORR thinks "Most modern (post 1980) mainline rolling stock is unlikely to contain significant amounts of asbestos"
but "It can be found in a number of areas on heritage trains and older carriages"
(section 1.5)

Also, much older, but this hansard record about BR's asbestos removal activities in the 1970s:

BRITISH RAIL (ASBESTOS STRIPPING) (Hansard, 23 March 1978)

BRITISH RAIL (ASBESTOS STRIPPING) (Hansard, 23 March 1978)

api.parliament.uk

And there was a large program of asbestos removal in vehicles running into the 1980s:

This hansard report describes how such work was pretty much the only thing keeping certain railway works open, but some of the vehicles were instead scrapped and the works were closed:

Adjournment (Spring) (Hansard, 16 May 1985)

Adjournment (Spring) (Hansard, 16 May 1985)

api.parliament.uk

 

[yorksrob]

For some time in the late 20th century it was de rigeur to replace attractive patterned wooden valancing on platform canopies with asbestos sheeting. Better than no canopy at all I suppose !

 

[Magdalia]

Hello,

I am doing a research project into asbestos on the UK railway. I was wondering if anybody could give various insights into the prevalence of the material on the modern railway?

I am particularly interested in the usage of asbestos at stations and on rolling stock and the efforts which have been made to remove it. Are there any trains still in service today which contain asbestos?

Sorry if this is posted in the incorrect place, please move if so.

Kindest regards,
Sally

Hello Sally and welcome to the forum. This will have to be a brief reply as I'm getting ready to go out for a day of research.

As far as I can tell British Railways first identified blue asbestos as an issue in 1973. It mainly affected diesel multiple units (DMUs) and electric multiple units (EMUs) that had been built in the late 1950s/early 1960s, using blue asbestos as an insulating material. I'm not aware of there being a significant issue with blue asbestos in locomotive hauled coaches, possibly because they were heated in a different way and didn't need to use blue asbestos for insulation.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s there was a big programme of blue asbestos removal on DMUs and EMUs with a long term future, often but not always done as part of mid-life refurbishment. Some trains that were planned to be withdrawn quite quickly had the blue asbestos left undisturbed.

There are references to blue asbestos in British Railways files for this period in the National Archives at Kew, notably the mechanical and electrical engineering committee and the investment committee.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think the elimination of slam-door stock on the Southern lines in 2000 also removed a lot of the remaining asbestos in rolling stock, dating back to the 1950s.

 

[John Webb]

Lineside cable troughs were at one time made from asbestos-reinforced concrete. You'd need to find out the exact composition of these, but I recall reading some while ago that, like 'asbestos sheeting' mentioned in post #4 above, the proportion of asbestos to concrete is around 1:10.

 

[ac6000cw]

'Asbestos Cement' sheets were commonly used as a roofing and wall cladding material on industrial and farm buildings for decades up to the 1970s at least, so I think there's bound to be railway buildings around which still have it. See https://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/cement.htm for info about it. I understand it was basically a mixture of 10%-30% white asbestos fibres and cement, moulded into flat or corrugated sheets and other shapes.

 

[AY1975]

As far as I can tell British Railways first identified blue asbestos as an issue in 1973. It mainly affected diesel multiple units (DMUs) and electric multiple units (EMUs) that had been built in the late 1950s/early 1960s, using blue asbestos as an insulating material. I'm not aware of there being a significant issue with blue asbestos in locomotive hauled coaches, possibly because they were heated in a different way and didn't need to use blue asbestos for insulation.

A lot of loco-hauled Mark 1 coaches had it too (and maybe XP64 and early Mark 2 stock but I'm not sure).

 

[JonathanH]

I think the elimination of slam-door stock on the Southern lines in 2000 also removed a lot of the remaining asbestos in rolling stock, dating back to the 1950s.

While the CEP units and early VEPs and CIGs were built with asbestos insulation, it was removed as part of the refurbishments in the 1980s and early 1990s.

 

[172007]

Snow Hill Station has Asbetstos signs all over and it was built 1986. Believe the steel beams holding the car part up above also have flame/heat retardant material containing asbestos.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the 1972 Stock trains on the Bakerloo Line still contain asbestos.

And possibly the 1973 Stock on the Piccadilly Line if I recall correctly?

 

[eldomtom2]

Asbestos was used for boiler cladding - I imagine most preserved steam locos that haven't turned a wheel since preservation still contain asbestos.

 

[AY1975]

Snow Hill Station has Asbetstos signs all over and it was built 1986. Believe the steel beams holding the car part up above also have flame/heat retardant material containing asbestos.

And a few years ago Alfreton station, which reopened (as Alfreton & Mansfield Parkway) in 1973, had red "Danger - asbestos" signs on the ceiling tiles in the waiting room. Those signs seemed to have disappeared last time I was there, though, so maybe the asbestos has been removed.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Hello,

I am doing a research project into asbestos on the UK railway. I was wondering if anybody could give various insights into the prevalence of the material on the modern railway?

I am particularly interested in the usage of asbestos at stations and on rolling stock and the efforts which have been made to remove it. Are there any trains still in service today which contain asbestos?

Sorry if this is posted in the incorrect place, please move if so.

Kindest regards,
Sally

Welcome to the forum

I'm also interested in asbestos on the UK railway strangely enough.

I can recommend trying the 'what do they know ' website as there are quite a few asbestos survey reports requested via freedom of information act. Definitely one on there for Crewe station.

 

[75A]

While the CEP units and early VEPs and CIGs were built with asbestos insulation, it was removed as part of the refurbishments in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Caused illness & deaths I remember with staff @ Eastleigh.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Caused illness & deaths I remember with staff @ Eastleigh.

The RMT have a register for workers who may have been exposed to asbestos whether directly or who worked in an environment where asbestos might be present (including on trains).

 

[75A]

A couple of my friends (1 now deceased) spent their working lives there.

 

[eldomtom2]

The RMT have a register for workers who may have been exposed to asbestos whether directly or who worked in an environment where asbestos might be present (including on trains).

A lot of railway workshop staff weren't NUR/RMT though, were they?

 

[Ashley Hill]

A lot of railway workshop staff weren't NUR/RMT though, were they?

I would imagine other unions would have such a scheme.
Unison have one.

 

[Rick1984]

The parcel bridge at Peterborough had warning signs for asbestos cladding recently, not sure if still the case

 

[thejuggler]

I've not been involved in railway premises, but have experience of asbestos in lots of similar aged buildings.

There is likely to be asbestos everywhere in older stations and in the most surprising places as it was used in so many products. 1960s vinyl floor tiles and what appear to be black plastic toilet cisterns are two many are unaware of, they will probably have been replaced, but overboarding is not uncommon.

Textured wallcoverings applied in the 60s and 70s was full of it. Some will be identifed, some could have been plastered over. Fireboarding and spray fire protection in lift and machinery motor rooms.

Much is likely to be inaccessible and often is found until major works are being planned (or even underway).

The other aspect to consider is during major works and demolition and rebuilds, especially in built up areas where the station buildings may have replaced earlier buildings. Earlier buildings were generally demolished and waste buried on site, during later redevelopment buried asbestos may well be disturbed and uncovered.

 

[Ken X]

Not a railway employee but I have seen a lot of asbestos flash guards in electrical switch gear and control boxes over the years. May possibly have relevance to railway engineering.

 

[AndrewP]

I am not in the rail industry but do work extensively in property including doing training and other learning.

The rule of thumb in the property and facilities world is that if it dates from before 1980 then assume that there is asbestos until proven otherwise.

As asbestos was a very effective and useful material in many respects (it's dangers were long misunderstood and then downplayed for a number of years) its use was widespread. White asbestos is the most common type currently in existence and it is also the least dangerous.

It is also worth noting that when encapsulated asbestos is safe so it needs to be managed rather than removed hence why so much is still about.

For those wondering why it is so dangerous (several of you will already know) it's the shape of the fibres being like fish hooks - they can be breathed in but can't be breathed out again

 

[exbrel]

I would imagine other unions would have such a scheme.
Unison have one.

i was in the workshops, and worked on steam,diesel and electric loco's, and was in the AEU, and never heard of a list,we removed it from sleeping coaches quiet afew if i remember correctly in the 80's. On the loco's it was used well into the 70's on frost precaution.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Asbestos was used for boiler cladding - I imagine most preserved steam locos that haven't turned a wheel since preservation still contain asbestos.

It's one of the major reasons why City of Birmingham will never be returned to steam. One of the last locomotives left purely lagged in asbestos. Would be extremely dangerous/expensive to remove it to overhaul the boiler it covers

 

[cjmillsnun]

I would imagine other unions would have such a scheme.
Unison have one.

All unions have one.

 

[thecrofter]

A lot of railway workshop staff weren't NUR/RMT though, were they?

It was a closed shop in 1972 when I joined BR so everyone had to be in the relevant Union for their discipline. Workshop staff invariably joined the NUR. Can't remember when the rules changed mind.

 

[greyman42]

It was a closed shop in 1972 when I joined BR so everyone had to be in the relevant Union for their discipline. Workshop staff invariably joined the NUR. Can't remember when the rules changed mind.

I worked at BREL and tradesmen were not in the NUR. I cannot remember the name of the union but it no longer exists. I think it became part of the GMB.

 

[Eastern Farmer]

The parcel bridge at Peterborough had warning signs for asbestos cladding recently, not sure if still the case

I last used that bridge in late August and can confirm they were still there then so unless something has been done in the past couple of months they’ll still be there now.