Ashford Int'l - Wokingham

[TheJRB]

Hi,


My grandfather and I (he has a Senior Railcard and I have a 16-25) are trying to find the cheapest way to get from Ashford International to Wokingham next Wednesday, arriving before 11:30.

In my research, I have discovered that breaking the journey at Tonbridge and travelling "via Gomshall" could be the key, travelling as follows:

Ashford Int'l 08:33 - Tonbridge 09:08
Tonbridge 09:19 - Redhill 09:50
Redhill 10:13 - Wokingham 11:10

Ticketing would be as follows:
Anytime Day R Ashford - Tonbridge Any Permitted = £21.40
Anytime Day R Ashford - Tonbridge 16-25 Any Permitted = £14.15
Off-Peak Day R Tonbridge - Wokingham Senior Via Gomshall = £16.45
Off-Peak Day R Tonbridge - Wokingham 16-25 Via Gomshall= £16.45
TOTAL = £68.45

That's all fine and I'm happy with it (so long as my grandfather is!). What bothers me is the extended journey time (3 hours 17 minutes!) in the return direction owing to poor connections at Redhill and Tonbridge.

The Tonbridge - Wokingham ticket routed "London Not Und" is £16.25 making it 20p cheaper than via Gomshall, but is not valid until 09:29 rather than the 08:59 on the Gomshall ticket which makes all the difference.

Would it be possible to get an excess (even though the latter is cheaper) from "Via Gomshall" to "London Not Und" so that we could travel the quicker route via Waterloo? If so, what are the chances of actually getting such an excess from a guard or ticket office? I'm sceptical about excesses after being refused the proper price on a change of route excess by two Southeastern guards before (they both asked for the full difference instead of half the difference).


Many thanks,

Josh

 

[soil]

Cheaper:

Ashford - Portsmouth Stations via Edenbridge/Polegate £25/£16.50 Anytime Day Return
Guildford - Wokingham £5.35 Off Peak Day Return (valid 08:59 or later, £8.10 minimum fare applies before 10am)

Total £25 + £16.50 + £10.70 = £52.20


Note that the route for Ashford - Portsmouth is Ashford - Tonbridge - Redhill - Guildford - Portsmouth, and you will therefore switch tickets at Guildford.

The return time can be quicker than 3:17, but it depends when you want to go.

If you do want to go via Waterloo & Waterloo East

Ashford Int'l - Edenbridge Not Via London Anytime Day Return £24/£15.85
Edenbridge - Wokingham Any Permitted Off Peak Day Return £16.35
Total = £32.70 + £24 + £15.85 = £71.55

The Edenbridge - Wokingham ticket is valid Edenbridge - Tonbridge - London - Wokingham, so if you went via London coming back you'd effectively be stopping/starting at Tonbridge on both tickets. As it's Any Permitted you can route via Reading & Paddington if you like, though obviously not onto HS, as the train still needs to call at Tonbrdige.

 

[yorkie]

Would it be possible to get an excess (even though the latter is cheaper) from "Via Gomshall" to "London Not Und" so that we could travel the quicker route via Waterloo? If so, what are the chances of actually getting such an excess from a guard or ticket office? I'm sceptical about excesses after being refused the proper price on a change of route excess by two Southeastern guards before (they both asked for the full difference instead of half the difference).

As Soil says this isn't the cheapest, but to answer your question: if the guard tried to charge me the full difference for a change of route excess, I'd be tempted to say I only have enough money for the correct amount. I'd also ask them to look up the procedure in The Manual (be polite, but assertive, and ask questions). I don't recall you posting a dispute about that?

 

[TheJRB]

Cheaper:

Ashford - Portsmouth Stations via Edenbridge/Polegate £25/£16.50 Anytime Day Return
Guildford - Wokingham £5.35 Off Peak Day Return (valid 08:59 or later, £8.10 minimum fare applies before 10am)

Total £25 + £16.50 + £10.70 = £52.20


Note that the route for Ashford - Portsmouth is Ashford - Tonbridge - Redhill - Guildford - Portsmouth, and you will therefore switch tickets at Guildford.

The return time can be quicker than 3:17, but it depends when you want to go.

If you do want to go via Waterloo & Waterloo East

Ashford Int'l - Edenbridge Not Via London Anytime Day Return £24/£15.85
Edenbridge - Wokingham Any Permitted Off Peak Day Return £16.35
Total = £32.70 + £24 + £15.85 = £71.55

The Edenbridge - Wokingham ticket is valid Edenbridge - Tonbridge - London - Wokingham, so if you went via London coming back you'd effectively be stopping/starting at Tonbridge on both tickets. As it's Any Permitted you can route via Reading & Paddington if you like, though obviously not onto HS, as the train still needs to call at Tonbrdige.

Thanks for these very helpful suggestions. I think I'd rather opt for the second choice because of the flexibility of route.

As Soil says this isn't the cheapest, but to answer your question: if the guard tried to charge me the full difference for a change of route excess, I'd be tempted to say I only have enough money for the correct amount. I'd also ask them to look up the procedure in The Manual (be polite, but assertive, and ask questions). I don't recall you posting a dispute about that?

In my case above the ticket I want to excess to is cheaper than the ticket held. I'm aware that tickets are automatically valid via cheaper routes, but I don't too much fancy trying to get through the barriers at Waterloo and Waterloo East with a ticket marked "Via Gomshall". What I meant to say is, what are the chances of getting a zero excess?

Regarding my comment about the Southeastern guards, it was on a journey from Ashford to Gatwick earlier this year. My grandfather and I had Off-Peak Day Return tickets routed "Via Edenbridge" (£9.90 each) and wanted to excess to "†Any Permitted" (originally £24.70 each) so that we could return via Thameslink and St Pancras (purely for a change of scenery). The guard on the train from Ashford to Tonbridge said it would be expensive, looked it up and quoted £14.80 each. I found the guard on the Tonbridge to Redhill train (also a Southeastern guard) and he quoted the same figure again but said he would come down and talk it through later in the journey. I pulled up the figures and gave my explanation of why I thought it should be £7.40 each but he maintained that because the difference between a single and a return was only 10p, the full difference was necessary. We gave up and returned via Edenbridge as I didn't want to try my luck on a Thameslink train and I couldn't ultimately be bothered to try the ticket office at Gatwick.

 

[John @ home]

Would it be possible to get an excess (even though the latter is cheaper) from "Via Gomshall" to "London Not Und" so that we could travel the quicker route via Waterloo?

I think it would be better (and very slightly cheaper) to buy the TONBRIDGE - WOKINGHAM OFF-PEAK DAY RETURN route LONDON NOT UND ticket and, in the same transaction, excess the outward portion only to route VIA GOMSHALL.

If so, what are the chances of actually getting such an excess from a guard or ticket office?

I agree that the expertise of ticket office staff in issuing change of route excess fares can be variable, but I did encounter an excellent clerk at Southampton earlier this week. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of Ashford and little experience of Tonbridge. Hopefully, someone else can report.

I'm sceptical about excesses after being refused the proper price on a change of route excess by two Southeastern guards before (they both asked for the full difference instead of half the difference).

The ticket office software at Southampton calculated the price for a single leg change of route automatically. If you're asked to pay 20p instead of 10p, check that the excess is for one leg only. You'll be given two vouchers for an excess for both legs.

 

[TheJRB]

I think it would be better (and very slightly cheaper) to buy the TONBRIDGE - WOKINGHAM OFF-PEAK DAY RETURN route LONDON NOT UND ticket and, in the same transaction, excess the outward portion only to route VIA GOMSHALL.
I agree that the expertise of ticket office staff in issuing change of route excess fares can be variable, but I did encounter an excellent clerk at Southampton earlier this week. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of Ashford and little experience of Tonbridge. Hopefully, someone else can report.
The ticket office software at Southampton calculated the price for a single leg change of route automatically. If you're asked to pay 20p instead of 10p, check that the excess is for one leg only. You'll be given two vouchers for an excess for both legs.

Sorry for the late reply but thanks for the advice. I'm going to try Ashford ticket office on Tuesday afternoon. That means I'll have four opportunities to get an excess. I'm sure somebody will sell one!

 

[tsr]

It may not be much use to you at present, but I have found that Southern RPIs and Guards seem to be reasonably knowledgeable about various Excesses, for the most part, including knowing any occasions when it's beneficial not to choose that option.

 

[TheJRB]

It may not be much use to you at present, but I have found that Southern RPIs and Guards seem to be reasonably knowledgeable about various Excesses, for the most part, including knowing any occasions when it's beneficial not to choose that option.

Well it's good to know. The trouble is that you get a mixture of Southern and Southeastern guards on the Tonbridge - Redhill line.

 

[yorkie]

The guard on the train from Ashford to Tonbridge said it would be expensive, looked it up and quoted £14.80 each. I found the guard on the Tonbridge to Redhill train (also a Southeastern guard) and he quoted the same figure again but said he would come down and talk it through later in the journey. I pulled up the figures and gave my explanation of why I thought it should be £7.40 each but he maintained that because the difference between a single and a return was only 10p, the full difference was necessary.

They are making this up!

I would suggest you ask Southeastern for clarification as to what instructions are issued to their staff.

See Excess: change of route for the correct procedure.

 

[TheJRB]

They are making this up!

I would suggest you ask Southeastern for clarification as to what instructions are issued to their staff.

See Excess: change of route for the correct procedure.

I thought as much!

We got all of the tickets apart from the excess from Ashford today. The clerk recommended the "London Not Und" ticket and an excess from a guard on the day which is what I will try to do. Still it shouldn't be a problem and if we do get charged 20p per ticket instead of 10p, I'm not going to be bothered honestly.