Asked to Submit Proof of Railcard But Cannot Screenshot It

[567awe]

Hi, I was travelling by a 26-30 railcard discounted ticket at 9:50 when an inspector asked to see my ticket and Railcard. I couldn't produce my Railcard because I hadn't downloaded it to the app however I showed proof of purchase. Since I couldn't produce a railcard I was given a note asking me to submit proof of Railcard in the next 14 days. Now here lies my problems-

I have a digital Railcard purchased via Trainline but I'm not able to screenshot it to submit it to the rail company. How am I expected to submit proof of valid digital Railcard if I can't screenshot it? And I've also read elsewhere that screenshots are not valid proof. Should I get a physical Railcard and send proof of that?

Thanks for reading. Any guidance would be hugely appreciated.

 

[tskir]

1) Yes, this is likely to be flagged, although the member of back office staff reviewing your submission may exercise discretion and let this slide. Prosecution in either case is unlikely, Thameslink will nearly certainly offer a settlement out of court, if it even comes to that.

2) You cannot get a physical railcard if you already have a digital one. I suggest you send them the unique number of the railcard + proof of purchase (if you still have it) + your photographic ID (passport/driving license) + photo of your phone screen showing the railcard (use a friend's phone to take this photo). This should collectively be more than enough to convince them you did have a railcard.

 

[gray1404]

Use another device to take a photo of your Railcard when it's open on the app and send that, and only that.

Worry about the time of use if, and only if, it be becomes an issue.

 

[island]

Should I get a physical Railcard and send proof of that?

26-30 Railcards cannot be issued physically.

 

[skyhigh]

You cannot get a physical railcard if you already have a digital one.

A) this is untrue, there is nothing to stop you having more than one Railcard.
B) you can't get a physical 26-30 Railcard anyway.
C) even if you could they would know you'd purchased it at a later date.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

If you tap the barcode in the bottom left corner of the Railcard, this should open the barcode to full screen.

This full screen barcode should allow itself to be screenshotted. The back office team should then be able to scan this barcode to be able to verify validity.

 

[Watershed]

26-30 Railcards can be used before 10am. However they have a minimum fare of £12 - in other words, the fare won't be discounted below £12. If the fare is less than £12 there is no discount before 10am.

Did you buy a ticket discounted to less than £12?

 

[guilbert]

For me the railcard app doesn't allow screenshots at all, even with just the barcode displayed.

I would just tell them it's a digital railcard and give them the number and ask if that is sufficient - presumably it comes up pretty regularly for them.

 

[jamiearmley]

I'm confused.

You say you bought your Railcard via Trainline - this doesn't need to be downloaded. It just appears when you are signed in to any Trainline account anywhere.

Then you talk about the Railcard app - which is not related to Trainline in any way.

Am I reading this wrong?

In any event, using another phone to take a clear picture should be enough. They will scan the barcode in the picture to confirm validity upon receipt.

 

[Ducatist4]

The T&C's of my railcard very clearly state that if you have a digital one they will not give you (or swap it for) a physical one as well (and vice versa).

 

[Haywain]

The T&C's of my railcard very clearly state that if you have a digital one they will not give you (or swap it for) a physical one as well (and vice versa).

To avoid any misunderstanding, it is not possible for one railcard to be issued both as a digital and physical railcard, or to be changed from one to the other. However, there is nothing to prevent anyone holding more than one railcard at the same time, and in different formats. This could be two Senior Railcards or a Disabled Railcard and a Family & Friends Railcard.

 

[minderbinder]

You say you bought your Railcard via Trainline - this doesn't need to be downloaded. It just appears when you are signed in to any Trainline account anywhere.

The railcard does need to be downloaded to the app (the IOS app, at least) when it is first purchased. Likewise, it needs to be downloaded to the app again if the user has signed out and signed in again.

(I’ve just signed back into my Trainline app to demonstrate what appears on the Railcards page)

 

[Bletchleyite]

To avoid any misunderstanding, it is not possible for one railcard to be issued both as a digital and physical railcard, or to be changed from one to the other. However, there is nothing to prevent anyone holding more than one railcard at the same time, and in different formats. This could be two Senior Railcards or a Disabled Railcard and a Family & Friends Railcard.

I seem to recall the Railcard site won't issue a given Railcard if you already have one of that type, but you can work around that by using a different email address or provider. As one example I have two - a free Trainline issued Network Railcard from my bank, and a regular one too, didn't see any sense in not claiming the free one because my other one was still ongoing, and it makes showing it a bit quicker if the tickets were bought in Trainline, which I use for on the day purchase but not purchase in advance (as they're not getting any fees).

 

[567awe]

26-30 Railcards can be used before 10am. However they have a minimum fare of £12 - in other words, the fare won't be discounted below £12. If the fare is less than £12 there is no discount before 10am.

Did you buy a ticket discounted to less than £12?

I see, no I didn't

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, I bought a ticket discounted to less than £12 because I purchased the post-10 am ticket even though I travelled at 9:50.

Going by previous threads on the forum about people being unable to show railcards that they have - (or more usually said that they have on the train but then find out later it was either expired or they never had one and lied) is that if you have been asked to send a copy of your Railcard in and do not do that it will escalate on the route to prosecution automatically.

You need to avoid that happening, so you need to find a way to provide proof that you have a valid Railcard - methods above as suggested should solve that.

If they then discover that you have been using tickets with the Railcard that weren't in fact valid (ie used before 10am weekdays for travel below the minimum fare for example) they will probably ask you about that separately - but you can cross that bridge if it happens with advice from here. It would require them to investigate your purchase history and match it with scans of the tickets showing use before 10am for example. They may well simply not do this so you might not hear anything more about it.

So for now just send proof of Railcard ownership I would suggest

But going forwards you should not do what you have been doing by using tickets not valid for use before 10am weekdays. Staff ticket scanners are set to alert staff to things like that so eventually you will get found out. If they think you may have done it regularly (intentionally or unintentionally) they may report you for investigation (which is the start of the pathway to prosecution). Alternatively you may get issued with a Penalty Fare - if you do my advice would be to accept the Penalty Fare without argument as it would be a cheaper sanction, and comes with safeguards like rights of Appeal etc which the prosecution route doe not really have.

So - send proof of the Railcard within the 14 day period and hope nothing more comes of it - if it does get the advice from here on what to do about that if you need it.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .It may not necessarily apply to all phones but I can certainly get a screenshot of my Trainline Senior Railcard!

. . .The actual card will have an animated colour changing circle background round the "Double Arrow" symbol but obviously the colour of the screenshot will depend on what was displayed at the second it was captured, but it is a picture that can be sent as proof!

 

[skyhigh]

It may not necessarily apply to all phones but...

It doesn't.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The T&C's of my railcard very clearly state that if you have a digital one they will not give you (or swap it for) a physical one as well (and vice versa).

Of course, the 26-30 railcard is only issued in digital format, as @skyhigh has already pointed out.

Yes, I bought a ticket discounted to less than £12 because I purchased the post-10 am ticket even though I travelled at 9:50.

I would say that this is the bigger problem that the OP is potentially facing, assuming that they can actually satisfactorily resolve the 'not being able to show a valid railcard' issue. The investigating TOC may consider that the OP has been deliberately circumventing the £12 morning peak (Mon-Fri/BHX) minimum fare requirement.

 

[Kilopylae]

photo of your phone screen showing the railcard (use a friend's phone to take this photo)

A short video would be better, as inspectors are told to look for the animated NR logo.

(Also, re: friend's phone, webcam would also work).

 

[tskir]

A) this is untrue, there is nothing to stop you having more than one Railcard.

What I meant was; once you have a digital railcard, it's impossible to convert that specific railcard into a physical form (if it even existed)

 

[Solent&Wessex]

For me the railcard app doesn't allow screenshots at all, even with just the barcode displayed.

I would just tell them it's a digital railcard and give them the number and ask if that is sufficient - presumably it comes up pretty regularly for them.

I have not yet come across any version of the Railcard app which doesn't allow the full screen barcode to be screenshotted. The app should not allow the actual Railcard to be shotted, but it normally allows the full screen barcode to be screenshotted. Which app and phone are you using?

As an aside, my understanding is the back office have no access to the details via the Railcard Number UNLESS it has previously been scanned. Railcards (and tickets) do not populate the database until such time as they are scanned.

 

[island]

Android apps are allowed to disable screenshots.

iOS apps aren't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Android apps are allowed to disable screenshots.

iOS apps aren't.

None of them can stop taking a photo of the screen with another phone or a camera, of course.

 

[Richardr]

None of them can stop taking a photo of the screen with another phone or a camera, of course.

Or indeed a laptop if you have one. I've done it that way in the past.

 

[Kilopylae]

I repeat the advice that a short video is probably a better idea than a photo as RPIs are told to look for the animated logo in the bottom right as proof that it's a real Railcard.

 

[Adam Williams]

As an aside, my understanding is the back office have no access to the details via the Railcard Number UNLESS it has previously been scanned

(Digital) railcards go in a database within 24h of purchase, no scan required.

 

[Somewhere]

I repeat the advice that a short video is probably a better idea than a photo as RPIs are told to look for the animated logo in the bottom right as proof that it's a real Railcard.

But if the OP hasn't been asked for that, why bother?
Obviously an animated logo is there to be shown at the time of an inspection, not retrospectively for a Railcard not shown at time of inspection

 

[Kilopylae]

But if the OP hasn't been asked for that, why bother?

Fair enough. A two-second video doesn't strike me as harder than a photo.

 

[Somewhere]

Fair enough. A two-second video doesn't strike me as harder than a photo.

Why give them more information than what they've asked for?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why give them more information than what they've asked for?

Exactly. If they ask for a photo, send them one. If they want a video, send that.