ASLEF strikes 5th-8th April weekend

[muz379]

This ridiculous proposition that this is the final deal so put it to the members was put to the RMT at both NWR and the TOC's . Yet with further industrial action , and the humiliation over ticket office closures new deals were made without anything having been put to members .

The union (following its democratically agreed constitution, fully supported by its membership) has already rejected it, so the ball has been firmly back in the government’s court for the last year.

Precisely this , if there was a significant pocket of ASLEF members unhappy with the current situation and wanted the deal put to a vote then they could move motions through their branches for a rule change / ballot .

Or could vote against continuing industrial action

Let me guess. The impass will continue until the general election. Then you will all be hoping that a newly elected Labour government will come charging in and instantly offer ASLEF members a sweet deal to end the dispute...

This has been done to death ,but to reiterate I dont think anybody in ASLEF or the wider industry thinks that Labour are going to wave a magic wand and give everyone in the industry a 15% no strings pay rise . I think what is however anticipated is that a change of government may well provide a decent reset in industrial relations and hopefully a new approach that will allow the normal process of negotiation to resume .

I dont just think that its just people in the industry represented by ASLEF who think that either , whilst disputes were settled with the RMT there are still strong feelings about the way the disputes were handled in bad faith by the RDG at the behest of the DFT .

Whom by the way don't lose anything during the dispute.

I thought ASLEF had a part time executive . Either way that is just a lazy cliche that we often see readers of the right wing press parroting out .

 

[43066]

If this is the modern day perception of how unions work, then this is a bad day.

But you aren’t even a member of said union, and the membership is clearly happy with the way things are being conducted. So who are you to tell them any different, and why do you care so much!?

 

[Bantamzen]

But you aren’t even a member of said union, and the membership is clearly happy with the way things are being conducted. So who are you to tell them any different, and why do you care so much!?

I'm not a member of ASLEF..

 

[Val3ntine]

And ASLEF refuse to take it to the members.

Prior to the no strings deal, the RMT also rejected previous conditional offers on behalf of the membership, similar to what ASLEF are doing now. Bit of a weird comparison you seem to be content on continuing to pursue.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm not a member of ASLEF..

Do you know what, stuff it. As a passenger I'm sick and tired of the railways being so utterly crap.

 

[DJP78]

How would taking a ballot on the offer be a backdown? Unions are built on democratic processes that allow their members to have their say on key issues. Yet here we are with union members arguing that they should listen to their leaders, that they pay for, and not have a say.

If this is the modern day perception of how unions work, then this is a bad day.

Contradicting post

You acknowledge the democratic process within ASLEF

Then gaslight them in the same breath lol

ASLEF democracy has spoken loudly. “We back further strike action in rejection of the offer we already know of, having seen the deal, crack on with the dispute”

If the members change their minds, you’ll see that reflected in the ballot results

You again, appear to be struggling to conflate the relationship between members, their voting and the executive committee for the purposes of furthering your own ideology

ASLEF are doing exactly what I pay them to do. This is collective bargaining in motion

Where are the Gov? MIA

As for ‘listening to their leaders’ ….. it’s quite the opposite. ASLEF membership mandate the executive committee. We tell them what to do

 

[12LDA28C]

Do you know what, stuff it. As a passenger I'm sick and tired of the railways being so utterly crap.

I'm sure many members of ASLEF feel the same.

 

[Val3ntine]

ASLEF are doing exactly what I pay them to do.

Plenty of ASLEF members have reiterated this point an exhaustive amount of times now, it’s simply a case of “in one ear”.

 

[Krokodil]

If a rest day agreement is in place then the quota is increased by 1 or 2 per day.

That's very unusual.

 

[DJP78]

Whom by the way don't lose anything during the dispute.

This is classic, anti-union bile, long ago debunked and intended to stoke division.

Of course they don’t lose any money, they are full / part-time employees of ASLEF. When we’re engaged in industrial action, ASLEF reps are hard at work lol

 

[alastair]

Could anyone kindly advise me if XC are likely to be offering any kind of service from/to Banbury on Friday 5th April (full strike day)?
Many thanks.

 

[island]

It can‘t be done online for the same reasons we don’t vote in General Elections online.

That’s a nonsense and you know it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Strike ballots have laws governing how they must be done. You don't need a ballot in order not to strike. An electronic referendum is perfectly legitimate way of accepting or rejecting an offer, it's separate to a strike ballot. RMT have used them.

Indeed. All unions use e-referenda to vote on offers because it's cheap and quick. And as you say there's no statutory requirement for a vote on accepting an offer let alone a stipulation on how it takes place.

 

[newtownmgr]

No, it would be a backdown by the executive. Whom by the way don't lose anything during the dispute.

Wrong again. Also i believe on strike days the executive give up there pay to the strike fund.

You seem to have a very anti union stance. That’s fine & your choice. We are going to continue to disagree so don’t quote my posts as won’t be replying anymore.

 

[baz962]

Wrong again. Also i believe on strike days the executive give up there pay to the strike fund.

You seem to have a very anti union stance. That’s fine & your choice. We are going to continue to disagree so don’t quote my posts as won’t be replying anymore.

What strike fund ?

 

[dk1]

Do you know what, stuff it. As a passenger I'm sick and tired of the railways being so utterly crap.

Come over to the wonderful world of Greater Anglia

 

[newtownmgr]

What strike fund ?

Believe there is a hardship fund that can be applied for if required. Either way I’m led to believe they don’t take there pay on strike days.

 

[dk1]

Believe there is a hardship fund that can be applied for if required. Either way I’m led to believe they don’t take there pay on strike days.

Yes a couple at my depot have got something but not sure if it’s from ASLEF or the local depot welfare.

 

[whoosh]

No, not at all. That would be entirely the government's fault. And it could get worse, they could pull the offer entirely prior to the election and spend the money on giving their mates a last minute tax cut, knowing full well that a Labour government would struggle to balance the books & find the cash for ASLEF's back pay... Just saying like...

How do you make the government sound so reasonable?! I mean, you're cynical enough to say that, but not to believe that the already rejected offer being put to members would just magically move the dispute forward.

 

[Kite159]

Let me guess. The impass will continue until the general election. Then you will all be hoping that a newly elected Labour government will come charging in and instantly offer ASLEF members a sweet deal to end the dispute...

Well here's an alternative ending. Labour get into power, find the the finances of the country are utterly and totally fubar. So they have to focus on getting the nation's finances back on track, and don't have time to worry about a dispute which barely raises any heckles these days.

Oh and just have a think about this. If no settlement is reached before the GE, the pay claim will reach back up to 3 years. That means that an incoming government will have to find 4-5% per year for employees on something like 50k pa (is that a fair average?). If you think about the maths, that's a lot of money to come out of a first budget of a new government.

Especially when all the other parts of the public sector which have been on strike over pay, i.e. the Junior Doctors.

And what will sound better for Labour PR, giving NHS staff a pay rise or giving a pay-rise to train drivers? Especially when the finances of the country are totally buggered.

 

[yorksrob]

Ultimately the pay rise has supposedly already been offered, therefore it has presumably been budgeted for.

All an incoming Government has to do is kick the T&C negotiations to local level and we're back to normal.

Quite easy for a government that's not ideologically committed.

 

[dk1]

Ultimately the pay rise has supposedly already been offered, therefore it has presumably been budgeted for.

All an incoming Government has to do is kick the T&C negotiations to local level and we're back to normal.

Quite easy for a government that's not ideologically committed.

The most sensible post on here I’ve read in the last few days Sword.

 

[yorksrob]

The most sensible post on here I’ve read in the last few days Sword.

I'm rarely accused of posting sensible posts

 

[dk1]

I'm rarely accused of posting sensible posts

My hero

Don’t put yourself down.

 

[JamesT]

Ultimately the pay rise has supposedly already been offered, therefore it has presumably been budgeted for.

All an incoming Government has to do is kick the T&C negotiations to local level and we're back to normal.

Quite easy for a government that's not ideologically committed.

That assumes the T&C changes don’t cost anything. If they’re intended on saving money then the budget only affords the pay rise in tandem with the changes.

 

[Russel]

Do you know what, stuff it. As a passenger I'm sick and tired of the railways being so utterly crap.

I feel the same, the railway, compared to before Covid, is a shambles, totally unreliable and hostile towards passengers.

But, this is nothing to do with the staff, or the unions defending them, it's all down to the Conservative government, which is even more of a shambles, unreliable and hostile.

Sorry, going off topic I know.

 

[whoosh]

I feel the same, the railway, compared to before Covid, is a shambles, totally unreliable and hostile towards passengers.

But, this is nothing to do with the staff, or the unions defending them, it's all down to the Conservative government, which is even more of a shambles, unreliable and hostile.

Sorry, going off topic I know.

Well to be fair, the comment further up by @Bantamzen "I'm sick and tired of the railways being so utterly crap," could be applied to many things in the country at the moment.

So, is the consensus a General Election as soon as possible then?!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Do you know what, stuff it. As a passenger I'm sick and tired of the railways being so utterly crap.

But visiting this site, you already know the reasons why. To reinforce it though you might remember a few years ago a rather serious global epidemic which throttled the world. It also buggered the railways to the extent that erstwhile PM John Major's model of rail privatisation was no longer tenable, resulting in franchising being ditched. The passenger railway is now run by DfT with TOCs acting in a puppet role.

So whatever beef you have about the passenger journey needs directing to the DfT who are funded by the treasury. The rail unions are seeking the best combination of workers T&Cs and salaries for their members, which differ widely from TOC to TOC. If the DfT are playing fast and loose with traincrew salaries and T&Cs, there needs to be someone to stand over it, but just consider the Clapham junction disaster and the subsequent recommendation by Anthony Hidden QC. They were to make the railway industry a safer place for the passenger so, would you really want to potentially weaken those recommendations and increase risks ?

Fact - most passenger companies do not have enough crew to run their scheduled services - hence cancellations. you need to be interpreting why the companies don't have enough crew to deliver the timetabled service and act on that, rather than criticising the trade unions for standing against the weakening of safety on the railways. I have been a railway employee for 46 years and I don't approve of stuff like split shifts.

In my view the network is clogged up with too many small trains which each need at least a driver on the front. It is hugely less expensive to run half the number of trains using the same amount of rolling stock - for two reasons. Half the number of drivers required, and half the number of timetable paths required, but this also brings more resilience to the timetable where late running occurs. The downside of course is the contracted railway where it is sometimes difficult to accommodate longer trains.

 

[newtownmgr]

That assumes the T&C changes don’t cost anything. If they’re intended on saving money then the budget only affords the pay rise in tandem with the changes.

Many of the T&C changes won’t actually bring about savings or at the least it will be negligible savings,in fact some will increase costs as they will
Require more staff ultimately (Sundays part of the working week).
A lot of the changes are unpalatable for the TOC’s as they know what the affects will be.

 

[Ianigsy]

So whatever beef you have about the passenger journey needs directing to the DfT who are funded by the treasury.

And I think this is where the heart of the matter lies. The Treasury mentality is to tell departments “this is how much you can have” rather than going out and proactively finding the money to do things. Ministers don’t generally have the time or the inclination to look critically at the information they’re presented with by civil servants and the timescales involved in doing anything in the railway are such that the minister making the decision won’t be in post and may even be in opposition by the time their initiatives bear fruit.