Aslef strikes and OT ban called…

[Bald Rick]

Travel will still be available between London and Birmingham on that day via other operators though.

A long way round though - and I wouldnt trust GWR on that day either.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Exactly. GWR to Reading or Oxford and change onto XC. So still entirely possible to travel between London and Birmingham, probably in a little over 2 hours with a quick connection.

That might be a better routing than my 222 plans especially if I can get a Reading Elizabeth Line train from my accommodation rather than hoof to St Pancras and changing at Derby, although as Lichfield is out if the equation I'm aiming for Burton-on-Trent instead,

 

[12LDA28C]

A long way round though - and I wouldnt trust GWR on that day either.

Anyone who needs to travel by train that day will find a way, long way round or not.

 

[Bald Rick]

Anyone who needs to travel by train that day will find a way, long way round or not.

Given there is an overtime ban too, I strongly suspect that day is going to be heavily disrupted.

 

[GalaxyDog]

Classic whataboutery. Why not comment on anyone else who has had a payrise? Nurses, for example.

Go on - show us the evidence that that is the case. Because frankly I don't believe you, as TOC pay for all staff is controlled by DfT/Treasury.

No, not whataboutery at all. Why the hell would I want to compare against say nurses [or teachers, or doctors, or anyone else striking]?
It's not the aforementioned who are pulling the hypocritical act of wagging their finger at ground railway workers [ticket offices, guards, stations, drivers, the lot] and tutting that said workers can't get sorely needed pay rises [inflation has slowed down, but those previous rises are still built in now...] without sacrificing terms and conditions that make the job bearable/easier, while in turn awarding themselves payrises without a second thought. Whereas it is MPs i.e. government who run the DfT and TOC directors who have trousered large rises, looking at them numerically or by percentage.

As for the evidence - welp, looks like someone has already provided one example, from XC. But as you asked so nicely.....The example I was thinking of was Abellio UK [now Transport UK]'s Dominic Booth who in 2021 alone trousered a 23% rise. https://www.magzter.com/stories/newspaper/The-Sunday-Mirror/23-PAY-RISE-FOR-ABELLIO-RAIL-BOSS
Given salaries for rail workers had been frozen since 2020, this was a major slap in the face. So, there we are. That's why we all ended up in this dispute in the first place.

Because in order to unlock anything near a pay rise to help with inflation, guards drivers, and station staff etc's were being demanded to give up their terms and conditions whereas MPs and CEOs didn't.

 

[newtownmgr]

I’m surprised given Steve Montgomery’s connection with both Avanti & the RDG that they haven’t tried to run some sort of service. They have been used along with LNER to cheerlead some of the changes that the dft etc want to impose.

 

[dk1]

I’m surprised given Steve Montgomery’s connection with both Avanti & the RDG that they haven’t tried to run some sort of service. They have been used along with LNER to cheerlead some of the changes that the dft etc want to impose.

I dont think Avanti have any agreement where Driver Managers can work trains alone. I thought that was why nothing operated at this franchise on strike days.

 

[whoosh]

Whilst it is not surprising on a forum populated by rail insiders and enthusiasts - and I take no sides in this particular debate - that the prevailing view is that government should settle the dispute by giving the union what they want - there is another argument around an understanding that changes and a level of consolidation of T&Cs are required for the overall good of the industry and all stakeholders and a reasoned discussion to negotiate a middle ground is necessary and desirable.

It's probably the prevailing view because it's perfectly reasonable for employees, through their union, to be able to negotiate pay and any changes to terms and conditions, with their actual employer.

The Department for Transport wanted Sundays in the working week introduced during the franchise period for Drivers at East Midlands Trains back in 2016. The negotiation was between the TOC and the union, so this can be done without issue.

The current elongated dispute is because the government want a strike it can be seen to be heroes over solving with their Minimum Service Bill. So there will be more disruption until that happens.
Politically, the RMT and the ticket office closure plan have done their job in prolonging the dispute, but ASLEF members are still needed for the politicians to point at and call "greedy" and to look like they are doing everyone a favour when a minimum service has to be provided. Just remember the entire year of 2022 that went by with ASLEF being told by all the TOCs they are in dispute with, that they couldn't talk about pay because the DfT wouldn't let them.

 

[newtownmgr]

I dont think Avanti have any agreement where Driver Managers can work trains alone. I thought that was why nothing operated at this franchise on strike days.

Yeah like that on a few franchises thankfully. I was just stating that given some of the things that have been imposed on the 2 franchises I’m surprised they haven’t tried to force it through.
The issue with using Driver Managers to drive is there is no back up/support to deal with safety of the line incidents or fatalities if they are all out driving as 2nd line managers (area driver managers upwards) don’t in many cases have the necessary skills,PTS etc to deal with these circumstances. Certainly the case where i work.

 

[dk1]

Yeah like that on a few franchises thankfully. I was just stating that given some of the things that have been imposed on the 2 franchises I’m surprised they haven’t tried to force it through.
The issue with using Driver Managers to drive is there is no back up/support to deal with safety of the line incidents or fatalities if they are all out driving as 2nd line managers (area driver managers upwards) don’t in many cases have the necessary skills,PTS etc to deal with these circumstances. Certainly the case where i work.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Can we realistically expect most stuff to operate on the 4th?

 

[800 Driver]

Can we realistically expect most stuff to operate on the 4th?

I'd avoid early morning travel on the 4th

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'd avoid early morning travel on the 4th

Wouldn't be until teatime anyway.

 

[Bald Rick]

I dont think Avanti have any agreement where Driver Managers can work trains alone. I thought that was why nothing operated at this franchise on strike days.

I also wonder about this. What would happen if DMs did drive on strike days? (assuming fully competent with appropriate support proceeses in place)

 

[dk1]

I also wonder about this. What would happen if DMs did drive on strike days? (assuming fully competent with appropriate support proceeses in place)

Why would they? If it’s not official and not an agreed process then it wouldn’t happen.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Does anyone know what the ticket acceptance situation will be? Will tickets dated any day that week be valid at anytime that week? As people might need to use different operators to make connections. Hope that makes sense.

I have a split ticket from Manchester to London using Avanti on Friday 8th December. However, I am initially travelling from Chorley to Manchester using my annual season ticket. Would it be possible for me to travel on Thursday using Avanti instead otherwise I have no way of getting to Manchester to make the train on Friday.

So, CRL to MAN using annual season ticket, MCR to STA off peak return and STA to EUS advanced single.

What about 125 Chorley to Bolton, and 36/37 to Picc Gardens?

 

[Bald Rick]

Why would they?

To run a service for passengers?

If it’s not official and not an agreed process then it wouldn’t happen.

When I talk to people not in the rail industry about the strikes, and say that there are managers who are qualified to drive, but can’t for some (but only some) companies because there is no agreement with the drivers union to do so… well you can imagine the looks and comments I get.

 

[Travelmonkey]

All in all it's farce, ebven with "minimum service" you can still get alot of dsruption from organic issues that crop up anyway (failures of mecchinary or Trespass ect) last Aslef Strike day I needed to travel I had to use local buses much of the way, thankfully at the time I had a ENCT card but it was still rather troublesome from Watford Junction to Leicster via Luton MK & Northampton by the time I reached a neighbouring local town to home I was glad of my partner to come pick me up, at least this time *touch wood* I should be able to get trains most of the way, I do hope that the issues are sorted soon, be intresting to see how this picemeal TOC group by TOC group does vs the all out we have seen before,

 

[dk1]

To run a service for passengers?




When I talk to people not in the rail industry about the strikes, and say that there are managers who are qualified to drive, but can’t for some (but only some) companies because there is no agreement with the drivers union to do so… well you can imagine the looks and comments I get.

Neither replies make any common sense to me but of course they do to anybody who doesn’t agree with them.

 

[Wolfie]

To run a service for passengers?

When I talk to people not in the rail industry about the strikes, and say that there are managers who are qualified to drive, but can’t for some (but only some) companies because there is no agreement with the drivers union to do so… well you can imagine the looks and comments I get.

Agreements need to be honoured in the round. If an employer was to tear up one aspect of an agreement why should the union be expected to honour the rest of it?

 

[dk1]

Agreements need to be honoured in the round. If an employer was to tear up one aspect of an agreement why should the union be expected to honour the rest of it?

Spot on.

 

[Bald Rick]

Agreements need to be honoured in the round. If an employer was to tear up one aspect of an agreement why should the union be expected to honour the rest of it?

I understood that in some cases its not that there is an agreement that managers wont drive trains, but there is no agreement that they can. If there’s no agreement, how can it be torn up?

 

[dk1]

In the TOCs that do allow DMs to drive trains they often are uncomfortable with it in relation to their ex-footplate colleagues who they now manage. They are strict to obey their agreed contract rules and are not going to go over or above them.

 

[Wolfie]

I understood that in some cases its not that there is an agreement that managers wont drive trains, but there is no agreement that they can. If there’s no agreement, how can it be torn up?

There will be an agreement with ASLEF though. If this is outside that....

In the TOCs that do allow DMs to drive trains they often are uncomfortable with it in relation to their ex-footplate colleagues who they now manage. They are strict to obey their agreed contract rules and are not going to go over or above them.

That is understandable. Treat their new staff as they wished to have been treated when in the same role.

 

[startingaparty]

What about 125 Chorley to Bolton, and 36/37 to Picc Gardens?

It's okay now. Avanti have said people with tickets dated during the strike days can travel on any day so I'm going to go on Thursday night instead.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Any Chiltern peeps know what the morning BMO-MYB service will look like on the 9th? Already have super offpeak tickets purchased but would rather just drive than be stood waiting for hours or crammed in like sardines.

 

[Tractor2018]

I dont think Avanti have any agreement where Driver Managers can work trains alone.

After tomorrow they might not have a RDW agreement with drivers either. Their current offer has been given very short shrift.

 

[infobleep]

I wonder why they chose the week before the new timetable, rather than the week of the new timetable?

 

[Jamesrob637]

TPE have tweeted that they're not selling (many) Advances on the 4th, which is the day I wanted to travel. That's BS because there's no strike that day on any TOC, never mind them. Theirs isn't until the 8th, so I could possibly just understand a lack of Advances on the 7th particularly late and the 9th particularly early.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Any Chiltern peeps know what the morning BMO-MYB service will look like on the 9th? Already have super offpeak tickets purchased but would rather just drive than be stood waiting for hours or crammed in like sardines.

Chiltern's strike page says 1tph between Marylebone and Birmingham, but journey planners haven't been updated with the revised timetable yet.