Attitude of neighbouring TOCs to an unreliable one?

[43066]

The 0700 Sheffield to St Pancras states ‘LNER tickets not valid’ this morning, despite LNER trains only running south as far as Peterborough. Not sure about later trains.

That’s because you’re supposed to travel on LNER to Peterborough, take the rail replacement coach to Bedford, and then join an EMR Connect or Thameslink service. That’s the case all day today.

 

[JOnTrack]

I think EMR's cancelled/late running Norwich services are starting to grate on Greater Anglia (and to a lesser extent Cross Country's Stansted Airport cancellations - due partly to removing driver route knowledge at a depot)

I didn't know that they changed driver route knowledge for crosscountry drivers, do you have any more info on that?
I know there was a rumour at one point that XC were at risk of losing their Stansted route and were told to up their game in regards to reliability!
I've accepted their tickets when needed, but made a point of letting passengers know pre departure to check their tickets, even going so far as to check tickets before boarding...

Never known a delayed crosscountry to get to the airport, they've always been terminated early at Cambridge in my experience (if they were even booked to run that far!).

I’ve not noticed that. It’s always been that way.

The amount of times I've had to buzz up the driver and let them know we're following a delayed East Mids back to Ely (if we don't watch it come in while we're in Ely and leave in front of us at Ely) is impressive. Same old, think we're all used to it by now.

 

[LowLevel]

I didn't know that they changed driver route knowledge for crosscountry drivers, do you have any more info on that?
I know there was a rumour at one point that XC were at risk of losing their Stansted route and were told to up their game in regards to reliability!
I've accepted their tickets when needed, but made a point of letting passengers know pre departure to check their tickets, even going so far as to check tickets before boarding...

Never known a delayed crosscountry to get to the airport, they've always been terminated early at Cambridge in my experience (if they were even booked to run that far!).

The amount of times I've had to buzz up the driver and let them know we're following a delayed East Mids back to Ely (if we don't watch it come in while we're in Ely and leave in front of us at Ely) is impressive. Same old, think we're all used to it by now.

New St drivers no longer go to Stansted Airport, they get off at Cambridge.

The East Mids unfortunately is usually within a minute or two of time until it hits Grantham where the East Coast regulating fun starts - whether it's waiting for the delayed westbound train at Nottingham Branch Junction with that having been messed up between Norwich and Peterborough, or being held for late running LNERs at Grantham - more than 5 or 6 minutes delay leaving Grantham and you get held for the northbound trains at Peterborough for Edinburgh and Leeds and then you're behind your Ipswich all the way to Ely to lose your path and have probable part cancellations.

Norwich used to be a lovely run but over the last few years it's become an absolute nightmare with crappy infrastructure and regulating trashing the service, not helped by the interregional freights appearing at random sometimes hours late and then being further delayed as they crawl through the many and various speed restrictions.

For a crucial national artery Peterborough to Ely is an absolute horror show of a stretch of railway.

 

[Failed Unit]

I do sometimes feel for the passengers who are getting on below the situation, as EMR passengers at Derby and Liecester are probably finding out today. They have booked an AP ticket and have a seat reservation. They go for thier seat to find someone who got on a Sheffield sitting in it. They ask them to move but they view they are entitled to it because thier train was cancelled.

I had it a lot when Hull Trains were operating the class 180s. The Hull Trains passenger thought they had more right to the seat on the LNER train then the LNER passenger. LNER then needed to pay compensation to thier own passenger for not honouring thier reserved seat, because they helped out HT. I think the LNER crew were getting pretty sick of it, as they were not only taking flak from HT passengers, but also there own.

I am sure EMR are feeling that pain today when a loyal customer wanting to do say Derby - London is seriously "turfed out" thier seat by an LNER passenger.

I am not sure if it is a combination of things that have changed that have made the MML worse at assisting. During a closure of the WCML one I did St Pancras - Manchester via Sheffield. The HST was full and standing but everyone got on. The 158 between Sheffield and Manchester was cosy but I am not aware of anyone left behind. However as you can tell by the train I mention, this was a while ago so there were probably less passengers. MML may not be suffering as badly now if Avanti (and TPE) were running a dependable service. I am sure if 3tph were running to Manchester some Leeds and York passengers may consider that way.

 

[dk1]

The amount of times I've had to buzz up the driver and let them know we're following a delayed East Mids back to Ely (if we don't watch it come in while we're in Ely and leave in front of us at Ely) is impressive. Same old, think we're all used to it by now.

Yeah it's always been that way. I've sat at the double blocking signal protecting Ely N Jnc and the East Mids is on way to Ely and waited 8min for it to pass me again

 

[Horizon22]

Interesting thread this one!

One thing that jumps out at me though is that ‘The Railway’ (TOCs) at times of disruption is not putting the customer first…

Surely if you have a ticket from A-B and if the line is blocked, either through disruption and even pre-planned engineering works, customers should be able to travel A-B via C to get to their destination even if using another TOC.

Ticket acceptance shouldn’t have to be pre-agreed.

Heaven forbid it’s not the customers fault!

I guess a handful of customers may abuse it at times, but in the overall bigger picture the industry needs to be more customer focused!

It depends. If there is an activation of CSL (Customer Service Level) 2, this is basically a flag to other operators to say "help, we're in serious disruption!" and should automatically trigger ticket acceptance via reasonable routes. There can be mitigating circumstances (e.g limited capacity or mutual disruption) for the other TOCs but normally it is just accepted or its mutual ticket acceptance.

"Attitudes" don't really come into it, it's just what has to happen to keep the show moving. It's worse in some parts of the country than the other and for different (e.g. intercity) operators.

 

[Class 170101]

Yeah it's always been that way. I've sat at the double blocking signal protecting Ely N Jnc and the East Mids is on way to Ely and waited 8min for it to pass me again

Thats poor regulation that is.

 

[dk1]

Thats poor regulation that is.

Often under instructions from above when challenged.

 

[yorkie]

EMR and LNER want people to get LNER to Peterborough and then get EMR/TL into London so not all London-Sheffield/Nottingham services are rammed (although that is happening).

LNER's website is pushing people to travel via Leicester; LNER has a lot of adverts encouraging people to "book direct", rather than through websites such as ours, which do offer the bus option.

See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tes-becoming-overwhelmed.263066/#post-6647249

While our website is offering itineraries via Peterborough, and at cheaper fares than via Leicester, LNER don't appear to want people to book with us, and want people to book through their own site and travel via Leicester.

 

[Sealink]

I can't remember the TOCs involved as it was years ago but after an awful journey on one to connect with the other the guard said "Don't worry, you're with (TOC) now".

Just typing this reminded me one of them was First Great Western when Aliison Forster was in charge

EDIT: it was FGW and South Western Trains. Heaven knows what journey I was making

 

[Krokodil]

I was reminded of this thread this afternoon after watching a TfW Conductor get hassle from passengers because their two-car train was rammed. For the fourth time in five days Avanti had cancelled the same service. The Conductor had the patience of a saint.

By contrast, Avanti (as per Virgin before them) can be absolutely ruthless with displaced passengers.

 

[LBMPSB]

By contrast, Avanti (as per Virgin before them) can be absolutely ruthless with displaced passengers.

I think it is standard practice amongst most TOCs now. Just interested in performance figures. Unfortunately that is what you get from private companies. They aren't in it to provide a public service, they are there to get a return for their investors.