ATW passanger charter

[andywandy]

Hi guys

Yesterday I was heavily delayed by ATW on a journey with my girlfriend between st helens junction and Bangor Gwynedd.

I set off at 8: 48, arrived at earlestown at 8 53. I then got on the earlestown train to chester and arrived at 21 57.

I boarded the ATW train that was due to depart at 22 04, we sat on the train for around 25 minutes (ish) until they told us the train would not depart due to a fatality at (i think) Shotton.

In the end a taxi was arranged and I got to bangor at around 2 am. The taxi driver was slow and could not find the station even with directions!

I was due to arrive in Bangor at 23 21. this makes me almost 3 hours late!

The man at chester said a refund would not be honoured as it was otuside of the railways control.. is it still worth sending off? surely they will pay out for such a lengthy delay.

Also can i send off both my girlfriend and my tickets at the same time, or should they be separate applications?

Will they refund the whole ticket amount (around 55 pounds) as it was a lengthy delay.

Best Wishes,

Andy

 

[bb21]

Yes, matters outside the control of the railway industry would be excluded. ATW's Passenger Charter can be found here.

If you feel that compensation should be due, there is nothing to lose by writing to them and enquiring.

 

[andywandy]

Yes, matters outside the control of the railway industry would be excluded. ATW's Passenger Charter can be found here.

If you feel that compensation should be due, there is nothing to lose by writing to them and enquiring.

could I argue the following point?

surely if they had better security in place, a fatality would not occur, therefore the issue is not outside of the railway.

 

[bb21]

could I argue the following point?

surely if they had better security in place, a fatality would not occur, therefore the issue is not outside of the railway.

I could be wrong but I think whether a fatality is classed as within the control of the railway industry depends on a number of factors. Without knowing what happened I am unable to say with any certainty.

 

[andywandy]

I could be wrong but I think whether a fatality is classed as within the control of the railway industry depends on a number of factors. Without knowing what happened I am unable to say with any certainty.

fair enough, I'm just pretty miffed because i spent like 55 quid to arrive in Bangor almost 3 hours late, meaning I missed class and had a taxi driver who got lost to the point another passenger got out of the taxi early and just walked home.

There aren't many details on what happened that I can find, only news articles which may be fairly unreliable.

 

[6Gman]

could I argue the following point?

surely if they had better security in place, a fatality would not occur, therefore the issue is not outside of the railway.

You could advance that argument, but I can't see it getting you very far.

 

[Chew Chew]

See Delay Repay, by all means claim when a train has broken down or there is an issue with the signals or suchlike.

But when it is due to a fatality, really?

 

[Bellbell]

could I argue the following point?

surely if they had better security in place, a fatality would not occur, therefore the issue is not outside of the railway.

You could try but I can imagine the response you'd get from whoever received that argument.

I can completely see how annoying it is to arrive so late, particularly at that time of day, but just to hammer things home, someone was so distressed at the thought of living that they chose to end their life under a train. Could you not consider just writing off the delay as one of those things in life that happen, rather than trying to apportion blame?

 

[andywandy]

You could try but I can imagine the response you'd get from whoever received that argument.

I can completely see how annoying it is to arrive so late, particularly at that time of day, but just to hammer things home, someone was so distressed at the thought of living that they chose to end their life under a train. Could you not consider just writing off the delay as one of those things in life that happen, rather than trying to apportion blame?

It may not have been deliberate, he/she may have fallen on to the track. Also whilst I agree it was upsetting I missed 3 hours of class for it, which will lose me some marks on an attendance based class.

 

[najaB]

Also whilst I agree it was upsetting I missed 3 hours of class for it, which will lose me some marks on an attendance based class.

I knew that they had added cash/cheque to the RTV option but wasn't aware that course marks were now available as compensation.

 

[andywandy]

I knew that they had added cash/cheque to the RTV option but wasn't aware that course marks were now available as compensation.

no but if ATW acknowledge and pay out (thus admitting fault) my uni will credit my attendance based marks (in theory) however unless they do I have no proof.

 

[Chew Chew]

no but if ATW acknowledge and pay out (thus admitting fault) my uni will credit my attendance based marks (in theory) however unless they do I have no proof.

When did you miss the class?

Do universities have classes at half 11 at night?

 

[island]

I rather doubt you had classes scheduled at midnight.

That notwithstanding, if you believe a letter from Arriva Trains Wales stating that you were on such and such a train which was delayed by 3 hours would be useful to you somehow, I'm sure that can be arranged independently of any compensation, to which I agree you are not entitled as ATW does not offer the Delay-Repay scheme which gives compensation irrespective of the cause of a delay.

 

[najaB]

no but if ATW acknowledge and pay out (thus admitting fault) my uni will credit my attendance based marks (in theory) however unless they do I have no proof.

Acknowledging the delay and paying out aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[Clip]

no but if ATW acknowledge and pay out (thus admitting fault) my uni will credit my attendance based marks (in theory) however unless they do I have no proof.

You will have proof if you know what times you were travelling as you seem to have started off in the morning but finished your journey late at night. So how it too you over 12 hours to do this journey I do not know and I do not know what class you wouldve missed so late at night.

However, that aside I am sure you cn get confirmation from ATW for whatever time you were delayed to ensure you get your credit.

 

[andywandy]

I rather doubt you had classes scheduled at midnight.

That notwithstanding, if you believe a letter from Arriva Trains Wales stating that you were on such and such a train which was delayed by 3 hours would be useful to you somehow, I'm sure that can be arranged independently of any compensation, to which I agree you are not entitled as ATW does not offer the Delay-Repay scheme which gives compensation irrespective of the cause of a delay.

I had class 9-12 am, however arriving at gone 2 and my routine being disrupted I was unable to attend the early classes.

I'm not too bothered about a monetary refund (although it would be nice) however losing a chunk of my uni grades seems really harsh.

 

[Bellbell]

It may not have been deliberate, he/she may have fallen on to the track. Also whilst I agree it was upsetting I missed 3 hours of class for it, which will lose me some marks on an attendance based class.

Statistically it's overwhelmingly likely to have been deliberate although you are correct that it's possible it wasn't. If the class was so important perhaps you could have gone in tired, just to get the attendance marks? Alternatively, you've said you will get credited the marks if ATW admit fault. Do you actually mean that, or do you just need to provide some evidence of the delay? It should be very easy to obtain evidence of the disruption.

This is a very recent event and I don't want to cause upset to the family of the deceased, however unlikely they are to read this, so I'm holding off on some of what I want to post but think about the logical extensions/conclusions to your desire to find someone to blame.

 

[Chew Chew]

I had class 9-12 am, however arriving at gone 2 and my routine being disrupted I was unable to attend the early classes.

I'm not too bothered about a monetary refund (although it would be nice) however losing a chunk of my uni grades seems really harsh.

If you were that worried about losing uni grades you should have got out of your bed and went to class.

 

[najaB]

I'm not too bothered about a monetary refund (although it would be nice) however losing a chunk of my uni grades seems really harsh.

Most TOCs are more than willing to provide a letter confirming that there was a delay their train service. I have no reason to believe that ATW are an exception.

 

[andywandy]

Most TOCs are more than willing to provide a letter confirming that there was a delay their train service. I have no reason to believe that ATW are an exception.

I need proof I was on the service, not just proof a train was delayed. A letter from ATW would prove this. How do I apply for one? do I just send off my train tickets and ask them for just a letter and no rail vouchers?

 

[Bellbell]

I had class 9-12 am, however arriving at gone 2 and my routine being disrupted I was unable to attend the early classes.

I'm not too bothered about a monetary refund (although it would be nice) however losing a chunk of my uni grades seems really harsh.

You only mentioned the money in your OP, nothing about the marks.

I don't know what would be contained in a letter confirming a delay but ATW can't positively state that you, Mr J Bloggs, DOB 01/01/1995 were on the XX.XX departure, headcode XXXX because they don't check ID. What's the burden of proof on you from your university exactly?

 

[DaleCooper]

I need proof I was on the service, not just proof a train was delayed. A letter from ATW would prove this. How do I apply for one? do I just send off my train tickets and ask them for just a letter and no rail vouchers?

How can ATW know you were actually on that particular train?

 

[najaB]

How can ATW know you were actually on that particular train?

More to the point, the letter that accompanies a passenger charter compensation payment isn't actually proof that you were on a particular service, just that you claimed to have been.

 

[DaleCooper]

I need proof I was on the service, not just proof a train was delayed. A letter from ATW would prove this. How do I apply for one? do I just send off my train tickets and ask them for just a letter and no rail vouchers?

I would imagine the college would tell you that 7 hours was sufficient time to get from the station to the college - even for a student.

 

[Llanigraham]

Already answered

 

[6Gman]

I would imagine the college would tell you that 7 hours was sufficient time to get from the station to the college - even for a student.

Ouch!

Seriously, if these classes were so important perhaps travelling so late on the night before wasn't terribly wise?

 

[Paule23]

I had class 9-12 am, however arriving at gone 2 and my routine being disrupted I was unable to attend the early classes.



I'm not too bothered about a monetary refund (although it would be nice) however losing a chunk of my uni grades seems really harsh.

Try getting away with that when you are I'm paid employment.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Try getting away with that when you are I'm paid employment.

Indeed, all sympathy gone.

 

[bb21]

I would imagine the college would tell you that 7 hours was sufficient time to get from the station to the college - even for a student.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head imo.

Unfortunately OP, I doubt your institution would accept a delay the previous night as mitigating circumstances. There is no harm trying, but I seriously doubt it. How do I know? Our department would certainly reject such a claim..

As for the delay compensation, go ahead if that is what you decide. None of us is really in a position to judge. Some people feel it is morally corrupt to claim in these circumstances but others argue differently. There is no right or wrong.

I doubt ATW will be able to provide a statement confirming your presence on any particular train, for the reasons others gave.

 

[Fare-Cop]

More to the point, the letter that accompanies a passenger charter compensation payment isn't actually proof that you were on a particular service, just that you claimed to have been.

Exactly so..........and many are tempted to make false claims because of this, but the TOCs prosecutors are fully aware of that and along with BTP are actively pursuing many...........

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/fine_for...ayed_train_claims_to_greater_anglia_1_4374250

In this case the fine may be considered to be relatively low, but when prosecution costs and victim surcharges are added plus the criminal conviction.......