Australia: The Ghan or Indian Pacific

[Mojo]

If you could only do one of these two Australian railway journeys, which would it be? I was only planning on doing the journey to Adelaide, so time-wise it is not an issue, with spending two nights on either service?

I had initially thought about doing The Ghan, because it was the only one I'd heard of, but having looked into it people have said a lot of good things about the Indian Pacific. The Indian Pacific is slightly cheaper, but is the quality of the rolling stock and the scenery the same? I was thinking of going Gold service (single cabin). I'm also not too fussed about going to Darwin or Perth, but it looks like there's more to do in Perth rather than being a mere stopover location.

 

[Springs Branch]

I haven't done either of the train trips, but am very familiar with Australia.

To the "either/or" question, I would definitely say The Ghan.

- The operator is the same for both trains, Great Southern Rail, a subsidary of (ahem) Serco, using pretty much the same rolling stock & on-board crews, albeit with interchangable Ghan and I-P name boards on the sides.

- With The Ghan you are on the train for three days and two nights (assuming you do the full trip). There are long stops during daytime in Katherine and Alice Springs in the Northern Territory for off-train excursions to see the local sites. Both places are scenic, quite different and well worth seeing (tropical north plus desert Red Centre). Most of the boring bits of the journey are done overnight.

- The Indian-Pacific can be considered as two trips, broken in Adelaide. You can certainly do the full Indian ocean to Pacific ocean journey. But the train breaks its journey in Adelaide for half a day in both directions, and a worthwhile trip can also be done starting or finishing in Adelaide.

- Sydney to Adelaide or v.v. takes about 24 hrs, departing either city around the middle part of the day. There's around a 2-hour break in Broken Hill (interesting mining town in the desert), but that's the only excursion on this leg.

- The Adelaide to Perth or v.v. leg requires 2 nights and the best part of 3 days on the train. Most of this is crossing remote and uninhabited desert (albeit on a busy transport corridor with regular mile-long freight trains in either direction), the rest across miles and miles of wheat-growing praire-type country.
I have heard people say they are impressed by the vastness and remoteness, but after many hours & days of the same, it gets pretty boring. Depends if you want to spend the time reading, boozing in the Club Car, just getting a sense of achievement crossing the continent by land or whether you expect to see interesting scenery along the way as to how well you might tolerate this.
I think there are stops at Kalgoorlie (another mining town in the desert, gold this time) and at Cook (a remote loop in the middle of nowhere, where the train stops to take on fuel and water - the I-P crew keep you on a tight leash here - no wandering off into the desert, and no going up front to look at the locos (Health & Safety, you know).

In summary, my view is:-
1) The Ghan. Long enough for a bit of an epic trip, but not enough to drive you bonkers with boredom. Very good variety of scenery along the way & schedule well timed to see it.
2) Indian-Pacific Adelaide/Perth. A bit long for my taste, given the lack of variety of things to see & do along the way. Fine if you particularly want to do the trip as an achievement, or spend three days in relative comfort but totally cut off from the rest of the world.
3) Indian-Pacific Adelaide/Sydney. Not bad as an overnight experience. Most of the boring desert stuff passes through the night, reasonably pleasant scenery either end of the journey during daylight. But Gold Class fare is pretty expensive for an overnight trip on a sleeper train with evening meal & breakfast thrown in.
4) Indian-Pacific all the way through Perth/Sydney. You need to really like trains, or be writing a book!

The Red Class seating coaches are apparently not recommended. These are sealed off from the Gold Class part of the train and the ambience probably gets a bit rugged with the same people sitting in the same seat for several days and nights.
I think Red Class exists as an experience for the Sven from Sveden backpackers (an experience they don't try twice), and maybe some obligation placed on GSR by the AU Government to provide vaguely affordable transportation across the country.

If I had to recommend a pleasant city for a tourist stopover at the beginning or end, I'd say Adelaide over either Darwin or Perth (but I may be biased).

 

[ian959]

Much of what Springs Branch says is correct, the actual rolling stock used is pretty much the same on both trains. Which is better depends upon where you are starting your journey and whether you are going to the end of the line.

For a quick taste of the experience, Sydney to Adelaide on the Indian Pacific is the best. The whole trip on the Indian Pacific is fascinating and the scenery is very interesting, but I can understand some people would find it monotonous across the Nullarbor. The trip between Sydney and Adelaide gets you the best of the variety on the trip.

The Ghan is probably more interesting doing the section from Alice Springs to Darwin in my opinion but if Adelaide is your destination then Alice Springs to Adelaide whilst interesting is certainly a little more boring in places.

If you were making a decision upon where you were to end up - Darwin or Perth - then as much as I like Darwin, I would have to say Perth offers more interesting things to see being a much bigger city. I might be biased though
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But the train breaks its journey in Adelaide for half a day in both directions

Not quite true - the break is about 3 hours 30 minutes westbound and 3 hours eastbound

 

[fowler9]

What is the landscape like? I would also love to do one of those journies after finding the Atacama desert fascinating. What concerns me is that Australia is pretty flat compared to the Atacama.

 

[Mojo]

Thanks for the replies guys. The only places I really wanted to visit are Melbourne and Sydney. So my intention was to fly from Singapore to either Darwin or Perth (there's just less than an hour in it, so I don't mind which), then take the train to Adelaide and then fly to Melbourne and on to Sydney. Again, I'm not too fussed which way round I see Sydney and Melbourne, so wouldn't object to taking the train all the way to Sydney.

 

[Mikey C]

I did the Ghan from Adelaide to Alice back in 2006. Alice itself is a great base to do tours of Uluru (Ayer's Rock) and the area.The actual train trip itself wasn't very exciting though, as the scenery was endless scrubby dessert.

The train from Sydney to Canberra was more exciting though as it was hauled by an XPT, the Aussie cousin of our Class 43 HST

 

[fowler9]

Thanks for the replies guys. The only places I really wanted to visit are Melbourne and Sydney. So my intention was to fly from Singapore to either Darwin or Perth (there's just less than an hour in it, so I don't mind which), then take the train to Adelaide and then fly to Melbourne and on to Sydney. Again, I'm not too fussed which way round I see Sydney and Melbourne, so wouldn't object to taking the train all the way to Sydney.

I travelled Melbourne to Sydney on the Greyhound via Canberra. Could have gone direct but wanted to see Canberra, in retrospect I could have lived without seeing the place. Ha ha. Not much in it time wise between the Greyhound and the train but the Greyhound was cheaper for us. Flying was out of our budget which was tight. More interesting was the Greyhound journey from Sydney north to Byron Bay, The Gold Coast and Brisbane. Spent some 4 weeks on the Gold Coast with distant relatives and made some trips inland which were fascinating. Inland got a bit dull after a while. For me it didn't have the attractions of the Atacama despite the fact the Atacama is far more desolate.

 

[ian959]

Thanks for the replies guys. The only places I really wanted to visit are Melbourne and Sydney. So my intention was to fly from Singapore to either Darwin or Perth (there's just less than an hour in it, so I don't mind which), then take the train to Adelaide and then fly to Melbourne and on to Sydney. Again, I'm not too fussed which way round I see Sydney and Melbourne, so wouldn't object to taking the train all the way to Sydney.

Come to Australia to see the worst parts of it?

Perth would be a load easier from Singapore than Darwin - 8 flights a day between Singapore and Perth a day I think (Singapore Airlines, Tigerair, Scoot, Jetstar), only 1 or 2 a day to Darwin (Jetstar Asia or Silk Air).

Either way the train journey will be long and mostly interesting. Why not take the train from Adelaide to Melbourne and then from Melbourne to Sydney? Personally I would do the Indian Pacific the whole way to Sydney and then fly down to Melbourne.
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What is the landscape like? I would also love to do one of those journies after finding the Atacama desert fascinating. What concerns me is that Australia is pretty flat compared to the Atacama.

The Indian Pacific goes some very varying landscapes

From Perth, you start in sprawling suburbia, up through the Darling Scarp and onto the flattish plateau of mostly wheat and sheep farms until Southern Cross. There it starts into low forest scrubland of the Goldfields until the near desert of Kalgoorlie. Then it is onto the flat inland plain - the Nullarbor - and the near desert for a long time before the hills and ranges of South Australia from Port Augusta to Adelaide.

Out of Adelaide its pretty much the same through to Broken Hill (real outback type red dirt country) before you start getting back into farm lands and then the descent through the Blue Mountains into the heaving metropolis of Sydney.

 

[fowler9]

Come to Australia to see the worst parts of it?

Perth would be a load easier from Singapore than Darwin - 8 flights a day between Singapore and Perth a day I think (Singapore Airlines, Tigerair, Scoot, Jetstar), only 1 or 2 a day to Darwin (Jetstar Asia or Silk Air).

Either way the train journey will be long and mostly interesting. Why not take the train from Adelaide to Melbourne and then from Melbourne to Sydney? Personally I would do the Indian Pacific the whole way to Sydney and then fly down to Melbourne.
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The Indian Pacific goes some very varying landscapes

From Perth, you start in sprawling suburbia, up through the Darling Scarp and onto the flattish plateau of mostly wheat and sheep farms until Southern Cross. There it starts into low forest scrubland of the Goldfields until the near desert of Kalgoorlie. Then it is onto the flat inland plain - the Nullarbor - and the near desert for a long time before the hills and ranges of South Australia from Port Augusta to Adelaide.

Out of Adelaide its pretty much the same through to Broken Hill (real outback type red dirt country) before you start getting back into farm lands and then the descent through the Blue Mountains into the heaving metropolis of Sydney.

Cheers mate, I reckon I'd love it. I was a bit worried I might find it a bit samey. I once did a 48 odd hour bus journey from Santa Cruz Del La Sierra in Bolivia to Buenos Aires. We spent hour after hour going through endless grass land on that journey and it got a bit tedious. I had previously spent 24 hours on a bus going through the Atacama from Chile to Peru and loved it. I think I would find it interesting if its a bit different. I find the southern part of the ECML very dull, green and flat.

 

[ian959]

The train from Sydney to Canberra was more exciting though as it was hauled by an XPT, the Aussie cousin of our Class 43 HST

I think you mean Sydney to Melbourne. The XPT does not run to Canberra and I am not sure that it ever has, but I might be wrong. Canberra is served by Xplorer DMUs.

 

[Mikey C]

I think you mean Sydney to Melbourne. The XPT does not run to Canberra and I am not sure that it ever has, but I might be wrong. Canberra is served by Xplorer DMUs.

You might be right. On that trip I then went from Canberra to Melbourne, which was by connecting bus and train, so that might have been the XPT train!

 

[ian959]

Cheers mate, I reckon I'd love it. I was a bit worried I might find it a bit samey. I once did a 48 odd hour bus journey from Santa Cruz Del La Sierra in Bolivia to Buenos Aires. We spent hour after hour going through endless grass land on that journey and it got a bit tedious. I had previously spent 24 hours on a bus going through the Atacama from Chile to Peru and loved it. I think I would find it interesting if its a bit different. I find the southern part of the ECML very dull, green and flat.

I find the journey very fascinating because of being able to see so easily the changes in the different types of vegetation types. Even the flat Nullarbor Plain I find fascinating. Then again I LOVE the drive from Perth to Sydney too. I agree with you about the southern part of the ECML if that means anything!
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You might be right. On that trip I then went from Canberra to Melbourne, which was by connecting bus and train, so that might have been the XPT train!

You probably got the bus to Goulburn or Cootamundra and picked up the XPT there

 

[fowler9]

I find the journey very fascinating because of being able to see so easily the changes in the different types of vegetation types. Even the flat Nullarbor Plain I find fascinating. Then again I LOVE the drive from Perth to Sydney too. I agree with you about the southern part of the ECML if that means anything!
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You probably got the bus to Goulburn or Cootamundra and picked up the XPT there

Cheers mate, I'll take your good word for it. The Indian Pacific is a journey I'd love to do. I think it is something that would interest me.

 

[Kentish Paul]

think there are stops at Kalgoorlie (another mining town in the desert, gold this time) and at Cook (a remote loop in the middle of nowhere, where the train stops to take on fuel and water - the I-P crew keep you on a tight leash here - no wandering off into the desert, and no going up front to look at the locos (Health & Safety, you know).

Not so when I went in 2004. It may have changed since.

The stop at Cook was great, I ended up in the cab with many photos taken.

Ended up in Perth, and a flight gack to Sydney.

 

[DownSouth]

- The operator is the same for both trains, Great Southern Rail, a subsidary of (ahem) Serco, using pretty much the same rolling stock & on-board crews, albeit with interchangable Ghan and I-P name boards on the sides.

Much of what Springs Branch says is correct, the actual rolling stock used is pretty much the same on both trains. Which is better depends upon where you are starting your journey and whether you are going to the end of the line.

It is exactly the same rolling stock. During winter they operate The Ghan twice a week and the Indian-Pacific once, and in summer The Ghan goes once and the I-P twice. Even during the two train 'seasons' the coaches can be swapped between the two (sometimes without changing the nameplates) if needed according to the number of booked passengers and GSR's maintenance rotations.

The locomotives used are hired (complete with drivers) from the freight operator Pacific National and are all either NR Class or AN Class locos - all Australian-built diesel-electric locos with 3000+ kW of GE (NR Class) or EMD (AN Class) power built in the 1990s. The Overland (Adelaide-Melbourne) does not have any liveried locomotives and can see a number of different locos as Pacific National use it for loco transfers at times.

It's quite common to see the Ghan and I-P liveried locos on normal freight trains, especially in the 'off-season' for that particular train when it only runs once a week. GSR do get to pay Pacific National a lower fee for the 'hook and pull' service if locos in a standard PN livery turn up instead of the repainted ones.

The Red Class seating coaches are apparently not recommended. These are sealed off from the Gold Class part of the train and the ambience probably gets a bit rugged with the same people sitting in the same seat for several days and nights.
I think Red Class exists as an experience for the Sven from Sveden backpackers (an experience they don't try twice), and maybe some obligation placed on GSR by the AU Government to provide vaguely affordable transportation across the country.

It's the NSW and SA state governments, not the Commonwealth, which provide a small amount of subsidy to have stops in various rural stations available on request. But generally, road coaches provide a far more useful service because they don't need an economy of scale to operate.

I can speak from experience in saying the Red Class seated cars are fine for The Overland (Adelaide-Melbourne) which is a much shorter journey done fully within a single day and arriving in the early evening - but I agree they would be terrible for trying to sleep! With the exception of full-on desert, you get just about the full variety of scenery on this trip with the Adelaide Hills being the best part (except for the mild frustration of it going straight through my local station and within 400 metres of my house without stopping).

think there are stops at Kalgoorlie (another mining town in the desert, gold this time) and at Cook (a remote loop in the middle of nowhere, where the train stops to take on fuel and water - the I-P crew keep you on a tight leash here - no wandering off into the desert, and no going up front to look at the locos (Health & Safety, you know).

Not so when I went in 2004. It may have changed since.

The stop at Cook was great, I ended up in the cab with many photos taken.

Ended up in Perth, and a flight gack to Sydney.

Yep, it's still very much the same as what you experienced.

The crew from GSR know quite well that they are a 'land cruise' operator offering a tourist experience, and not a public transport service.

What is the landscape like? I would also love to do one of those journies after finding the Atacama desert fascinating. What concerns me is that Australia is pretty flat compared to the Atacama.

Cheers mate, I reckon I'd love it. I was a bit worried I might find it a bit samey. I once did a 48 odd hour bus journey from Santa Cruz Del La Sierra in Bolivia to Buenos Aires. We spent hour after hour going through endless grass land on that journey and it got a bit tedious. I had previously spent 24 hours on a bus going through the Atacama from Chile to Peru and loved it. I think I would find it interesting if its a bit different. I find the southern part of the ECML very dull, green and flat.

You get a large variety of landscape - but the downside for some is that you also get a very long period looking at each type of landscape! Most of it can be encountered on the Adelaide-Sydney leg of the Indian-Pacific which arcs north to Broken Hill instead of taking a direct straight line.

Most of the Nullarbor Plain alongside the railway is very different to the Atacama, being covered in low-lying scrub. One of the sights to look out for is the wedge-tailed eagle - these are truly amazing birds and also a hazard to trains which requires locomotives be fitted with armoured glass on the windscreen.

You should consider coming here and doing a big 4WD trip from Alice Springs (take the car north from Adelaide on The Ghan and start there) to Adelaide going off the beaten track. It would be the trip of a lifetime if you managed to come in a wet year (especially if it's one of the very rare years when Lake Eyre fills properly) when wildflowers spring out of the ground all over the place, fish come out of nowhere and birds migrate thousands of kilometres.

What surprises many people about Australia is that so much of it is by no means flat, so much so that it made for great difficulties with constructing the railways. The Adelaide-Melbourne railway line, for example, starts off by taking a circuitous route to climb to 500 metres of altitude (far higher than Shap Summit at 279m) from near sea level inside the first 30 kilometres of leaving Adelaide.

Thanks for the replies guys. The only places I really wanted to visit are Melbourne and Sydney. So my intention was to fly from Singapore to either Darwin or Perth (there's just less than an hour in it, so I don't mind which), then take the train to Adelaide and then fly to Melbourne and on to Sydney. Again, I'm not too fussed which way round I see Sydney and Melbourne, so wouldn't object to taking the train all the way to Sydney.

Another suggestion - fly into Adelaide from Singapore (or maybe consider changing planes in Dubai instead) then stay for a couple of days and take either the Indian-Pacific to Sydney or The Overland to Melbourne.

Adelaide is pretty easy to get around, you can get a three day unlimited pass for all Adelaide Metro trains, trams and buses for $25 (about £13) which covers a radius of up to 45 kilometres from the city in certain directions. There is also a free bike share scheme which is perfect for a trip to the beach and back, but unfortunately hampered by having to return it to the same 'base station' you started.

Some of the things which make 2-3 days in Adelaide worthwhile include:
- the National Rail Museum at Port Adelaide, home of what is believed to be the only operational set of triple gauge points left in the world and an eclectic variety of rolling stock and other accoutrements.
- if you're a cricket fan, a tour of Adelaide Oval including the old scoreboard and the excellent new permanent home of the Bradman Collection. Entry to the Oval is free if you come for a Sheffield Shield first class match.
- Cleland Conservation Park, offering a number of easy-medium hike options with spectacular views over the Mount Lofty Ranges and also a (paid entry) wildlife park.
- Belair National Park, which is right outside the last station on the Belair line Adelaide Metro train service and excellent for walking or cycling.
- a wide choice of beaches accessible within a short trip from the city on public transport.
- the McLaren Vale wine district (use of public transport definitely recommended)
- if you come during the January-March period, there are lots of events on including the Tour Down Under (WorldTour cycling race featuring all the top teams including Team Sky), the Adelaide Festival and Fringe, the Clipsal 500 motor racing weekend on the Adelaide Parklands Street Circuit which formerly hosted Formula 1.

If you hire a car to get around, you can go a bit further to:
- Victor Harbor and Goolwa on the south coast.
- Steamranger, which with 82km of their own former SAR track is one of the longest heritage railways in the world, is located about an hour out of town depending on which of the towns along the way you head to. A return trip on the 'Cockle Train' between Victor Harbor and Goolwa is a great part of a day on the south coast, but they also operate other longer trains out of Mt Barker (in the Adelaide Hills and connected to the city by fast Adelaide Metro buses).
- the National Motor Museum at Birdwood.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

I'd personally recommend doing Melbourne to Sydney during the day some epic scenery on route I did this the other day and today I did the xpt from Sydney to Brisbane happy to say I'm done with Sydney now but would happily use it as a stopover to change xpt's

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

I'd personally recommend doing Melbourne to Sydney during the day some epic scenery on route I did this the other day and today I did the xpt from Sydney to Brisbane happy to say I'm done with Sydney now but would happily use it as a stopover to change xpt's

I've done the Sydney Melbourne XPT in both day and night. Daytime is defiantly better than night. Both times I bought First class tickets in sitting car Car B. You generally get allocated a window seat unless all the window seats a taken.

Night time you have to contend with the noises and flashing lights and whatnot. Plus you get the crew walking in with thier torch to get passengers ready to leave the train at the next stop.
If you're a heavy sleeper it might not bother you much.

The highlight of the trip is going over the Bethunga spiral.

The train can run late every so often. On the day trip we were 15 minutes early at Junee only to be half an hour late at Central due to a freight train.

 

[Bald Rick]

Did Alice to Adelaide in 2002, Gold Kangaroo class. It was certainly an experience, but the train trip itself was frankly a bit, well, dull. Once you've seen one unbroken expanse of desert scrub, you've seen them all. We did meet some great people, one couple we are still in regular contact with.

If you are to go Adelaide to Melbourne, or Melbourne to Sydney, I strongly recommend hiring a car. Some of the scenery on the coast roads is stunning. I can recommend some places to stay.

 

[Springs Branch]

I find the journey very fascinating because of being able to see so easily the changes in the different types of vegetation types. Even the flat Nullarbor Plain I find fascinating....

...... train trip itself was frankly a bit, well, dull. Once you've seen one unbroken expanse of desert scrub, you've seen them all.....

Whenever I've got into discussions on scenery in the Australian Outback, it always brings out a wide spectrum of opinions, and this thread is no different.

Some people enjoy watching low, stunted scrub transition to slighty less low, stunted scrub, or a flat, red plain becoming a flat red plain with a few sandhills over a 4 hour period.
For me, after the first hour or so of appreciating the vastness & emptiness of it all, I start to find it tedious and avoid long trips across the outback whenever I can. But others love it, and they're perfectly entitled their view.

It's a matter of personal preferences and we can't know where on this spectrum the OP will fall.

Same thing with the cities - one person says "Don't go to Sydney, Melbourne is better", next one says "Melbourne is crap, don't stay there, go straight to Sydney".

In any case, there's no right or wrong answer.

The only comments I'd make are:
- Monotonous or not, inland Australia is worth seeing at least once in your life, and I'm glad I've had the opportunity (albeit from the highways, not the I-P or Ghan).
- Whichever of the main cities you visit in Aus, they're all pleasant, have enough to see in a short holiday (except, possibly not a lot in Darwin).
- Whether you choose the Indian-Pacific or The Ghan, the on-train experience should be very good (organised as a Land Cruise, rather than a means to get from A to B) and essentially the same on either train.

Back to the original question - I personally would rather do The Ghan than the I-P.

Plus, I 100% endorse Bald Rick's recommendation about driving Adelaide-Melbourne (via Great Ocean Road) or Melbourne-Sydney (via Princes Hwy & south coast NSW) if you have the time and $$. Either leg takes several days, with great scenery & places to stop along the way, and definitely no boring expanses of desert here! You need to drive to do this, the interstate trains take a totally different inland route.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The Indian Pacific in central at Sydney taking up two platforms is one of the few highlights of a very boring spineless city centre it's a shame just how bland Sydney city centre is for anything other than homeless people and posers considering how awesome the suburbs are especially Newtown marrickville leichhardt manly northern beaches etc.

Can anyone give me platform lengths for p1/2 at central?

Can anyone tell me how many of the 70s stock is diagrammed for none peak use? As I was regularly seeing them in use with waratahs and tangaras parked up at sideing near Granville

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Can anyone give me platform lengths for p1/2 at central?

According to the diagrams PL1 is 372m and PL2 is 327m

Can anyone tell me how many of the 70s stock is diagrammed for none peak use? As I was regularly seeing them in use with waratahs and tangaras parked up at sideing near Granville

The T7 gets S sets during the weekdays. Other than that they don't get much use since the last Waratah was delivered. They've retained some to use for when the SWRL opens.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The Waratah is a great train shame some are starting to get a bit of etching now.. the Tangaras and the Millennium units are getting quite tatty externally. Interesting that Queensland rail have improved their image a lot in three months since I was last here Havnt seen a single Unit with graffiti yet in 3 days and loving the mix of red and black pantographs makes the livery look better

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

The Waratah is a great train shame some are starting to get a bit of etching now.. the Tangaras and the Millennium units are getting quite tatty externally. Interesting that Queensland rail have improved their image a lot in three months since I was last here Havnt seen a single Unit with graffiti yet in 3 days and loving the mix of red and black pantographs makes the livery look better

I find the internal refurb they've done on the Tangara has livened them up. Some of them were looking rather tired.
The Millennium train seats are getting replaced as well with the same fabric as the Waratah. It looks better than the original seating by a mile.

 

[fowler9]

I find the internal refurb they've done on the Tangara has livened them up. Some of them were looking rather tired.
The Millennium train seats are getting replaced as well with the same fabric as the Waratah. It looks better than the original seating by a mile.

My mates family lives in Pakenham. He has moved closer to the centre of Melbourne now. Small world.
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The Indian Pacific in central at Sydney taking up two platforms is one of the few highlights of a very boring spineless city centre it's a shame just how bland Sydney city centre is for anything other than homeless people and posers considering how awesome the suburbs are especially Newtown marrickville leichhardt manly northern beaches etc.

Can anyone give me platform lengths for p1/2 at central?

Can anyone tell me how many of the 70s stock is diagrammed for none peak use? As I was regularly seeing them in use with waratahs and tangaras parked up at sideing near Granville

I thought Sydney City centre was quite interesting and worth a visit.

 

[LesS]

The Ghan is certainly the more interesting journey; in either direction. The scenery is varied to a degree unimaginable. The most common complaint about the Indian Pacific is that the long crossing of the Nullabor can become boring and uninteresting. From a railfan point of view the restrictions on movement around the stop at Cook are frustrating.

With the Ghan there are off train tours at both Alice Springs and Katherine. A visit to Katherine Gorge should not be missed.

The carriages on both trains are the same and are interchangeable. For comfort travel Gold class. Sitting up in red is for backpackers and red sleepers are very cramped.

Between Melbourne and Sydney use the day train. It is an interesting journey with plenty of changes of scenery. The difference in fare and facilities between economy & first is not great, so I recommend first class.

 

[tranzitjim]

Thanks for the replies guys. The only places I really wanted to visit are Melbourne and Sydney. So my intention was to fly from Singapore to either Darwin or Perth (there's just less than an hour in it, so I don't mind which), then take the train to Adelaide and then fly to Melbourne and on to Sydney. Again, I'm not too fussed which way round I see Sydney and Melbourne, so wouldn't object to taking the train all the way to Sydney.

To travel between Melbourne and Adelaide, I would suggest 'The Overland' passenger train, as it is also owned by GSR, and operates a day time link between the two capital cities.

It was once an overnight train, but has since been changed to a daytime one. It only runs I think two days a week in each direction.

It runs through the scenic Adelaide Hills, get to go past 'The Grampians' which is a mountain range in western Victoria. You should also get to see some decent 'Broad gauge' activity as you travel the last hour into Melbourne with both DMUs and EMUs on different sections.

Otherwise, the XPT between Melbourne and Sydney is worth doing.

While in Melbourne, look up the 'Association of Railway Enthusiests' and their 'Railfan Shop' who have monthly DVD meetings, and preservation groups like Steamrail Victoria and Seymour Railway Heritage Center (SRHC) would be an interest to most train buffs.

 

[Mojo]

I don't think I could hack another journey on an ordinary train after doing the Ghan as well! Looks like flying is much cheaper anyway.

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

[Stonesourscotty]

$300 Nsw Trainlink ticket is very much recommended by me unlimited XPT's (hsts) between Brisbane and Melbourne for 3 months its a bargain only issue is poor alcohol choices on trains and cant bring your own onboard and the xpt horn is quite noisy especially when your in Victoria at night with the many level crossings there!

Also as far as i can tell Trainlink operate the Blue Mountains Line service yet i was told this ticket isnt valid on this? Speaking of blue mountains line Sydney is Plagued by trains that stop at far to many stations and a Uk Equivalent of a fast service is actually a semi fast train there which really slows the network down.

 

[LesS]

The arrangements between NSW Trainlink and Sydney Trains is unusual. The $300 ticket is only available on the long distance Trainlink services and requires seat reservations. The ticket also applies to the connecting bus services; which also require reservations.

The other Trainlink services are operated for them by Sydney Trains. You will need an Opal card whch has a daily cap of $15. This card operates like Oyster but without the nasties in Oyster.

Be aware that under the current timetable the service between Sydney and Brisbane turns around in Brisbane between 4.00am & 5.00am Sydney time.

For any visit to Sydney you should check for steam hauled heritage services on this website. www.heritageexpress.com.au

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Fully aware on the Brisbane arrival time and it's a killer Roma street at that hour isn't the best experience. Luckily City train runs early enough shame about Brisbane buses starting so pate