Austrian Steam in the Twilight Years - esp Branch lines north of Vienna

[70014IronDuke]

Note: Taken out of this thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...y-post-world-war-2.225957/page-2#post-5449225

As I thought the Austrian-rail content might be of importance to later researchers.

70014IronDuke said:


One of the (for me) great advantages of being a railway/steam - photographer/enthusiast back at the end of steam in the UK and taking up the quest of chasing steam on the European continent is that it took one to places few others travelled.

Thus it was that I ventured to Nieder Osterreich in 1972-3. It was certainly a long time after Bryan Morgan, of that there is no doubt, but - and I hope I am not allowing historical knowledge gained later to cloud my memories - but even in 1973, that is 18 years after the Soviet withdrawal from the region north of Vienna, one could still feel the presence of this occupation.

The country people were also amazingly friendly: I would be walking down a road into a village after trying to photograph an OBB 2-8-2T (was it the 91 class? Or 93?) on some vague branch line working and some 55-year old local would spend 2 minutes asking who the heck I was before inviting me in for coffee or Spritze - and maybe a sandwich or lunch.

I am sure that today, these areas are mostly absorbed by the Vienna agglomeration and have become immune to the odd stranger, but back then, they retained their provincial roots, and a foreigner wandering into their midst was, once 'cleared' as ok, was very much welcomed.

Click to expand...

70014IronDuke said:


One of the (for me) great advantages of being a railway/steam - photographer/enthusiast back at the end of steam in the UK and taking up the quest of chasing steam on the European continent is that it took one to places few others travelled.

Thus it was that I ventured to Nieder Osterreich in 1972-3. It was certainly a long time after Bryan Morgan, of that there is no doubt, but - and I hope I am not allowing historical knowledge gained later to cloud my memories - but even in 1973, that is 18 years after the Soviet withdrawal from the region north of Vienna, one could still feel the presence of this occupation.

The country people were also amazingly friendly: I would be walking down a road into a village after trying to photograph an OBB 2-8-2T (was it the 91 class? Or 93?) on some vague branch line working and some 55-year old local would spend 2 minutes asking who the heck I was before inviting me in for coffee or Spritze - and maybe a sandwich or lunch.

I am sure that today, these areas are mostly absorbed by the Vienna agglomeration and have become immune to the odd stranger, but back then, they retained their provincial roots, and a foreigner wandering into their midst was, once 'cleared' as ok, was very much welcomed.

Click to expand...

The 93's were the large 2-8-2 tanks and were quite common on non-electrified secondary lines. The 91's were ancient 2-6-0 tanks which by 1970 when I took this photo were confined to the Neuberg branch because of their light weight.

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Calthrop​

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Joined 6 Dec 2015 Messages 2,486

52290 said:


The 93's were the large 2-8-2 tanks and were quite common on non-electrified secondary lines. The 91's were ancient 2-6-0 tanks which by 1970 when I took this photo were confined to the Neuberg branch because of their light weight.

With feeling here, of "permission / indulgence" for a bit of what an associate of ours calls "spottery wibble" (as opposed to serious socio-political analysis): fairly closely north-north-east of Vienna -- featuring indeed in strength until late in Austria's steam era, the class 93 2-8-2Ts -- was a wonderful secondary-line system. My only first-hand experience of it was an unforgettable day in summer 1970: for me, utter delight. About the same time as @70014IronDuke's time spent on it: the late lamented Continental Railway Journal wrote of it: "The whole dense network of lightly-trafficked railways in these thinly-populated regions is well worth a visit for its unique branch-line atmosphere. Many trains are mixed, and consist of perhaps two four-wheeled coaches followed by any number of wagons; the schedules are very slow, but often not slow enough to allow for the protracted shunting at wayside stations which gives passengers (never, it seems, more than a handful) rides over quite long sidings, and ample opportunity for photography. The network would probably not survive five minutes if Austria were ever to appoint a Beeching."

The above-prophesied horrid fate came to be at last, in the late 1980s (a long time after the end of steam) -- though with some parts of the system surviving -- including for passenger traffic; to the best of my knowledge, some still active at the present day.




Last edited: Today at 02:11

 

[30907]

Brings back memories of the early 70s (though I missed the 91) - ancient 4wheelers and hardly any passengers, fairly sure I was the only one on an evening train somewhere NE of Vienna.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Brings back memories of the early 70s (though I missed the 91) - ancient 4wheelers and hardly any passengers, fairly sure I was the only one on an evening train somewhere NE of Vienna.

Thanks for posting, @30907, as I can now post a response to @Calthrop (I tried earlier, but it merged my post with my re-posting!) who wrote:

"With feeling here, of "permission / indulgence" for a bit of what an associate of ours calls "spottery wibble" (as opposed to serious socio-political analysis): fairly closely north-north-east of Vienna -- featuring indeed in strength until late in Austria's steam era, the class 93 2-8-2Ts -- was a wonderful secondary-line system. My only first-hand experience of it was an unforgettable day in summer 1970: for me, utter delight. About the same time as @70014IronDuke's time spent on it: the late lamented Continental Railway Journal wrote of it: "The whole dense network of lightly-trafficked railways in these thinly-populated regions is well worth a visit for its unique branch-line atmosphere. Many trains are mixed, and consist of perhaps two four-wheeled coaches followed by any number of wagons; the schedules are very slow, but often not slow enough to allow for the protracted shunting at wayside stations which gives passengers (never, it seems, more than a handful) rides over quite long sidings, and ample opportunity for photography. The network would probably not survive five minutes if Austria were ever to appoint a Beeching." "

The somewhat annoying thing about my trip to this area - which was centred on the rural town of Mistelbach* - is that I failed to get a decent photo of a single 93. Of course, I got sharp images of said tank engines, but nothing that I considered a "master shot" worthy of showing off to anyone.

(* Mistelbach - when I told Austrians I'd been there in later years they looked at me and smiled, as if I'd said: "I've been to England. I went to Todmorden, you know.")

It didn't help that I'd gone in early August of 73, when (of course) due to the heat there was usually little to no visible exhaust from the tank engines most days, except very early mornings. And, in truth, I wasn't so enamered with the aethetics of 93s as I was with the Class 77 pacific tanks (and to a lesser extent 78 baltic variants) that worked two commuter trains each way on each of the lines from Retz and Bernharstahl into Vienna on a daily basis. The 93-worked lines were in a kind of V between these two lines north some 50 miles of the Austrian capital.

But while I can't remember the passenger stock being four-wheeled, nor can I remember any mixed trains, the lines were like visiting, I don't know, the Somerset and Dorset or the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton in 1960. (Although they lacked the S&D's summer Saturday extras.)

At that time, there were still little branch lines operating all over Austria, but none as I remember with so many steam workings and no such web of lines all together. I seem to remember one line went south almost into Vienna (and perhaps did, indeed, cross into the city boundary) - but it terminated at some northern village suburb, and was useless for commuting into the city itself.

 

[30907]

My photos weren't brilliant either, but I'll have a look....

Mistelbach BTW - and yes, it did feel back of beyond (I walked through town to find a photographic shop as my new camera was causing problems - turned out it was the operator

 

[Calthrop]

@70014IronDuke: thanks for thus hiving-off re what was briefly the Soviet zone of Austria, "railfanning" from "the earnest socio-political".

If I may, I'll lay out as below: an adaptation of material which I've posted elsewhere, about my one day on the Mistelbach secondary-line system, in August 1970 (would dearly have liked to like to give the system longer; but had only a week in Austria: rather frantic tearing-around to cover as many railway highlights as possible -- and some greatly desired stuff still had to be skipped: simply not enough time).

Our (self and two companions) day in "93-land" began with an early-morning departure, diesel-hauled, from Vienna (Praterstern), taking the main line north-eastward from the capital; alighting at Hohenau: which is pretty much where nowadays Austria, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia, all meet. We changed to the line of the class 93-worked secondary system, which ran westward out of Hohenau, to Mistelbach: this latter, the system's central point, and location of its chef steam MPD. It appeared to us that about half of the system's 93 fleet retained traditional-style chimneys; while the other half were fitted with the no doubt performance-enhancing, but to many observers "uglifying", Giesl ejector. Continental Railway Journal and other learned works inform us that at that time, a minority of workings on this system were railcar: if any such were witnessed by us, they have disappeared from my memory.

Our journeying over the system, on this beautiful summer's day -- basically back from Hohenau to Vienna by a slightly devious route -- was by three successive 93-hauled workings. Passenger accommodation on these trains was indeed, four-wheeled coaches with slatted wooden seats -- far from the only experience of same during my week in Austria. Our first run on the system was -- as above -- mixed train Hohenau -- Mistelbach, behind a bunker-first non-Gielised 93. We were easily able to negotiate unofficial footplate rides with the friendly loco crew. In this part of the journey, we were intrigued to see numerous oil-pumping apparatus, nodding away against an incongruous backdrop of green fields. The small oilfield here supplied a tiny percentage of Austria's total requirement of the commodity.

Arrived at Mistelbach, we embarked on another mixed; heading south-eastward -- its final destination Gaenserndorf, on the main line Vienna -- Hohenau traversed that morning. The 93 heading this train was Giesl-fitted. En route there was a lengthy session of shunting wagons at Gaweinstal; followed at Pirawarth, one of the system's numerous little junctions, by -- in the best Austrian laid-back tradition -- the booked timetable being overrun a little by train crew and passengers alike engaging in picking ripe plums in a tempting orchard adjoining the station. Onward then a few kilometres to the next country junction, Gross-Schweinbarth. Here, we left the Gaenserndorf train to await one due to arrive in half-an-hour-plus, from further north by a different route: to take the line which at Gross-Schweinbarth, diverged south-westward, as per @70014IronDuke's post #3 running "almost into Vienna" -- the "northern village suburb" referred to, being Stammersdorf. Our train heading for there, arrived at Gross-Schweinbarth in the rather surprising form of two non-Giesl 93s hauling two four-wheel coaches. Another two four-wheelers were added here at Gross-Schweinbarth; and our double-header duly diverged sharp right, and took us to Stammersdorf. It became known that this double-heading manoeuvre was a regular duty, and in fact made sense: after reaching Stammersdorf terminus at early-evening commuting time, each loco took on a different outbound train, to different destinations, departing within a few minutes of each other. I would take issue, by the way, with the suggestion that this terminus-in-the-suburbs was useless for commuting: it was connected with the city centre by an -- admittedly long -- tram route, by which we duly travelled to get back to "downtown" Vienna and our accommodation.

Afraid I have no pictures to offer, of this day's doings; I've never been a "photter, to trade" (it's the travelling that I love) -- fifty years ago I did half-heartedly and perfunctorily take pictures; but owing to life's vicissitudes since, they are no more -- I consider them, anyhow, no great loss to anybody.

As well as the class-93-worked secondary system: there was fifty years ago (and possibly still today -- re that, I have no recent information) another and separate line serving Mistelbach, with its separate station in the town: coming up directly northward from Vienna, and continuing further northward to the Czech border. As at 1970, this line was all-diesel. Scenery-wise, this whole area north of Vienna very much does not partake of Austria's vaunted mountain magnificence: it is pleasant but low-lying countryside, featuring some low, gentle hills. Much of my week in Austria was in the lowlands, not the mountains -- "low down" being where a lot of the railway interest was.

 

[70014IronDuke]

@70014IronDuke: thanks for thus hiving-off re what was briefly the Soviet zone of Austria, ""railfanning" from "the earnest socio-political".

If I may, I'll lay out as below: an adaptation of material which I've posted elsewhere, about my one day on the Mistelbach secondary-line system, in August 1970 (would dearly have liked to like to give the system longer; but had only a week in Austria: rather frantic tearing-around to cover as many railway highlights as possible -- and some greatly desired stuff still had to be skipped: simply not enough time).

Our (self and two companions) day in "93-land" began with an early-morning departure, diesel-hauled, from Vienna (Praterstern), taking the main line north-eastward from the capital; alighting at Hohenau: which is pretty much where nowadays Austria, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia, all meet.

Indeed, this main line northwards (to Breclav and on to Brno) for maybe 25 km ran very, very near the then Czechoslovak border at times. Although your train was diesel, the Vienna commuter trains must have been steam then, and there must have been steam on freight in 1970 - I saw one or two in my first (fleeting) 1972 September visit, and another in August 73. I slept out on the footpath at Ganserndorf statin and woke up c 05.45 to find a Kriegslok departing north-east into the rising sun. That is a pretty decent shot - but I don't know where the slides are.

We changed to the line of the class 93-worked secondary system, which ran westward out of Hohenau, to Mistelbach: this latter, the system's central point, and location of its chef steam MPD. It appeared to us that about half of the system's 93 fleet retained traditional-style chimneys; while the other half were fitted with the no doubt performance-enhancing, but to many observers "uglifying", Giesl ejector. Continental Railway Journal and other learned works inform us that at that time, a minority of workings on this system were railcar: if any such were witnessed by us, they have disappeared from my memory.

I think certainly by 1973 the majority of workings were indeed railcar.

Our journeying over the system, on this beautiful summer's day -- basically back from Hohenau to Vienna by a slightly devious route -- was by three successive 93-hauled workings. Passenger accommodation on these trains was indeed, four-wheeled coaches with slatted wooden seats -- far from the only experience of same during my week in Austria. Our first run on the system was -- as above -- mixed train Hohenau -- Mistelbach, behind a bunker-first non-Gielised 93. We were easily able to negotiate unofficial footplate rides with the friendly loco crew. In this part of the journey, we were intrigued to see numerous oil-pumping apparatus, nodding away against an incongruous backdrop of green fields. The small oilfield here supplied a tiny percentage of Austria's total requirement of the commodity.

Yes, the donkey pumps were immediately obvious as one went into those hills. I was told this was Austria's first oil field, and became the basis for OMV, the state oil company (now largely privatised, I believe). Indeed, I think I was told that the Baumgartner gas hub is in this area- it's the major gas storage/trading point in the region.

I think Hr Hitler had a big interest in these oil wells too.

Arrived at Mistelbach, we embarked on another mixed; heading south-eastward -- its final destination Gaenserndorf, on the main line Vienna -- Hohenau traversed that morning. The 93 heading this train was Giesl-fitted. En route there was a lengthy session of shunting wagons at Gaweinstal; followed at Pirawarth, one of the system's numerous little junctions, by -- in the best Austrian laid-back tradition -- the booked timetable being overrun a little by train crew and passengers alike engaging in picking ripe plums in a tempting orchard adjoining the station.

Ha ha! I took a train from Gaenserndorf to Pirawath. I think that was railcar. I stopped off at Maerzen (home to a local brewery) en route to photograph a following 93-hauled train. The gradients were spectacular there, but the loco made light work of the train, with no special clag effects whatsoever.

Onward then a few kilometres to the next country junction, Gross-Schweinbarth. Here, we left the Gaenserndorf train to await one due to arrive in half-an-hour-plus, from further north by a different route: to take the line which at Gross-Schweinbarth, diverged south-westward, as per @70014IronDuke's post #3 running "almost into Vienna" -- the "northern village suburb" referred to, being Stammersdorf.

Yes, I think you've correctly identified that - thanks! I had an "Austrian Steam" booklet produced by the NELPG which had, IIRC, a nice diagram-map of the system.

Our train heading for there, arrived at Gross-Schweinbarth in the rather surprising form of two non-Giesl 93s hauling two four-wheel coaches. Another two four-wheelers were added here at Gross-Schweinbarth; and our double-header duly diverged sharp right, and took us to Stammersdorf. It became known that this double-heading manoeuvre was a regular duty, and in fact made sense: after reaching Stammersdorf terminus at early-evening commuting time, each loco took on a different outbound train, to different destinations, departing within a few minutes of each other. I would take issue, by the way, with the suggestion that this terminus-in-the-suburbs was useless for commuting: it was connected with the city centre by an -- admittedly long -- tram route, by which we duly travelled to get back to "downtown" Vienna and our accommodation.

Oh, I can believe there was a tram route, but heck ..... doing that every day from somewhere like Pirawath to get into central Vienna for an 08.00 start?

Afraid I have no pictures to offer, of this day's doings; I've never been a "photter, to trade" (it's the travelling that I love) -- fifty years ago I did half-heartedly and perfunctorily take pictures; but owing to life's vicissitudes since, they are no more -- I consider them, anyhow, no great loss to anybody.

As well as the class-93-worked secondary system: there was fifty years ago (and possibly still today -- re that, I have no recent information) another and separate line serving Mistelbach, with its separate station in the town: coming up directly northward from Vienna, and continuing further northward to the Czech border. As at 1970, this line was all-diesel.

Yes, this does ring a bell, now that you mention it. But since it was all diesel, I don't think I even bothered to look it up. I stayed the Saturday night in Mistelbach - I think I must have eaten in town and hoped to meet up with some local lads (and lasses) but that was as big a failure as my efforts to photograph 93s, and I retired to the station, found a carriage and slept in that.

Scenery-wise, this whole area north of Vienna very much does not partake of Austria's vaunted mountain magnificence: it is pleasant but low-lying countryside, featuring some low, gentle hills. Much of my week in Austria was in the lowlands, not the mountains -- "low down" being where a lot of the railway interest was.

Perfect description - except the Vienna - Hohenau line itself was practically flat every inch of the way! This topography was, of course, the very reason that the local folks saw next to no foreign tourists (and only a few domestic ones too) - the average tourist does not fly to Austria to see the equivalent of Northamptonshire hill country.

It was this lack of tourists that made the locals very friendly. I was often treated to drinks and even meals after just walking into a pub by locals - fascinated that this Englander with his rucksack should venture forth into their village.

 

[52290]

Here's a photo of a class 93 I took in June 1970 at Puchberg am Schneeberg. This is where the narrow gauge line to the top of the Schneeberg starts.

 

[Calthrop]

Indeed, this main line northwards (to Breclav and on to Brno) for maybe 25 km ran very, very near the then Czechoslovak border at times. Although your train was diesel, the Vienna commuter trains must have been steam then, and there must have been steam on freight in 1970 - I saw one or two in my first (fleeting) 1972 September visit, and another in August 73. I slept out on the footpath at Ganserndorf statin and woke up c 05.45 to find a Kriegslok departing north-east into the rising sun. That is a pretty decent shot - but I don't know where the slides are.

We totally missed out on the Vienna steam commuter services, Stammersdorf aside. As mentioned, trying to do as much as possible in approx. the eastern half of Austria, in a week -- a lot of things had to give. May have seen steam action of some kind (52s on freight??) from train between Vienna and Hohenau; but if so, that has totally vanished from memory cells at half a century's distance.

I think certainly by 1973 the majority of workings were indeed railcar.

OBB steam was "a long time (completely) dying", was it not? -- I seem to have 1976 in mind as the final year, including 93s on the Mistelbach system.

Yes, the donkey pumps were immediately obvious as one went into those hills. I was told this was Austria's first oil field, and became the basis for OMV, the state oil company (now largely privatised, I believe). Indeed, I think I was told that the Baumgartner gas hub is in this area- it's the major gas storage/trading point in the region.

I think Hr Hitler had a big interest in these oil wells too.

Wouldn't they have been a mere drop in his bucket? I'd gathered that it was the oil of Romania, and the Caucasus, that he really coveted.

Ha ha! I took a train from Gaenserndorf to Pirawath. I think that was railcar. I stopped off at Maerzen (home to a local brewery) en route to photograph a following 93-hauled train. The gradients were spectacular there, but the loco made light work of the train, with no special clag effects whatsoever.

Trivia item: if I translate rightly, Gaenserndorf means "geese village"; which I feel is rather sweet.

Yes, I think you've correctly identified that - thanks! I had an "Austrian Steam" booklet produced by the NELPG which had, IIRC, a nice diagram-map of the system.

I'm not sure that we didn't have the same booklet (1970 version).

Oh, I can believe there was a tram route, but heck ..... doing that every day from somewhere like Pirawath to get into central Vienna for an 08.00 start?

But think of those plums at home -- made it all worthwhile !

Yes, this does ring a bell, now that you mention it. But since it was all diesel, I don't think I even bothered to look it up. I stayed the Saturday night in Mistelbach - I think I must have eaten in town and hoped to meet up with some local lads (and lasses) but that was as big a failure as my efforts to photograph 93s, and I retired to the station, found a carriage and slept in that.

Compared with your sleeping-rough doings, we must have been thorough wimps -- we were in our early twenties, and it was hot summer; but apart from the occasional (later in the bash, beyond Austria) overnight train journey, it was hostels / hotels for us all the way.

 

[Austriantrain]

Thank you for these very interesting trip reports - I travelled around those lines as a small kid, but was too young for steam; all diesel by then.

Now of course, all local lines there are closed to passengers and very little left for the occasional freight; much as been deposed. The area was a dead-end with shrinking population while the iron curtain lasted and for long after; it has only recently experienced a renaissance with exploding real estate prices in and immediately around Vienna. Too late for passenger rail obviously, even though on the remaining radial lines out of Vienna, the timetable at least is now better than it has ever been (and everything is electrified now, obviously).

 

[70014IronDuke]

We totally missed out on the Vienna steam commuter services, Stammersdorf aside. As mentioned, trying to do as much as possible in approx. the eastern half of Austria, in a week -- a lot of things had to give. May have seen steam action of some kind (52s on freight??) from train between Vienna and Hohenau; but if so, that has totally vanished from memory cells at half a century's distance.

Much as I found the 93s and their trains quaint and quirky, I focused more on the Vienna commuter trains, mostly on the Retz line (the Hohenau route being so flat). The Class 77s were really a nice-looking locomotive - the 78s (baltic tanks, with extra coal bunkers) were more modern, and not so attractive to my eyes - but for some reason it was clear Wien Nord operating department like the 77s more and kept more in service. They were originally designed in 1913!

OBB steam was "a long time (completely) dying", was it not? -- I seem to have 1976 in mind as the final year, including 93s on the Mistelbach system.

I wrote to the Austrian Eisenbahn museum this spring and got some very helpful replies from a Hr Herbert Harrer. The Retz and Hohenau steam workings stopped in 1975 - but they didn't withdraw all the 77s until Spring 76. He confirmed Austrian steam ended in 76. (But I guess that is OBB standard gauge stuff - I don't know if there were any narrow-gauge or rack lines still going.)

So maybe they kept some 77s and used them on the Mistelbach system, I don't know. (They might be a bit heavy for those lightly laid lines, however.)

Wouldn't they have been a mere drop in his bucket? I'd gathered that it was the oil of Romania, and the Caucasus, that he really coveted.

I think the Dear Fuhrer was after every drop he could get. One reason for his attempt to hold the Red Army east of the Danube was the oil around Zala County, in SW Hungary.

But yes, my impression is that the Ploesti fields were far more important - but then he lost those earlier! (And they were bombed by the allies.)

Trivia item: if I translate rightly, Gaenserndorf means "geese village"; which I feel is rather sweet.

Yes. Along with Mistelbach, this always brings a smile to the faces of Austrians when I tell them I was there in 73. Even though it was electrified then, I think it was still 'early days' in term of it being a dormitory town for Vienna, and it still felt a bit like a goose village at the time!

I'm not sure that we didn't have the same booklet (1970 version).

Great Minds? Or, pre-internet, just desperate days for info? !

But think of those plums at home -- made it all worthwhile !

Compared with your sleeping-rough doings, we must have been thorough wimps -- we were in our early twenties, and it was hot summer; but apart from the occasional (later in the bash, beyond Austria) overnight train journey, it was hostels / hotels for us all the way.

Bluddy luxury! Sleeping rough had its advantages apart from saving the Schillings - as per waking to find a 52 about to depart with the rising sun.

 

[Calthrop]

I wrote to the Austrian Eisenbahn museum this spring and got some very helpful replies from a Hr Herbert Harrer. The Retz and Hohenau steam workings stopped in 1975 - but they didn't withdraw all the 77s until Spring 76. He confirmed Austrian steam ended in 76. (But I guess that is OBB standard gauge stuff - I don't know if there were any narrow-gauge or rack lines still going.)

So maybe they kept some 77s and used them on the Mistelbach system, I don't know. (They might be a bit heavy for those lightly laid lines, however.)

OBB steam was "a long time (completely) dying", was it not? -- I seem to have 1976 in mind as the final year, including 93s on the Mistelbach system.

Wretched Forums quoting mechanism: maddeningly easy to mess up -- somehow my earlier post is showing up after your later reply !

I realise that I was thinking of -- and should have made that clear -- conventional run-of-the-mill OBB steam types (incl. 52, 93, 77): 1976 the end for those -- but assorted OBB steam "weirdies" continued in use, for longer. If I have things correctly: the Erzberg rack 0-6-2Ts until 1978; steam on Schneeberg metre-gauge rack line (which was OBB), till late 1990s; conventional 760mm gauge lines -- Steyrtalbahn remained steam until early 1980s final closure (part now preserved), Gmuend (Engerth 0-8-0+4T's) into the 1990s. In 1970, the Gmuend 760mm was, I think, only vaguely on my radar. With hindsight -- I could maybe have settled for a "swap", changing what actually happened: for my skipping the Mistelbach lines (delightful though I found them), in favour of going to Gmuend.

I'm sure that the very splendid Continental Railway Journal -- which reported on things Austrian (especially steam, and narrow gauge) most fully and faithfully -- gives precise chapter and verse re the end of OBB conventional steam; it's just a bit of a fag turning up the relevant ones, from decades' worth of back numbers !

 

[leytongabriel]

Remember as a teenager having the pleasure of riding on a well-filled steam-hauled commuter train out of Vienna in I guess 1972. There was regular steam haulage on the Erzbergbahn rack railway at the time and some trains on the local system out of Graz. In 1968 we were in Ostbahnhof and saw the last steam train off to Brno before the Russians invaded Czechoslovakia that night.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Remember as a teenager having the pleasure of riding on a well-filled steam-hauled commuter train out of Vienna in I guess 1972. There was regular steam haulage on the Erzbergbahn rack railway at the time and some trains on the local system out of Graz. In 1968 we were in Ostbahnhof and saw the last steam train off to Brno before the Russians invaded Czechoslovakia that night.

Do you mean the Graz-Koflicher (spelling?) Eisenbahn? I suspect very few, even in 1972. I visited one Sunday - Monday in August 73 and from memory saw one 52 in steam. That was over a good 30 hours. Vienna - Hohenau was like Clapham Junction in comparson

What was heading the last steam from Wien Ostbahnhof to Brno? That must have been a sight.

 

[Austriantrain]

Do you mean the Graz-Koflicher (spelling?) Eisenbahn?

Köflacher.

 

[leytongabriel]

Do you mean the Graz-Koflicher (spelling?) Eisenbahn? I suspect very few, even in 1972. I visited one Sunday - Monday in August 73 and from memory saw one 52 in steam. That was over a good 30 hours. Vienna - Hohenau was like Clapham Junction in comparson

What was heading the last steam from Wien Ostbahnhof to Brno? That must have been a sight.

Yes the Graz-Koflacher Bahn. I was only there for an afternoon but armed with a booklet about Austrian steam saw one steam-hauled train as I remember it and a couple of engines in steam at the depot. The 'Old Lady' was parked outside still, sadly not running. I don't know what was heading the Ostbahnhof - Brno train I'm afraid. Was 11 at the time and not into the details but it was wonderfully atmospheric and made a big impression on me.

 

[Calthrop]

In 1970, we did a rather rapid call-in at the Graz -- Koeflacher [I can't do umlauts !] on our last afternoon in Austria, prior to overnight train journey to Zagreb. Our understanding -- rightly or wrongly -- was that as of that time, all passenger on this system was diesel (variously railbus / loco-hauled); freight, including staple traffic of coal, was steam. We took an early-evening return run (railbus) to Koeflach. We saw class 56 2-8-0s, then some 50 years old, in motion; and specimens of the class 152 variant of the 52 Kriegslok, not moving but plainly in service; and a couple of "prehistoric" machines "cold" but seemingly operable. For some reason which I can't really pin down, we found the GKB a bit "underwhelming" -- maybe from what we'd heard / read, we'd built up this picture of it as a quite mind-boggling "working museum but for real"; and the actuality felt a bit humdrum. Also, maybe -- with, in so much of our "bash", frantically cramming in more than could properly be crammed in -- we really had very little time decently to do justice to the GKB. And we were perhaps feeling a bit "down", owing to being in our last hours in Austria (so much seen in haste, so much un-done for lack of time) -- eager though we were to move on, and take on Yugoslavia.

 

[Fireless]

OBB steam was "a long time (completely) dying", was it not? -- I seem to have 1976 in mind as the final year, including 93s on the Mistelbach system.

1976 was the final year of regular standard gauge steam, apart from the Erzbergbahn where steam lasted until the end of rack operation in 1978.

Things were a bit different on the narrow gauge side.
The Waldviertelbahn only had sufficient diesels for regular service in 1986 and retained the steam locomotives as spares for the diesels and for working some regular passenger trains at normal fares until 1996 when the passenger trains became heritage services with special fares.

The ÖBB even ordered four brand new steam locomotives for the Schafbergbahn, a meter gauge rack railway, in the early 1990s which should have the honour of being the last new steam locomotives ordered by an european state railway. The line was taken over in 2006 by the Salzburg AG.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Ooooooh! It worked! (I'd never previously posted a photo before in here.) Not an especially good shot, (but hey, there's no chance of any more now). Here's a Class 77 pacific tank - with what looks like a stovepipe-ish chimney - taken in 1973, probably on August 8th or 9th (or a week later - I've lost my records).

EDIT - I've just checked an email from my old pal BB, who tells me I met him at Praterstern on Friday, 17th August. That means this shot was almost certainly on Wednesday 16th, or Thursday 17th.

The train, heading for Retz, is accelerating towards Korneuburg after stopping at Floridsdorf. Looking at the map today, I must have been standing on Wien Bruennerstrasse station. The steam-hauled commuter trains didn't stop at the smaller stations on the electrified network.

Looks like I was using the 200mm lens, on a Canon FTb

 

[52290]

View attachment 107886

Ooooooh! It worked! (I'd never previously posted a photo before in here.) Not an especially good shot, (but hey, there's no chance of any more now). Here's a Class 77 pacific tank - with what looks like a stovepipe-ish chimney - taken in 1973, probably on August 8th or 9th (or a week later - I've lost my records).

EDIT - I've just checked an email from my old pal BB, who tells me I met him at Praterstern on Friday, 17th August. That means this shot was almost certainly on Wednesday 16th, or Thursday 17th.

The train, heading for Retz, is accelerating towards Korneuburg after stopping at Floridsdorf. Looking at the map today, I must have been standing on Wien Bruennerstrasse station. The steam-hauled commuter trains didn't stop at the smaller stations on the electrified network.

Looks like I was using the 200mm lens, on a Canon FTb

That's quite a good photo. When I visited the Vordernberg Rack line in 1970 I was using a Halina 35X with one standard lens. The first photo shows 0-12-0 tank 197.303 assisted by two of the 0-6-2 tanks at the rear. They seemed to be testing the 0-12-0 with some technitions on the footplate. The other photo shows 97.209 with one of the three passenger trains over the line. At Eisenerz the rack loco was,at this time was replaced by a class 086 2-6-2 tank for the run into Hieflau. Not for much longer though, the overhead wires were already installed and awaiting switch on.

 

[Calthrop]

View attachment 107886

Ooooooh! It worked! (I'd never previously posted a photo before in here.) Not an especially good shot, (but hey, there's no chance of any more now). Here's a Class 77 pacific tank - with what looks like a stovepipe-ish chimney - taken in 1973, probably on August 8th or 9th (or a week later - I've lost my records).

EDIT - I've just checked an email from my old pal BB, who tells me I met him at Praterstern on Friday, 17th August. That means this shot was almost certainly on Wednesday 16th, or Thursday 17th.

The train, heading for Retz, is accelerating towards Korneuburg after stopping at Floridsdorf. Looking at the map today, I must have been standing on Wien Bruennerstrasse station. The steam-hauled commuter trains didn't stop at the smaller stations on the electrified network.

Looks like I was using the 200mm lens, on a Canon FTb

A handsome class, for sure. My one and only experience of class 77 on my week's bash in Aug. 1970, was witnessing a 77 hauling a freight through Linz Hbf., at the very beginning of my week (travelled out to Linz from Britain). As mentioned, time for me was very short, and many things had to "give": our time Vienna-based was very brief, and essentially its only rail content was the day on the Mistelbach system. And oh, yes -- one of the three of us was a tram-junkie, and had a knack of getting things to go his way: for the morning on which we left Vienna southbound, he somehow sorted matters so that we did so initially on the Wien -- Baden Lokalbahn long-distance tram route. An hour of for him, presumably, bliss; for the other two of us, frankly, mostly protracted tedium through uninteresting southern Vienna suburbs. At Baden we transferred to the OBB Semmering main line, and proceeded southward.

That's quite a good photo. When I visited the Vordernberg Rack line in 1970 I was using a Halina 35X with one standard lens. The first photo shows 0-12-0 tank 197.303 assisted by two of the 0-6-2 tanks at the rear. They seemed to be testing the 0-12-0 with some technitions on the footplate. The other photo shows 97.209 with one of the three passenger trains over the line. At Eisenerz the rack loco was,at this time was replaced by a class 086 2-6-2 tank for the run into Hieflau. Not for much longer though, the overhead wires were already installed and awaiting switch on.View attachment 107984View attachment 107985

Re the Hieflau -- Eisenerz section: that was our experience too, in August '70 (wires up, but ...). We did the rack line in a one-day visit: "in and out again", from the north; we had an 086 Hieflau -- Eisenerz. Going back the same way later in the day, I very much think that Eisenerz -- Hieflau, we were 52-hauled; but at this distance in time, and with notes taken unfortunately long gone, I can't be 100% sure.

 

[70014IronDuke]

That's quite a good photo. When I visited the Vordernberg Rack line in 1970 I was using a Halina 35X with one standard lens. The first photo shows 0-12-0 tank 197.303 assisted by two of the 0-6-2 tanks at the rear. They seemed to be testing the 0-12-0 with some technitions on the footplate. The other photo shows 97.209 with one of the three passenger trains over the line. At Eisenerz the rack loco was,at this time was replaced by a class 086 2-6-2 tank for the run into Hieflau. Not for much longer though, the overhead wires were already installed and awaiting switch on.View attachment 107984View attachment 107985

I only did Eisernerz once, in September 72 for a day and a half. I remember printing up one acceptable B&W shot of one of the bankers on a road bridge in gloomy weather ..... but alas, where that disappeared in the aeons since I know not. I can't remember getting any decent transparencies from the line. Hell, I must try to find those slides that must be around somewhere.

 

[M&NEJ]

When steam ended in this country my father determined to see what else was left around Europe; so as an impressionable teenager I was taken on caravan holidays to off-the-beaten-track places like Eisenerz. This Christmas I've just been discovering what's out there on YouTube of the 97s and 197s thrashing up the rack with their syncopated exhaust sound!

The iron mountain line has stayed in my blood for life; but another delight of the Austrian scene was the Linz to Summerau (and then Czechoslovakia) line. Climbing around gentle hill-sides it features the large horse-shoe curve below Gaisbach. Father asked a local farmer if we could park the caravan in a field overnight, right at the apex of the horse-shoe - so we spent the night waking up every time a 52 slogged by with a heavy freight for the north. Bliss!

 

[Calthrop]

The iron mountain line has stayed in my blood for life; but another delight of the Austrian scene was the Linz to Summerau (and then Czechoslovakia) line. Climbing around gentle hill-sides it features the large horse-shoe curve below Gaisbach. Father asked a local farmer if we could park the caravan in a field overnight, right at the apex of the horse-shoe - so we spent the night waking up every time a 52 slogged by with a heavy freight for the north. Bliss!

Have heard from a couple of sources, good things about the Linz -- Summerau line (never saw it first hand, with -- as ever -- my single, one week's, visit to the country in steam days). Have the feeling that it tended to be a bit "sold short" as per reports / recommendations in Britain. The late and much-regretted quarterly Continental Railway Journal -- always on the whole good for "gen" re Austria -- seemed in steam days, a bit meagre on info re Linz to Summerau; save for one long, detailed, and highly approving paragraph about the line (including the horse-shoe) in the summer 1973 issue. A bonus about this route, I learn from CRJ, was that at Summerau, CSD steam (class 556 2-10-0 and 475.1 4-8-2) worked across the border from Czechoslovakia; though only on passenger -- CSD freight haulage here, was diesel.

This was another steam delight which Austria featured "back in the day": at assorted points, steam working across the border from the systems of various Communist neighbours: thus making possible photography of the locos therefrom, without the notorious hazards of that activity if attempted on the territory of lands with that form of government. At Gmuend (of the 760mm Engerths), Czechoslovak class 556 2-10-0s worked across the border two or three times a day; while on the route southward from Graz, Yugoslav steam worked cross-border to / from Spielfeld-Strass -- the last station in Austria -- from / to Maribor (Slovenia, Yugoslavia) and points south. There were also places at the "east end" of Austria, to which Hungarian steam plied and could be observed; including on the curiosity which was the Gyor -- Sopron -- Ebenfurth railway -- Hungarian-based, but nonetheless privately owned (!), with trackage in both countries.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

It is publicly owned.

The Raaberbahn or GySEV is a Hungarian-Austrian railway company based in Sopron, Hungary. The company is a joint enterprise of the states of Hungary (65.6%),[1] Austria (28.2%) and a holding belonging to ÖBB Austrian Federal Railways (4.9%). In Hungary it is called Győr-Sopron-Ebenfurti Vasút (GySEV), in German it was called Raab-Oedenburg-Ebenfurther Eisenbahn (ROeEE) until 2008 when it changed to its name to Raaberbahn.

Raaberbahn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cowley]

Fascinating reading through all of this. I wish I’d had the chance to experience some of it…

 

[70014IronDuke]

... while on the route southward from Graz, Yugoslav steam worked cross-border to / from Spielfeld-Strass -- the last station in Austria -- from / to Maribor (Slovenia, Yugoslavia) and points south.

My friend BB's logbook tells us that JZS 06 2-8-2 06 030 hauled us from Spielfeld to Maribor on August 19, 1973. It was a pretty easy run though, loco did not work hard and the train didn't do more than 50-60 kmph from memory. No steam condensation to be seen as it was a blazing hot afternoon. I think if the train went on it was electric from Maribor, but can't be certain.

EDIT - Well, I'm pretty certain it didn't continue with steam!

Later that evening we had a JZ Class 18 (OBB Class 77 pacific tank) some distance up the branch towards Dravograd and back.

There were also places at the "east end" of Austria, to which Hungarian steam plied and could be observed; including on the curiosity which was the Gyor -- Sopron -- Ebenfurth railway -- Hungarian-based, but nonetheless privately owned (!), with trackage in both countries.

There used to be OBB 'corridor' trains from Burgenland through Sopron and out again into Burgenland back in the day. I assume they were very carefully monitored by Hungarian border guards, however. I never tried to catch them, so I assume they must have been DMU units when I was in the area.

I found this record of a (very late) visit to Austria for steam by someone called Keith CHAMBERS (EDIT sorry, I must be going mad - originally I wrote Keith Price) - it's entitled To Austria for a Little Steam, 1976.

To Austria for a Little Steam, 1976

When I read this, I realise how lucky I was to catch what I did in 72-73 - even though it didn't seem much at the time. It feels like visiting Patricroft and Bolton in late July 1968.

 

[Calthrop]

It is publicly owned.

Raaberbahn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I seem to recall reading statements as of 50-odd years ago, to the effect of its then being supposedly "private" -- reconciling that with Communist Hungary seemed difficult, to say the least ! That thing was possibly nonsense; but there was some bizarre stuff in Eastern Europe under such regimes.

My friend BB's logbook tells us that JZS 06 2-8-2 06 030 hauled us from Spielfeld to Maribor on August 19, 1973. It was a pretty easy run though, loco did not work hard and the train didn't do more than 50-60 kmph from memory. No steam condensation to be seen as it was a blazing hot afternoon. I think if the train went on it was electric from Maribor, but can't be certain.

EDIT - Well, I'm pretty certain it didn't continue with steam!

In summer '70, leaving Austria for Yugoslavia, we travelled overnight, boarding international long-distance train at Leibnitz not far north of the border: OBB-diesel-hauled to Spielfeld-Strass; Yugoslav 06 came on there, hauled us to Maribor and then (same loco I think: that class throughout, anyway) through to Zagreb where arrived very early morning. Steam-hauled "under the wires" much of the way east of Zidani Most junction; but there was then an unelectrified gap some of way between there and Zagreb.

There used to be OBB 'corridor' trains from Burgenland through Sopron and out again into Burgenland back in the day. I assume they were very carefully monitored by Hungarian border guards, however. I never tried to catch them, so I assume they must have been DMU units when I was in the area.

Travelling thereon might, one supposes, have given sight of steam action in Hungary en route; but as ever on this whole scene back then -- more potentially to do, than there was time to accomplish all of it !

 

[Austriantrain]

It is publicly owned.

Raaberbahn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am not a railway historian but from what I can gather from what I know and public sources:

The main reason for GySEVs peculiar existence is that the current Austrian Land of Burgenland was historically part of the kingdom of Hungary - in the last decades of Austria-Hungary railways were a „devolved matter“. So originally, it was a Hungarian railway which just crossed a couple of kilometers into Austria at Ebenfurth.

In 1921, Burgenland (minus some important parts, mainly Sopron - historically Ödenburg in German, even though that name is rarely used anymore) came to Austria and GySEV was really bi-national, since of course Austria and Hungary where by then separate countries.

After WW2, GySEV remained a public limited corporation because their Austrian concession was based on this status. However, with collectivization, all shares were owned by the Hungarian state. Austria only acquired part of the shares after the fall of the Iron Curtain.

So even if it was a State Railway, GySEV is remarkable enough since it straddled the Iron Curtain for all of its existence; the line was even electrified cross-border in the 1980s. And „corridor“ operations really where a thing - an ÖBB train would run Wiener Neustadt - Sopron, where a GySEV train from Ebenfurth would arrive at the same time; a passenger coach would be transferred to the ÖBB train and then it would go on towards Deutschkreutz, back in Austria (at later stages, this was a connection instead of direct coaches).

Austrians could travel through Hungary in these trains without border controls, in later years the trains could also be left and boarded in Sopron with checks taking place at the station (just as now - even though Schengen means checks now rarely take place). And at the borders, Hungarian border guards jumped onto the train platforms and remained there until the train left Hungary again, so that no one could jump on it to flee (I did that trip as a kid - rather spooky).

So quite extraordinary.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I am not a railway historian but from what I can gather from what I know and public sources:

The main reason for GySEVs peculiar existence is that the current Austrian Land of Burgenland was historically part of the kingdom of Hungary - in the last decades of Austria-Hungary railways were a „devolved matter“. So originally, it was a Hungarian railway which just crossed a couple of kilometers into Austria at Ebenfurth.

In 1921, Burgenland (minus some important parts, mainly Sopron - historically Ödenburg in German, even though that name is rarely used anymore) came to Austria and GySEV was really bi-national, since of course Austria and Hungary where by then separate countries.

After WW2, GySEV remained a public limited corporation because their Austrian concession was based on this status. However, with collectivization, all shares were owned by the Hungarian state. Austria only acquired part of the shares after the fall of the Iron Curtain.

I thought the Port of Hamburg owned some shares at some stage in the history?

So even if it was a State Railway, GySEV is remarkable enough since it straddled the Iron Curtain for all of its existence; the line was even electrified cross-border in the 1980s. And „corridor“ operations really where a thing - an ÖBB train would run Wiener Neustadt - Sopron, where a GySEV train from Ebenfurth would arrive at the same time; a passenger coach would be transferred to the ÖBB train and then it would go on towards Deutschkreutz, back in Austria (at later stages, this was a connection instead of direct coaches).

Austrians could travel through Hungary in these trains without border controls, in later years the trains could also be left and boarded in Sopron with checks taking place at the station (just as now - even though Schengen means checks now rarely take place). And at the borders, Hungarian border guards jumped onto the train platforms and remained there until the train left Hungary again, so that no one could jump on it to flee (I did that trip as a kid - rather spooky).

So quite extraordinary.

Thanks for the explanation. I now know that Deutschkreutz was south (or even south-east of Sopron) and so it makes sense to go through Sopron to get out again at Deutschkreutz if coming from northern Burgenland.

I have a contact/friend who, at age 12, got out of Hungary illegally in December 1956 at Deutschkreutz (after considerable mess ups in the process) so it was clearly a very sensitive area until 1989.

 

[Austriantrain]

Thanks for the explanation. I now know that Deutschkreutz was south (or even south-east of Sopron) and so it makes sense to go through Sopron to get out again at Deutschkreutz if coming from northern Burgenland.

Sopron was the main town in Burgenland when it was still Hungarian, so it was the railway hub as well. So no way around it when you wanted to go to Deutschkreutz. Indeed, that line, after 1921, did not (and still does not) have a direct connection to the rest of the Austrian network except through Hungary (towards the south, the line used to go on to Szombathely, but this was closed long ago).

Indeed for this reason the short stretch from the border into Deutschkreutz is electrified with 25 kV. The rest of the line was, unfortunately but not surprisingly (the detour via Sopron makes journey times unattractive) closed in stages long ago.