Availability of on-board catering facilities

[gaillark]

Are we likely to return to full on-board catering facilities in the near future specially in First Class?

No incentive currently to return to rail especially trying to restart business travel:
No Pullman dining on GWR or even basic catering on most services, nothing on EMR, a biscuit/crisps on LNER is hardly inspiring.

The railway's message of essential travel only has gone too far (although now dropped) and if things don't get back to normal very soon many customers will desert the railway for good.

 

[DorkingMain]

The railway's message of essential travel only has gone too far (although now dropped) and if things don't get back to normal very soon many customers will desert the railway for good.

This is a little hyperbolic. Full on-board catering isn't used by the majority of passengers, the most they will likely do is wander to the buffet car for a sandwich or a cup of tea.

It's likely it will return when there's sufficient demand for it to do so. Passengers are still *significantly* reduced on most routes and running on-board catering for a select few passengers, with all the additional checks and balances social distancing etc brings probably isn't worth it at this stage.

 

[Sleepy]

For example a Liverpool St. to Norwich peak time service currently has 10-15% of normal passenger numbers (although catering is provided on some trains).

 

[frediculous]

Passengers may also be reluctant to remove their masks and/or touch near their mouth/nose on the train too. Yesterday I did a journey where I normally would have taken my lunch break while travelling but decided against it due to the current situation.

 

[43055]

Are we likely to return to full on-board catering facilities in the near future specially in First Class?

No incentive currently to return to rail especially trying to restart business travel:
No Pullman dining on GWR or even basic catering on most services, nothing on EMR, a biscuit/crisps on LNER is hardly inspiring.

The railway's message of essential travel only has gone too far (although now dropped) and if things don't get back to normal very soon many customers will desert the railway for good.

Looking at the EMR timetables due to start at the weekend and the London timetable mentions that the Standard is temporarily withdrawn but the website states that limited first class offering is being re-introduced.

 

[Tio Terry]

For example a Liverpool St. to Norwich peak time service currently has 10-15% of normal passenger numbers (although catering is provided on some trains).

Many years ago, in BR days, I used to travel from Norwich to Liverpool St on the 06:18 and return most nights on the 17:00. I was covering a job at Liverpool St that nobody wanted, I didn't really want to do it but thinking about my career, I didn't want to refuse. I made it a condition of me doing the job that I could eat breakfast in the morning and dinner on the train in the evening to make sure I had time with my family. It was supposed to be for 6 months but became extended to over a year. I got to know all the restaurant staff very well, they knew what I wanted and served me without asking. Ticket Inspectors ignored me. I have to say the food was excellent!

 

[Taunton]

It's likely it will return when there's sufficient demand for it to do so. Passengers are still *significantly* reduced on most routes and running on-board catering for a select few passengers, with all the additional checks and balances social distancing etc brings probably isn't worth it at this stage.

Meanwhile road traffic out on the motorways and into cities is back to normal volumes. If the railway doesn't go out and not only provide all they used to, but provide extra to get people back, they will quickly lose relevance across the country.

I hear today in news that London Underground is at one-third of former levels. That's not true for car traffic. I haven't used Underground/DLR since March, but now use the car here multiple times a day.

 

[Starmill]

Is Pullman Dining really important right now? An extremely expensive service both to provide and in price terms, used by few customers, and not even exclusive to First Class so probably not bringing in marginal ticket revenue as it does elsewhere.

 

[paul1609]

Meanwhile road traffic out on the motorways and into cities is back to normal volumes. If the railway doesn't go out and not only provide all they used to, but provide extra to get people back, they will quickly lose relevance across the country.

I hear today in news that London Underground is at one-third of former levels. That's not true for car traffic. I haven't used Underground/DLR since March, but now use the car here multiple times a day.

Southerns chief was on Meridian ITV yesterday trying to sell how safe train travel is now. The article said that GTRs passenger figures were now 30% of the pre-covid figures but that their revenue was much worse than that because the travel was all off peak and primarily leisure.
I drove 70 miles along the A27 from Kent this morning congestion seems worse than pre-covid if anything.

 

[Taunton]

If I go in the train I have to wear a mask continuously. That feels unpleasant.

If I go by car I don't. Much nicer. The virus is caught from other people. In my car there aren't any.

The railway really is between a rock and a hard place.

 

[broadgage]

I doubt that catering will return to pre-pandemic levels. BEFORE the pandemic there was a general policy of "what downgrades can we get away with"
For years there has been a steady process of replacing restaurants with buffets, replacing buffets with trolleys, and replacing trolleys with nothing.

The pandemic is a splendid excuse to accelerate this process.

 

[Taunton]

I doubt that catering will return to pre-pandemic levels. BEFORE the pandemic there was a general policy of "what downgrades can we get away with"
For years there has been a steady process of replacing restaurants with buffets, replacing buffets with trolleys, and replacing trolleys with nothing.

The pandemic is a splendid excuse to accelerate this process.

One of the further difficulties is that managements over the years have been those who fixate on cost-cutting, this going right to the top with DfT assessing franchise bids. This was sort of something they could get away with at a time of progressive ridership increase and economic well-being (the same could be said of making an ever increasing proportion of customers stand instead of providing seats, etc). Now the whole economic environment has changed, people have been massively put off rail, and public transport. There just isn't the management skill in place to devise any meaningful overall package to encourage people back. The way they leapt on publicising "key users only" and kept mum when that came off is just one of so many examples.

 

[gaillark]

If I go in the train I have to wear a mask continuously. That feels unpleasant.

If I go by car I don't. Much nicer. The virus is caught from other people. In my car there aren't any.

The railway really is between a rock and a hard place.

Agreed!
The ability to have something decent to eat/drink and work/relax on the move in comfort was the benefit of InterCity travel for the business traveller.
The railway will be loosing atleast 11k in revenue from me alone now and most of that won't be coming back. Many other colleagues that I have been speaking to also are NOT going to be returning to the railway.

The car is much more pleasant in terms of not having to hang around for trains, expensive station car parking prices, poor quality interiors on the 800's and putting up with crowds: And no need for masks which "Taunton" said quite rightly said wearing one feels unpleasant.
I guess that the railway (and people who work within the industry) will soon start to experience cut backs if this situation continues.

Many years ago, in BR days, I used to travel from Norwich to Liverpool St . I got to know all the restaurant staff very well, they knew what I wanted and served me without asking. I have to say the food was excellent!

Yes the restaurant on the Anglia was excellent before being culled by National Express. Had many meals on this route including my kids.
Infact it was this route when I had my first experience of the restaurant car on the railways between Manningtree and Liverpool Street: An excellent Afternoon Tea it was.

 

[Robertj21a]

Are we likely to return to full on-board catering facilities in the near future specially in First Class?

No incentive currently to return to rail especially trying to restart business travel:
No Pullman dining on GWR or even basic catering on most services, nothing on EMR, a biscuit/crisps on LNER is hardly inspiring.

The railway's message of essential travel only has gone too far (although now dropped) and if things don't get back to normal very soon many customers will desert the railway for good.

In terms of the % of the whole business, just how many people used to use full on-board catering facilities ? An incredibly small number ?

Is it really worthwhile bothering to provide such a service when you take into account the full costs of dedicated carriages, dedicated staff, food ordering, waste etc etc ?

 

[irish_rail]

With stations such as Plymouth having zero shops open at present to buy refreshments, the sooner a decent level of catering on trains is restored the better.

 

[dk1]

With stations such as Plymouth having zero shops open at present to buy refreshments, the sooner a decent level of catering on trains is restored the better.

GWR may not have been so far behind with restarting catering if it hadn't been that they opted for the at-seat only offer with the IETs. AWC, LNER, & GA all seem to have been quicker thanks to the proper buffet areas (all called various other daft names but basically buffet counter) from which protection is possible between staff & customers. Not sure IETs offer an area where the trolley can be stowed to serve.

 

[CBlue]

In terms of the % of the whole business, just how many people used to use full on-board catering facilities ? An incredibly small number ?

Is it really worthwhile bothering to provide such a service when you take into account the full costs of dedicated carriages, dedicated staff, food ordering, waste etc etc ?

Indeeed.

Nostalgia tripping about dining cars and catering services that operated at heavy losses won't attract people back.

Convenience / speed of journey and price is more important - hence why HS2's construction officially started today. Speed improvements and electrification are more worthwhile.

 

[route101]

Many years ago, in BR days, I used to travel from Norwich to Liverpool St on the 06:18 and return most nights on the 17:00. I was covering a job at Liverpool St that nobody wanted, I didn't really want to do it but thinking about my career, I didn't want to refuse. I made it a condition of me doing the job that I could eat breakfast in the morning and dinner on the train in the evening to make sure I had time with my family. It was supposed to be for 6 months but became extended to over a year. I got to know all the restaurant staff very well, they knew what I wanted and served me without asking. Ticket Inspectors ignored me. I have to say the food was excellent!

Why would the ticket inspector ignore you?

 

[Jimini]

GWR may not have been so far behind with restarting catering if it hadn't been that they opted for the at-seat only offer with the IETs. AWC, LNER, & GA all seem to have been quicker thanks to the proper buffet areas (all called various other daft names but basically buffet counter) from which protection is possible between staff & customers. Not sure IETs offer an area where the trolley can be stowed to serve.

GWR have had a static trolley service on the last couple of services I've caught. Will check again next week to see if I can get my morning brew!

We went up to the Lake District with AWC last week 1st class and there was all the usual stuff being served up at-seat, including free booze on the weekday service back. Menu here .

 

[jfisher21]

Had a sandwich box in Avanti First Class on Bank Holiday Monday, it seems they are leading the way at bringing catering back!

 

[dk1]

GWR have had a static trolley service on the last couple of services I've caught. Will check again next week to see if I can get my morning brew!

We went up to the Lake District with AWC last week 1st class and there was all the usual stuff being served up at-seat, including free booze on the weekday service back. Menu here .

Excellent to hear mate.

 

[broadgage]

Why would the ticket inspector ignore you?

They often tend to ignore regular customers whom they believe have a valid ticket.

 

[Tio Terry]

Why would the ticket inspector ignore you?

They all knew me, travelling just about every work day you soon got on first name terms with them!

 

[Dave91131]

I travelled on the 0800 KGX-EDB and 1330 EDB-KGX throughout yesterday (mk4 set).

Standard class passengers were invited to visit the buffet car where "a small range of hot and cold drinks, and cold snacks and sandwiches" were available.

First class passengers were invited to visit the trolley at the end of coach M (coach next to DVT) for a similarly limited range of options.

Announcements were made to the effect that no alcohol is being served on any LNER services until further notice due to the pandemic.

On the 1330 EDB-KGX, a prolonged announcement was made by the "senior steward" regarding the importance of social distancing and that further individual announcements would follow calling passengers to the buffet car / trolley coach by coach. Only about half of the train had been given the call up before the announcement came advising that catering would temporarily suspend so a deep clean and stock take could be carried out in readiness for a change of crew at NCL (this announcement came not long after BWK).

 

[Carlisle]

AWC, LNER, & GA all seem to have been quicker thanks to the proper buffet areas (all called various other daft names but basically buffet counter) from which protection is possible between staff & customers. .

Aren’t the Voyager & Meridian buffets too small to enable social distancing, so are likely to remain out of use for the foreseeable future ?

 

[dk1]

Aren’t the Voyager & Meridian buffets too small to enable social distancing, so are likely to remain out of use for the foreseeable future ?

So I hear yes. Pendolinos I don't think ever shut. Hopefully as things become ever more relaxed this will change.

 

[route101]

They all knew me, travelling just about every work day you soon got on first name terms with them!

I see , i thought it was because of you eating.

 

[Purple Orange]

We can’t base decisions on the last 6 months, but we will see how much public demand there is for certain aspects of the service going forward. We will see a return to pre-covid passenger volumes, but certain aspects of the service demand could easily change.

Plus inter city catering on some routes will drastically change in 10 years time. How will London-Birmingham catering differ on a 45 min journey vs current times? What about Brum-Manc/Leeds, which will be a 40 min train compared to current XC services that are 3-4 hours or more?

 

[Robertj21a]

We can’t base decisions on the last 6 months, but we will see how much public demand there is for certain aspects of the service going forward. We will see a return to pre-covid passenger volumes, but certain aspects of the service demand could easily change.

Plus inter city catering on some routes will drastically change in 10 years time. How will London-Birmingham catering differ on a 45 min journey vs current times? What about Brum-Manc/Leeds, which will be a 40 min train compared to current XC services that are 3-4 hours or more?

Why are you sure that there will be a return to pre-Covid passenger volumes ?

 

[dk1]

Why are you sure that there will be a return to pre-Covid passenger volumes ?

I'm sure it will all return & more.