Availability of Travelcards on smartcards

[island]

Mod note: moved from thread TfL proposes to withdraw Day Travelcards

Unfortunately it's very hit and miss whether TOCs will issue Day Travelcards on a smartcard. GWR will only do period Travelcards, and I believe SWR only do Anytime Travelcards.

Southeastern is perfectly content to issue inboundary, outboundary, anytime, or off-peak day Travelcards to its smartcards.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Unfortunately it's very hit and miss whether TOCs will issue Day Travelcards on a smartcard. GWR will only do period Travelcards, and I believe SWR only do Anytime Travelcards.

LNER offer outboundary Travelcards on Smartcards where LNER is the faresetter

 

[Hadders]

LNER offer outboundary Travelcards on Smartcards

But not a Stevenage to London Zones 1-6 Super Off Peak Travelcard with an Annual Gold Card Discount....

 

[Wallsendmag]

But not a Stevenage to London Zones 1-6 Super Off Peak Travelcard with an Annual Gold Card Discount....

That's not a LNER ticket from a LNER station so why whould you think that's anything to do with LNER?

 

[Deerfold]

If people from the home counties drive and still want to reach London they'll probably park near a London Underground station anyway.

Won't they have to drive into London to do that?

That's not a LNER ticket from a LNER station so why whould you think that's anything to do with LNER?

Isn't it valid on LNER?

 

[Hadders]

Isn't it valid on LNER?

Technically it's not but a Network Railcard discounted Stevenage to London Zones 1-6 Super Off Peak Travelcard is.

 

[Deerfold]

Technically it's not but a Network Railcard discounted Stevenage to London Zones 1-6 Super Off Peak Travelcard is.

Thanks.

I thought the idea was that you could put any rail ticket on any TOC's smartcard?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks.

I thought the idea was that you could put any rail ticket on any TOC's smartcard?

That's what people like to think but the reality is completely different.

 

[Haywain]

That's not a LNER ticket from a LNER station so why whould you think that's anything to do with LNER?

Your statement was rather wide ranging.

I thought the idea was that you could put any rail ticket on any TOC's smartcard?

Scotrail excepted, that is the case in theory. The difficulty is being able to make the purchase.

 

[crablab]

The difficulty is being able to make the purchase.

This is definitely my experience. It seems rather arbitrary as to whether a TOC will sell something on smartcard or not? Ticket offices don't seem to be able to do anything more than a TVM in this regard.

Southeastern is perfectly content to issue inboundary, outboundary, anytime, or off-peak day Travelcards to its smartcards.

LNER offer outboundary Travelcards on Smartcards

I think this illustrates my point (GWR and SWR are totally different here)

 

[Wallsendmag]

Your statement was rather wide ranging.

I've updated it

 

[Deerfold]

LNER offer outboundary Travelcards on Smartcards where LNER is the faresetter

But not for tickets valid on their services when they're not the faresetter?

That's nice and confusing.

 

[Haywain]

But not for tickets valid on their services when they're not the faresetter?

Of the two tickets mentioned by @Hadders, one isn't valid on LNER and the other isn't enabled for smartcard fulfilment by the fare setter.

 

[Wallsendmag]

But not for tickets valid on their services when they're not the faresetter?

That's nice and confusing.

You need to understand how the Retail Control Service (RCS) works. Each TOC controls how the flows that it owns can be fulfiilled. So LNER can only fulfil the ticket in question (SVG- Zones 1-6 Super Offpeak Travelcard) in the way that GTR (the flow owner) have set

 

[Starmill]

You need to understand how the Retail Control Service (RCS) works. Each TOC controls how the flows that it owns can be fulfiilled. So LNER can only fulfil the ticket in question (SVG- Zones 1-6 Super Offpeak Travelcard) in the way that GTR (the flow owner) have set

I pointed out to you the other week that LNER will fulfil Stockport to Birkdale to eticket but trainline and Assertis-based sites won't. I don't think RCS has the effect which you think it does.

Won't they have to drive into London to do that?

The bet is that people won't drive within London, or not much at least.

 

[Deerfold]

You need to understand how the Retail Control Service (RCS) works. Each TOC controls how the flows that it owns can be fulfiilled. So LNER can only fulfil the ticket in question (SVG- Zones 1-6 Super Offpeak Travelcard) in the way that GTR (the flow owner) have set

That's not what you said, though.

If you can't put it on the card because it's not enabled for putting on cards, that's annoying, but understandable.

If it's because it's not an LNER-priced flow that seemed to make no sense.

And should passengers really have to understand how the Retail Control Service works?

You're right that TfL's choices could lead to more driving on roads outside of London by people who don't live in London, but that's absolutely nothing to do with them.

If people from the home counties drive and still want to reach London they'll probably park near a London Underground station anyway.

Apologies for not quoting all the relevant parts of your post.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I pointed out to you the other week that LNER will fulfil Stockport to Birkdale to eticket but trainline and Assertis-based sites won't. I don't think RCS has the effect which you think it does.

Trainline don't use RCS. I can assure you I am well aware of what RCS does, having broken it more than anyone else ever.

 

[Haywain]

I pointed out to you the other week that LNER will fulfil Stockport to Birkdale to eticket

As will Trainsplit.

 

[Starmill]

As will Trainsplit.

I specifically didn't reference Trainsplit in my post. However I did check and for me the only option is ToD if you disable splits so...

An Avanti West Coast ticketkeeper device also won't issue it to eticket.

Either way I'd say the principle behind what I was saying is fairly clear cut - which is that guidelines aren't being followed in practice because individual retailers are doing their own thing, even the ones saying they're setting up products or issuing them in a compliant way.

And should passengers really have to understand how the Retail Control Service works?

No. All the end consumer sees is inconsistencies in available fulfilment methods, which seems to me to be precisely the point originally being made.

 

[redreni]

No. All the end consumer sees is inconsistencies in available fulfilment methods, which seems to me to be precisely the point originally being made.

Yes but if some retailers will fulfil the ticket the way the customer wants and others won't, the best solution for passengers would be consistency whereby all of them will issue it, followed by inconsistency, followed lastly by the worst case scenario where none of them will issue it.

 

[Starmill]

Yes but if some retailers will fulfil the ticket the way the customer wants and others won't, the best solution for passengers would be consistency whereby all of them will issue it, followed by inconsistency, followed lastly by the worst case scenario where none of them will issue it.

I think it depends how you look at it. Merseyrail Revenue would likely ask someone with an eticket to pay a Penalty Fare. Obviously that'd be wrong but they would still be likely to do it. What would the passenger think if that happened?

 

[Haywain]

I specifically didn't reference Trainsplit in my post. However I did check and for me the only option is ToD if you disable splits so...

So you'll casually suggest what I'm saying is untrue?

 

[Starmill]

So you'll casually suggest what I'm saying is untrue?
View attachment 139624

Not at all. Could be as simple as because you're using the website and I was using the app.

 

[planetf1]

This irks me too.
Each time we decide to take a leisure trip to London (from Brighton) at the weekend we'll typically have to buy a PAPER travelcard. It's a great price (thameslink only, super off peak, zones 1-6) but it seems to be 50/50 on whether the ticket is still readable by the end of the day (slight exageration perhaps).

If only I could use ANY of
- mobile ticketing (ie on underground/london buses) - QR code
- My existing Thameslink keygo
- Any contactless card
- NFC in iPhone (non-bank)

but I can't
Of course tfl have figured out a fix on Thamelink's behalf - we'll just get rid of travelcards.....
The thameslink tickets seem to appear in brfares as separate smart, but same-price fares as paper option, but no way I know of buying
- not at the station ticket machines
- not in any app I've tried
- not in the ticket office

 

[Wallsendmag]

This irks me too.
Each time we decide to take a leisure trip to London (from Brighton) at the weekend we'll typically have to buy a PAPER travelcard. It's a great price (thameslink only, super off peak, zones 1-6) but it seems to be 50/50 on whether the ticket is still readable by the end of the day (slight exageration perhaps).

If only I could use ANY of
- mobile ticketing (ie on underground/london buses) - QR code
- My existing Thameslink keygo
- Any contactless card
- NFC in iPhone (non-bank)

but I can't
Of course tfl have figured out a fix on Thamelink's behalf - we'll just get rid of travelcards.....
The thameslink tickets seem to appear in brfares as separate smart, but same-price fares as paper option, but no way I know of buying
- not at the station ticket machines
- not in any app I've tried
- not in the ticket office

Have you added a Smartcard to your online account?

 

[Haywain]

Have you added a Smartcard to your online account?

Err... KeyGo?

 

[Wolfie]

Won't they have to drive into London to do that?

Some London Underground (and other TfL) stations are outside London or indeed, in the case of the Watford area, the M25.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Err... KeyGo?

Oops, does it work with a normal GTR Smartcard, never mind just seen it's the Superoffpeak.

 

[MrJeeves]

This irks me too.
Each time we decide to take a leisure trip to London (from Brighton) at the weekend we'll typically have to buy a PAPER travelcard. It's a great price (thameslink only, super off peak, zones 1-6) but it seems to be 50/50 on whether the ticket is still readable by the end of the day (slight exageration perhaps).

If only I could use ANY of
- mobile ticketing (ie on underground/london buses) - QR code
- My existing Thameslink keygo
- Any contactless card
- NFC in iPhone (non-bank)

but I can't
Of course tfl have figured out a fix on Thamelink's behalf - we'll just get rid of travelcards.....
The thameslink tickets seem to appear in brfares as separate smart, but same-price fares as paper option, but no way I know of buying
- not at the station ticket machines
- not in any app I've tried
- not in the ticket office

The lack of super off peak ITSO travelcards is the only annoying thing for me.

 

[planetf1]

Have you added a Smartcard to your online account?

Yes I have. This also also affects ticket office/TVM
After reading some more recent comments, I suspect this is specific to the super off peak thameslink only - not available due to gateline programming?