Avanti Conductor/TM Familiarity with NR C.O.T 14.3

[Shotton]

Hi all.

I will be travelling to London for the day in the near future, due to travelling from and returning to different destinations, the cheapest way I have found to do this seems to be to split using a West Midlands Day Ranger.

The tickets I intend to use are as follows:

West Midlands Day Ranger (http://www.railrover.org/pages/west-midlands-day-ranger.html)
Off-Peak Day Return from Rugby to Milton Keynes Central (MKC) (https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MKC&dest=RUG&rlc=YNG&tkt=CDR)
Super Off Peak Return from Milton Keynes Central (MKC) to Euston (https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MKC&dest=EUS&rlc=YNG&rte=43&tkt=OPR)

As I understand it, to use condition 14.3, the train I use must stop at MKC since the condition only makes reference to chaining a ticket rather than tickets plural, but this will helpful in a sense since I should have no issues at the Euston gateline as I can just show the Euston -> MKC ticket.

In the morning, I will travel from Shrewsbury and the trains I will use will stop at both Rugby and MKC, however I intend to return on https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L33629/2023-09-16/detailed which stops at MKC, Nuneaton and Crewe, taking advantage of condition 14.3 to travel to Crewe.

Does anyone have experience with splitting in this way on Avanti? Is the conductor/TM likely to be familiar with such a split, and if not, will showing the relevant NR C.O.T be sufficient enough to diffuse any conflict?

Thanks.

 

[AJDesiro]

As a Rugby resident myself, I often split tickets to london, using a similar method, as it saves a ton of money. I've used split tickets a multitude of times, often incorporating rangers/rovers. It shouldn't be an issue with the TM, and I've never had one with them in similar circumstances. As long as your service calls at MK and Rugby (and isn't pick up/set down only at either station, there are a few services, especially the Manchester's at peak), there should't be an issue.

If you're intending to travel to Shrewsbury from Crewe on your return, not that you will have to get a train to Wolverhampton and change there for a Shrewsbury service. West Midlands Day Ranger's are not allowed on the Marches line.

 

[Shotton]

As a Rugby resident myself, I often split tickets to london, using a similar method, as it saves a ton of money. I've used split tickets a multitude of times, often incorporating rangers/rovers. It shouldn't be an issue with the TM, and I've never had one with them in similar circumstances. As long as your service calls at MK and Rugby (and isn't pick up/set down only at either station, there are a few services, especially the Manchester's at peak), there should't be an issue.

If you're intending to travel to Shrewsbury from Crewe on your return, not that you will have to get a train to Wolverhampton and change there for a Shrewsbury service. West Midlands Day Ranger's are not allowed on the Marches line.

Thank you for your response - I'm aware of the restrictions on the ranger, will be travelling home from Crewe rather than back to Shrewsbury.

My concern however is, I was hoping to take advantage of condition 14.3 in the conditions of travel, that being:

14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.

(bold taken direct from the conditions of travel document)

To travel on a return train that does call at MKC, but not Rugby, I have seen people use split tickets as you mention on Avanti without issue, but never someone taking advantage of this specific condition which seems potentially more obscure.

 

[30907]

14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.

You are perfectly in order, and I would expect Avanti OBS to be familiar with this - maybe more in connection with seasons than rovers.

Worst case is that you pay an extra fare demanded and submit a complaint.

 

[MrJeeves]

Does anyone have experience with splitting in this way on Avanti? Is the conductor/TM likely to be familiar with such a split, and if not, will showing the relevant NR C.O.T be sufficient enough to diffuse any conflict?

I would imagine no issues on board.

If the return service doesn't call at MKC Rugby, I would imagine the Euston mafia would need some convincing to let you through.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

If the return service doesn't call at MKC, I would imagine the Euston mafia would need some convincing to let you through.

If the return service doesn't stop at MKC, the OP's proposed split wouldn't be valid.

 

[MrJeeves]

If the return service doesn't stop at MKC, the OP's proposed split wouldn't be valid.

Already mentioned above but it would as it's being combined with a zonal/area ticket, in this case a WM Day Ranger.

 

[Class800]

I can't see likely issues onboard, I'd say Euston gateline at least 50% likely to be an issue if your split point isn't at a calling station - although a non-split stop on a ranger or season is valid.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

it's being combined with a zonal/area ticket, in this case a WM Day Ranger

The OP's proposed split at MKC is with two point-to-point tickets. Are you saying that the split at Rugby, between a point-to-point ticket and the Ranger engages 14.3 for the entire journey including other split points?

 

[MrJeeves]

The OP's proposed split at MKC is with two point-to-point tickets. Are you saying that the split at Rugby, between a point-to-point ticket and the Ranger engages 14.3 for the entire journey including other split points?

Ah, sorry, I meant if the train didn't stop at Rugby!

 

[HurdyGurdy]

No problem. The OP's plan is to catch a train which does stop at MKC but doesn't stop at Rugby. I would expect the train manager to know that the proposed splits and Ranger combo is valid for the journey to Crewe and for the Euston gateline to be unconcerned by the return half of a MKC - Euston ticket being presented for boarding a train which actually calls at MKC.

But it's the railway, so no guarantees.

 

[island]

You are perfectly in order, and I would expect Avanti OBS to be familiar with this - maybe more in connection with seasons than rovers.

Avanti does not have on-board supervisors, only train managers (guards).

Worst case is that you pay an extra fare demanded and submit a complaint.

Agreed.

 

[Shotton]

Thank you everyone for your responses - it is a fairly significant saving on any other combinations I could find which would let me use Avanti, so I will attempt to use it.

Hopefully the TM will be familiar with such splits, and glad to have not heard any horror stories - worst case I will just have to pay what is demanded and attempt to reclaim it from Avanti. Will update everyone after I have travelled...

 

[Shotton]

To update, I actually ended up arriving at Euston in time for the 17:47 (Called Rugby and MKC), and travelled to Crewe via Stoke on Trent.

My tickets were not actually checked, aside from at Euston, but wouldn't have expected any issues anyway.

Additionally... Amazing last few minutes at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, so a rollercoaster of emotions well worth the trip

 

[RJ]

It’s only a tiny minority of staff who challenge valid ticketing arrangements and you have to be quite unlucky to encounter one of them. Nothing to worry about!