Avanti Ticket Checks

[Bletchleyite]

No ticket check will ever be 100% secure. A balance has to be struck between revenue loss, staff time taken to undertake the check and passenger inconvenience. As a passenger I wouldn’t take kindly to a ticket check at the Euston barrier only for another check before Rugby just in case someone had boarded at Cheddington and changed into an Avanti train at Milton Keynes, especially if this was to happen frequently.

What you tend to find with Avanti is that most staff won't bother checking if you've boarded at a gated station (e.g. Euston, MKC) because that's a double check anyway, other than a tiny amount of leakiness as you mention or the odd person on the wrong train (which at MKC is fairly unlikely because it's one an hour to each of three destinations). In those cases 1st and SP will be checked as a priority as a gateline won't check that.

 

[Benjwri]

No ticket check will ever be 100% secure. A balance has to be struck between revenue loss, staff time taken to undertake the check and passenger inconvenience. As a passenger I wouldn’t take kindly to a ticket check at the Euston barrier only for another check before Rugby just in case someone had boarded at Cheddington and changed into an Avanti train at Milton Keynes, especially if this was to happen frequently.

And yet this is frequent on the GWML? Trains from Bristol to London stop at only barriered stations, yet I’ve never not had my ticket checked

 

[Hadders]

And yet this is frequent on the GWML? Trains from Bristol to London stop at only barriered stations, yet I’ve never not had my ticket checked

At Euston Avanti carry out manual checks before you can board the train. GWR don’t do this at Paddington.

 

[JamieL]

At Euston Avanti carry out manual checks before you can board the train. GWR don’t do this at Paddington.

Very rarely in my experience. Moreover, checks at the gates on the platforms don't ensure people sit in the right class coach.

 

[Hadders]

Very rarely in my experience. Moreover, checks at the gates on the platforms don't ensure people sit in the right class coach.

Avanti almost always check tickets before boarding at Euston.

 

[VideozVideoz]

No ticket check will ever be 100% secure. A balance has to be struck between revenue loss, staff time taken to undertake the check and passenger inconvenience. As a passenger I wouldn’t take kindly to a ticket check at the Euston barrier only for another check before Rugby just in case someone had boarded at Cheddington and changed into an Avanti train at Milton Keynes, especially if this was to happen frequently.

Frequently, I’ve been on a train where I’ve boarded at a station with ticket barriers and then the conductor comes straight down to check the tickets. Is there really much of a point?

 

[Kite159]

Very rarely in my experience. Moreover, checks at the gates on the platforms don't ensure people sit in the right class coach.

Nor do they ensure someone doesn't remain on board after the station they held a ticket to.

For example someone holding a London - Milton Keynes ticket and staying on after the Milton Keynes, buying a cheap ticket to exit the station where they alight if that station has barriers

Frequently, I’ve been on a train where I’ve boarded at a station with ticket barriers and then the conductor comes straight down to check the tickets. Is there really much of a point?

Barriers will say a ticket is valid at that particular station, what they don't say if that ticket is valid for the train you board. I.e. a ticket to Duddeston will quite happily open the barriers at Birmingham New Street. Won't stop someone boarding a service for Bromsgrove.

 

[RPI]

Frequently, I’ve been on a train where I’ve boarded at a station with ticket barriers and then the conductor comes straight down to check the tickets. Is there really much of a point?

Errrrm yes.... someone at Plymouth can buy a single to Devonport to get through the gates but then attempt to travel to London.....

 

[VideozVideoz]

Errrrm yes.... someone at Plymouth can buy a single to Devonport to get through the gates but then attempt to travel to London.....

That’s not going to be the majority of the passengers though. Plus, the conductor invariably is not going to remember where every person’s ticket is valid to so that Devonport ticket would likely get anyway with it anyway

 

[RPI]

That’s not going to be the majority of the passengers though. Plus, the conductor invariably is not going to remember where every person’s ticket is valid to so that Devonport ticket would likely get anyway with it anyway

Well not really, if you're working a Plymouth to Paddington service that's next stop Totnes then the said person will either produce the Devonport ticket or produce no ticket (Devonport is the other way), there's also checking railcards, checking 1st class, adult on child, advance tickets on the right train.... the list goes on.

A ticket check should be done after every station regardless of what facilities exist at the last station.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Well not really, if you're working a Plymouth to Paddington service that's next stop Totnes then the said person will either produce the Devonport ticket or produce no ticket (Devonport is the other way), there's also checking railcards, checking 1st class, adult on child, advance tickets on the right train.... the list goes on.

A ticket check should be done after every station regardless of what facilities exist at the last station.

I don’t think people would really buy a Devonport ticket and board a train going the other way?? Most barriers are setup so they don’t let you through on a child or railcard ticket without a manual check

 

[RPI]

I don’t think people would really buy a Devonport ticket and board a train going the other way?? Most barriers are setup so they don’t let you through on a child or railcard ticket without a manual check

Trust me they would.... and do.... and the railcard/child lock on gatelines is optional and generally only used when there is a block on.

 

[Skymonster]

A ticket check should be done after every station regardless of what facilities exist at the last station.

I’m not convinced even the best RPI can remember which customer’s tickets they’ve checked and which they haven’t over a long journey - or who got on at each stop. How often / how many times can customers be asked to show their tickets before it becomes irksome?

I recall being asked for a ticket four times between Sheffield and Scarborough on one occasion, and by the forth request I was getting a bit fed up with it. I don’t mind being checked at the gate line, and once while onboard, but more than that seems over zealous to me.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A ticket check should be done after every station regardless of what facilities exist at the last station.

Would certainly soon get tedious on a through journey such as Manchester Piccadilly -> Tenby with TfW which has some 30+ intermediate station calls.

 

[subk2010]

I get checked every time I ride on an Avant service, sometimes even twice!
Probably because I usually sit in Coach C?

 

[RPI]

Would certainly soon get tedious on a through journey such as Manchester Piccadilly -> Tenby with TfW which has some 30+ intermediate station calls.

I very much doubt one guard works that all the way! I regularly work Exmouth to Paignton and go through after every stop, which is 20 stops, sometimes 2 or 3 times in succession

 

[Skymonster]

I very much doubt one guard works that all the way! I regularly work Exmouth to Paignton and go through after every stop, which is 20 stops, sometimes 2 or 3 times in succession

So do you really note and remember everyone who boarded at each call and just approach them (and could you do that with an 11 car train - this was, after all, originally about Avanti), or do the poor sods who travel all the way have to produce their ticket 20 times? Or do you rely on the “tickets from X please” approach, which to me has always seemed pointless as anyone intent on avoiding paying won’t volunteer that.

 

[Birmingham]

So do you really note and remember everyone who boarded at each call and just approach them (and could you do that with an 11 car train - this was, after all, originally about Avanti), or do the poor sods who travel all the way have to produce their ticket 20 times?

Some staff are remarkably good at approaching only those who have boarded since their last ticket check. You can tell when someone is good at and enjoys their job!

Or do you rely on the “tickets from X please” approach, which to me has always seemed pointless as anyone intent on avoiding paying won’t volunteer that.

Or indeed passengers with perfectly valid tickets, as if they don’t care then why should I?

 

[route101]

Almost always get checked after Motherwell when leaving Glasgow. Preston to Glasgow is a different story, not often you get checked.

They often check the tickets before boarding at Glasgow Central.

 

[tspaul26]

Interesting experience this evening:

• Manual check prior to boarding at Euston
• Four people in front of me turned away for various reasons: advance ticket for train an hour before; advance ticket for train an hour later; off Peak ticket not valid; and London Northwestern Railway only ticket.
• No onboard checks at all between Euston and Warrington where I alighted.

 

[Jimini]

Interesting experience this evening:

• Manual check prior to boarding at Euston
• Four people in front of me turned away for various reasons: advance ticket for train an hour before; advance ticket for train an hour later; off Peak ticket not valid; and London Northwestern Railway only ticket.
• No onboard checks at all between Euston and Warrington where I alighted.

Sounds pretty standard to me, to be honest. What was the first stop after Euston?

 

[VideozVideoz]

Sounds pretty standard to me, to be honest. What was the first stop after Euston?

Could have been warrington??

 

[Jimini]

Could have been warrington??

I did wonder, looking at the 1830 as one example which is non-stop.

 

[185]

The gaps in the ticket barrier checking should be plugged.

Open stations, like Nuneaton, Stafford, Liverpool, Runcorn, Tamworth and especially Euston need fulltime (6am-10pm), 100% revenue checks, which would be self funding.

Use people, not expensive gates.

Also stations with 'Fair weather' (£5million) gatelines only on for several minutes at a time need to be sorted out, and properly staffed.

 

[Bungle965]

Also stations with 'Fair weather' (£5million) gatelines only on for several minutes at a time need to be sorted out, and properly staffed.

Gateline performance on AWC has significantly improved over the last few months.
This is certainly a change than what it was under Virgin & the start of the AWC franchise.

 

[tspaul26]

Sounds pretty standard to me, to be honest. What was the first stop after Euston?

Coventry

 

[RPI]

So do you really note and remember everyone who boarded at each call and just approach them (and could you do that with an 11 car train - this was, after all, originally about Avanti), or do the poor sods who travel all the way have to produce their ticket 20 times? Or do you rely on the “tickets from X please” approach, which to me has always seemed pointless as anyone intent on avoiding paying won’t volunteer that.

Strangely enough, after doing the job for 20 years I personally have my own routine and system for checking tickets, which does involve going through after every stop where I can, it actually becomes quite easy to spot those who have just got on, is it infallible? No, is it pretty much effective? Yes.

You learn little things, you learn to read body language, you learn what coffee cups are from where, what part of the train people from certain stops get into and I look out at every station to get an idea of who gets on, I must be pretty effective as my sales/interactions/ticket scans are all as expected and I can't remember the last time I had a complaint that I've had to explain

 

[Skiddaw]

Strangely enough, after doing the job for 20 years I personally have my own routine and system for checking tickets, which does involve going through after every stop where I can, it actually becomes quite easy to spot those who have just got on, is it infallible? No, is it pretty much effective? Yes.

You learn little things, you learn to read body language, you learn what coffee cups are from where, what part of the train people from certain stops get into and I look out at every station to get an idea of who gets on, I must be pretty effective as my sales/interactions/ticket scans are all as expected and I can't remember the last time I had a complaint that I've had to explain

I always think it's really clever when train staff do that. I've yet to be asked to produce my ticket twice. I always wonder how it's done. It's like a train version of The Knowledge.

 

[sheff1]

Frequently, I’ve been on a train where I’ve boarded at a station with ticket barriers and then the conductor comes straight down to check the tickets. Is there really much of a point?

Yesterday there was a ticket check after Leicester (barried) on a non-stop to London. The person on the other side of the aisle asked for a single to London from Leicester. No comment from the conductor; the profferred card was declined; conductor said sort it out at London; when the gates were closed at St Pancras the passenger took out their phone, presumably bought a ticket from some nearby station and exited without problem, probably having entered at Leicester with a local ticket if the barriers were in use. So little point at all.

Returning today, check straight out of St Pancras (barriered); I showed my paper Advance; no check of either the time of my booked train or railcard; again an exercise of limited point in my view. Either check properly or not at all

Most barriers are setup so they don’t let you through on a child or railcard ticket without a manual check

Not in my experience, on the occasions my ticket has been rejected by a barrier I don't recall ever being asked for a railcard. In many cases they don't even look at the ticket, just open the gate.

 

[alastair]

I don’t think people would really buy a Devonport ticket and board a train going the other way?? Most barriers are setup so they don’t let you through on a child or railcard ticket without a manual check

Really? I cannot recall a single time (out of many dozens) I have been asked to show my (senior) railcard at any barrier.