Avanti WC down the pan again

[TPO]

But do any of the DfT civil servants understand what's being said here and some of the other posts above? I assume all those who transferred from the SRA have long ago left or retired. Civil Servants are, almost by definition, non-specialists. Same goes for the Treasury. All they see is the need to reduce costs without understanding why they are so high.

This. Absolutely.

The railway needs to be run as a longterm transport system managed by public sector domain specialists (preferably Including railway operators who rose through the ranks) NOT the Oxbridge/arts degree/economics civil service generalists.

The BR Management training and Apprenticeships also need bringing back (properly). They were recognised as being excellent in their day, and its only thanks to the solid foundation they formed that the fragmented railway has lasted as long as it has.

 TPO

 

[WAB]

The BR Management training and Apprenticeships also need bringing back (properly). They were recognised as being excellent in their day, and its only thanks to the solid foundation they formed that the fragmented railway has lasted as long as it has.

What differentiates the BR Management training and Apprenticeships from today's Network Rail graduate schemes and apprenticeships?

Also worth noting that the last of the ex-BR management trainees will be on their way out in the next few years...

 

[Krokodil]

What differentiates the BR Management training and Apprenticeships from today's Network Rail graduate schemes and apprenticeships?

Network Rail manages infrastructure. BR managed the whole railway.

 

[Sealink]

390 156 by the looks of RTT, should've been on its way to Oxley Depot (where it started this morning) after terminating in Birmingham. Wonder where it's going to go or will it just be left in platform overnight?

What happens if you are booked on that train, and have no where to stay and no money for a last minute hotel?

 

[Carlisle]

At one point the current AWC Edinburgh depot, used to work VXC services down the east coast as far as Leeds, west coast to Preston, and up to Aberdeen before virgin lost XC and the staff split between XC and Virgin west coast And the Manchester services went to Transpennine. Now retaining only Edinburgh/Glasgow - Preston. A lot more productive back then, I imagine.

The above arrangement wasn’t a panacea as Edinburgh was the only XC train crew depot in Scotland. As @jayah suggested Inter City services appeared to be at their most efficient crew wise either under the traditional BR model or at least when the IC sector was a single national operator.

 

[12LDA28C]

What happens if you are booked on that train, and have no where to stay and no money for a last minute hotel?

Huh?

 

[Palmyra.]

I am on Avanti from Glasgow to London at the moment and they are saying there is a points failure at Oxenholme. Limited updates or information.

What exactly is a points failure and what will happen here if the train is cancelled. I don’t see how they can get us to London with it being so far if the trains can’t go past the remainder of the day.

 

[dk1]

I am on Avanti from Glasgow to London at the moment and they are saying there is a points failure at Oxenholme. Limited updates or information.

What exactly is a points failure and what will happen here if the train is cancelled. I don’t see how they can get us to London with it being so far if the trains can’t go past the remainder of the day.

Won’t it just be waiting for Network Rail staff (S&T) to attend?

 

[Palmyra.]

Won’t it just be waiting for Network Rail staff (S&T) to attend?

I am not sure they haven’t given that information I am not even familiar with what a points failure is which is why I had posted

 

[dk1]

I am not sure they haven’t given that information I am not even familiar with what a points failure is which is why I had posted

It’s just a crossover that moves trains from one track to another. Usually rectified fairly quickly once staff arrive but all depends on how far away they are.

You’ll just have to sit tight & listen to onboard announcements.

 

[Palmyra.]

It’s just a crossover that moves trains from one track to another. Usually rectified fairly quickly once staff arrive but all depends on how far away they are.

You’ll just have to sit tight & listen to onboard announcements.

Ok thanks

Assume it will be another free train journey for me, don’t know how this company ever makes money with the constant delay repays

 

[dk1]

Ok thanks

Assume it will be another free train journey for me, don’t know how this company ever makes money with the constant delay repays

Go get yourself a beer or three

DfTs daft idea to offer so much delay repay so let them deal with it.

Also Network Rails fault so Avanti will be fully compensated.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I am on Avanti from Glasgow to London at the moment and they are saying there is a points failure at Oxenholme. Limited updates or information.

Was this the 1732 departure from Glasgow Central? Looks to be back on the move again, but running some 45 minutes down, so, if that's the one, you can expect to be in London for maybe 2309 (rather than 2227).

 

[GordonT]

Currently appears to be delaying all southbound services in turn at Oxenholme by about half an hour.

 

[Palmyra.]

Still on it now been a very long journey starting to lose my mind almost there

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Still on it now been a very long journey starting to lose my mind almost there

Not good. A five hours journey becomes a five-and-three -quarters hours journey. And not even the consolation of 60+ minutes 'Delay Repay' on this particular occasion.

 

[frodshamfella]

Not long left Euston 15.43 to Liverpool, I luckily noticed the train I was booked on an hour later is cancelled, so taking this earlier one. Which is packed, and only 9 carriages.

 

[Merseysider]

I luckily noticed the train I was booked on an hour later is cancelled

You didn’t actually expect to have a hassle-free journey did you?

This one seems to be down to a power failure somewhere so might not be Avanti’s fault but NR’s instead - still, WCML journeys are a lottery at the moment.

 

[Chingy]

Not long left Euston 15.43 to Liverpool, I luckily noticed the train I was booked on an hour later is cancelled, so taking this earlier one. Which is packed, and only 9 carriages.

“Only 9 carriages”! Don’t ever attempt to travel on the Bristol - Southampton corridor then.

 

[Krokodil]

“Only 9 carriages”! Don’t ever attempt to travel on the Bristol - Southampton corridor then.

As he lives in an area served by TfW I'm sure that he's more than used to wedging in on a two-car unit. Having experience of both, TfW overcrowding can be far worse. Even so, trying to pack up to 22 carriages worth of people into one nine car set isn't going to be pleasant.

 

[GordonT]

You would almost think that as soon as the ink was dry on AWC (First Group)'s contract extension for good behaviour things reverted back to "normal" once again.

 

[Boodiggy]

You didn’t actually expect to have a hassle-free journey did you?

This one seems to be down to a power failure somewhere so might not be Avanti’s fault but NR’s instead - still, WCML journeys are a lottery at the moment.

Happened north of Hanslope Jn affecting all four lines…

 

[frodshamfella]

As he lives in an area served by TfW I'm sure that he's more than used to wedging in on a two-car unit. Having experience of both, TfW overcrowding can be far worse. Even so, trying to pack up to 22 carriages worth of people into one nine car set isn't going to be pleasant.

I'm very familiar to 2 car ops , living in Cheshire, as you say.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Not long left Euston 15.43 to Liverpool, I luckily noticed the train I was booked on an hour later is cancelled, so taking this earlier one. Which is packed, and only 9 carriages.

I wonder why all the Pendo didn't get extended to 10-car, with a few (but less) as 11-car? I'd rather see a few fewer 11-car, but no more 9-car. It's not so bad now 1 more carriage has been converted from First to Standard, but it's still a bit unbearable when a service has been cancelled.

 

[frodshamfella]

I wonder why all the Pendo didn't get extended to 10-car, with a few (but less) as 11-car? I'd rather see a few fewer 11-car, but no more 9-car. It's not so bad now 1 more carriage has been converted from First to Standard, but it's still a bit unbearable when a service has been cancelled.

and Liverpool route is still only hourly..

 

[Krokodil]

Out of curiosity was there any technical reason (e.g. stations that would be impossible to accommodate 11 car sets) why the whole fleet wasn't lengthened to 11 cars? Or was it purely a question of funding?

 

[jfollows]

Out of curiosity was there any technical reason (e.g. stations that would be impossible to accommodate 11 car sets) why the whole fleet wasn't lengthened to 11 cars? Or was it purely a question of funding?

Just funding I think.

 

[david l]

Out of curiosity was there any technical reason (e.g. stations that would be impossible to accommodate 11 car sets) why the whole fleet wasn't lengthened to 11 cars? Or was it purely a question of funding?

Funding................ surprise, surprise.

 

[Watershed]

Out of curiosity was there any technical reason (e.g. stations that would be impossible to accommodate 11 car sets) why the whole fleet wasn't lengthened to 11 cars? Or was it purely a question of funding?

Funding, as is always the way in railways. IIRC there was a rather expensive scheme to lengthen platforms at certain stations to accommodate all 11 coaches.

Only a handful of stations that Avanti call at haven't been extended - AFAIK just the Styal line platforms at Wilmslow (used by Avanti once in a blue moon) and Haymarket (which is impossible to extend further since you have the tunnels at the east end and Haymarket East Jn at the west end).

 

[nwales58]

Network Rail manages infrastructure. BR managed the whole railway.

Spot on. It produced *rail* generalists notwithstanding whether they started as engineers or commercial types.

Also worth noting that the last of the ex-BR management trainees will be on their way out in the next few years...

Which is the biggest obstacle to anything improving dramatically any time soon.

The right people with a whole system view probably no longer exist in any number.

'Follow the contract' and commercial incentives are so ingrained into everyone since 1996 (plus post-Railtrack risk aversion) that it is hard to think differently.

Even if there was a younger Adrian Shooter he/she would have no experience of formulating massive decisions, taking them and delegating to make them work (and learn from the failures). And it needs dozens of such people to make anything work.

The same has become true of the consultancies that fill the skills gaps, younger generations seem slavishly to do what each little contract requires without the curiosity or incentive to query whether the terms of reference are coherent or asking the right questions (I'm retired so of course I would think that, wouldn't I). Broad generalisation - high ups in civils consultancies now seem to be youngish MBAs without much sector expertise.

Funding................ surprise, surprise.

Which is why we needed precisely 567 Pendolinos, not 55 nor 60, to get us through another 25 years.