Avanti website does not apply Group Discounts so overcharges

[Geezertronic]

I booked tickets for three adults from Marston Green to Stoke-on-Trent for Saturday 12th February and the Avanti website quoted me £72.30 which I blindly paid (open return) - I only ordered via the Avanti website because I collect Necter points. A bit later on, I found out that I could have purchased the tickets cheaper via any other operator as the other operators applied a group discount to their price meaning it would have been £47.70. As per the details on the Avanti Price Promise guarantee website, I took screenshots of the TrainLine, London North Western Railway, and Cross Country websites that showed this journey being £47.70 for three adults rather than £72.30 and immediately submitted this to Avanti - even though their "Make a Claim" link on their Price Promise guarantee webpage points to an invalid email address, I was able to resend using the correct email address (the link misses the final "s" from relations).

They are taking their time to issue the credit, their first response was a generic email saying they apologise for price rises (which this is not) and they declined the credit. I replied and they have till 7th March (28 days from date of claim) to respond so I am not going to the Rail Ombudsman yet, but I have a similar trip to book on Saturday 19th March and again the Avanti website is quoting £75 whereas the other operators are quoting £49.50 for the same journey.

Does anyone know why the Avanti website appears to deliberately overcharge customers for Group trips when others do not?

Price Promise | Cheap Train Tickets | Avanti West Coast

Our price guarantee promises that you get the cheapest train tickets when you book directly with Avanti West Coast. Find out more online today.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

GroupSave is one of those TOC specific offerings which in my understanding doesn't have to be offered by all sales websites. If you used Avanti in your journey it was not valid at all.

Avanti do have their own (derisory) group discount, which is only valid on their trains (and so your connection to LNR wouldn't trigger this).

If you want a TOC specific offer you're better booking with that TOC. If using another site for e.g. Nectar points it's best to check carefully before buying.

FWIW the price promise seems to be pretty limited:

To be eligible for a Price Promise guarantee refund, you must supply sufficient evidence of the payment stage of the website where you found the ticket at a lower price, showing the identical ticket type, origin, destination, routing, class, number of passengers, Railcards, date and time, and fulfilment type. Associated fees must also be shown. Evidence must show that the lower online fare was found within 24 hours of the avantiwestcoast.co.uk or Avanti West Coast app booking.

I'm not sure "not offering GroupSave" would actually be entitled under that.

 

[[.n]]

GroupSave is one of those TOC specific offerings which in my understanding doesn't have to be offered by all sales websites. If you used Avanti in your journey it was not valid at all.

this page https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/pr354fdc0a0400020101fea1769fbf60.aspx shows it as an "Ordinary Promotion" whatever that means - but the linked T&C's do contain

14. GroupSave discount may not be available through all retail channels. If GroupSave is not offered, see www.nationalrail.co.uk or speak to a member of rail staff

 

[Trackman]

@Geezertronic
Avanti say:

If you're travelling in a group of 3 - 9 then you can book with our group travel discount via our booking engine. Just simply select how many people you're travelling with and if it's between 3 and 9 then you'll automatically get the discount applied.

Did you book all 3 tickets at once? Might be in with a shout.

 

[AlterEgo]

@Geezertronic
Avanti say:

Did you book all 3 tickets at once? Might be in with a shout.

They refer to "our" group discount, and the group discount in question is not Avanti's and not available on their site.

Unfortunately it will likely be outside the Price Promise, too, for the reasons @Bletchleyite gives.

 

[Trackman]

They refer to "our" group discount, and the group discount in question is not Avanti's and not available on their site.

Unfortunately it will likely be outside the Price Promise, too, for the reasons @Bletchleyite gives.

Yes, it is unfortunately looking glum.
I wonder if they did receive the 'Avanti' group discount if bought three at same time? (as per the quote on my previous post)

 

[Starmill]

I'm not sure "not offering GroupSave" would actually be entitled under that.

Why not?

The OP suggests, although doesn't state explicitly, that they looked at the same travel itinerary on trainline and it offered a group discounted set of tickets. If that's the case, then all of those conditions listed (and presumably bolded by you) would be met.

Could the OP please confirm that it was the same date and times on trainline as to what they actually booked?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it is unfortunately looking glum.
I wonder if they did receive the 'Avanti' group discount if bought three at same time? (as per the quote on my previous post)

The Avanti product requires all travel to be on Avanti. Marston Green isn't served by Avanti, so it would not be eligible.

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if they did receive the 'Avanti' group discount if bought three at same time? (as per the quote on my previous post)

An Avanti group discount would not be valid on trains where a GroupSave discount would be valid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An Avanti group discount would not be valid on trains where a GroupSave discount would be valid.

I think we need to know the itinerary the OP booked. If it included both Avanti and LNR trains, then neither would be applicable. It's possible that the other planners produced a different itinerary or incorrectly applied the discount.

(Is this inconsistency stupid? Yes, particularly as GWR, another FirstGroup TOC, allows proper GroupSave, but we are where we are...)

 

[Starmill]

I think we need to know the itinerary the OP booked.

I agree, we can't really make any of these conclusions unless the OP is able to add this info

 

[Trackman]

The Avanti product requires all travel to be on Avanti. Marston Green isn't served by Avanti, so it would not be eligible.

I'll leave it here. But what I have found out (going slightly OT) that the Avanti discount is only available on certain journeys with Avanti, it's not a blanket thing on all Avanti trains.

 

[Geezertronic]

For info, I booked for three adults to travel on Saturday 12th February catching the 0847 from Marston Green arriving in Stoke-on-Trent (with a change at New Street) at 1012 (Open Return). The Avanti price I paid was £72.30 whereas Trainline, LNWR and XC were offering the same tickets for the same service at the same date/time for £47.70.

Cancelling the tickets with Avanti was not an option as I would have had to pay £30 cancellation fee.

Incidentally I am planning the same trip for Saturday 19th March catching the 0847 arriving at Stoke at 1012 (Open Return) and the Avanti website quotes £75.00 whereas Trainline, LNWR and XC all quote £49.50 with the GroupSave discount applied

 

[Bletchleyite]

So this is a fully WMT (LNR) journey. I would buy that on their website to get their GroupSave discount. Avanti's awful website only does their own group discount when applicable.

 

[Haywain]

As you can demonstrate that they are not applying the GroupSave discount correctly, I think you should complain and ask to be refunded the difference. A simple screenshot shows the error, stating that the discount is applied when it isn't:

 

[yorkie]

I booked tickets for three adults from Marston Green to Stoke-on-Trent for Saturday 12th February and the Avanti website quoted me £72.30 which I blindly paid (open return) - I only ordered via the Avanti website because I collect Necter points. A bit later on, I found out that I could have purchased the tickets cheaper via any other operator as the other operators applied a group discount to their price meaning it would have been £47.70. As per the details on the Avanti Price Promise guarantee website, I took screenshots of the TrainLine, London North Western Railway, and Cross Country websites that showed this journey being £47.70 for three adults rather than £72.30 and immediately submitted this to Avanti - even though their "Make a Claim" link on their Price Promise guarantee webpage points to an invalid email address, I was able to resend using the correct email address (the link misses the final "s" from relations).

They are taking their time to issue the credit, their first response was a generic email saying they apologise for price rises (which this is not) and they declined the credit. I replied and they have till 7th March (28 days from date of claim) to respond so I am not going to the Rail Ombudsman yet, but I have a similar trip to book on Saturday 19th March and again the Avanti website is quoting £75 whereas the other operators are quoting £49.50 for the same journey.

Does anyone know why the Avanti website appears to deliberately overcharge customers for Group trips when others do not?

Price Promise | Cheap Train Tickets | Avanti West Coast

Our price guarantee promises that you get the cheapest train tickets when you book directly with Avanti West Coast. Find out more online today.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

Train Companies are keen to woo people with very minor things like rewards points or perks, while charging more than would be the case if people had used a retailer such as Trainsplit.

I am not particularly interested in the faff of low value rewards points so I will stick to buying from Trainsplit. Overall, I will save more by avoiding retailers such as Avanti, LNER etc.

It's a really unlevel playing field too; I doubt that what companies like Avanti and LNER are doing is fully compliant with competition and consumer laws but it would be very expensive for anyone to do anything to stop them.

 

[Haywain]

Does anyone know why the Avanti website appears to deliberately overcharge customers for Group trips when others do not?

It's inconsistent in applying the discount, so cock up more than conspiracy. I think you've made an error in claiming under the price promise as that will have specific conditions about the circumstances and timing of your purchase and claim. You should really just be complaining about being overcharged and insisting on being refunded the difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As you can demonstrate that they are not applying the GroupSave discount correctly, I think you should complain and ask to be refunded the difference. A simple screenshot shows the error, stating that the discount is applied when it isn't:View attachment 110983

Ah. That sounds like a defect and yes, the OP should complain. I was of the impression it didn't offer GroupSave at all.

 

[Haywain]

Ah. That sounds like a defect and yes, the OP should complain. I was of the impression it didn't offer GroupSave at all.

I tried searching a test journey from London to Cambridge for 3 people and it applied correctly, whereas for the OP's journey it doesn't, as demonstrated. Curiously, you can select GroupSave in the railcard menu even though you don't need to.