Avondale Coaches

[Tom Gallacher]

Mod note: split from First Glasgow thread

The 42 was popular even when the 1C started to be fair through Garscadden and Polnoon Avenue. It was either really old double deckers or really small single deckers that ended up on it though which I found strange at the time.

I'm surprised First never tried to take Avondale out of business to be fair given they had been much tougher when McGill's and McColls challenged them in the past and also when Mckindless matched some routes. Avondale seem indestructible though given what they operate and the fact services are still well used. Linnvale and Parkhall were lost by First to them too.

Avondale seem to have the type of low cost operation that First could only dream of. It works for them but I don't think it would work for First (even though some of First's buses are older than the oldest bus in Avondale's fleet).

 

[PaulMc7]

Avondale seem to have the type of low cost operation that First could only dream of. It works for them but I don't think it would work for First (even though some of First's buses are older than the oldest bus in Avondale's fleet).

Yeah the Indeed reviews for Avondale give a real insight of how "low cost" it actually is especially with maintenance. It makes First's maintenance look world class even though it's one of the bigger issues in Glasgow.

 

[mb3]

Avondale seem to have the type of low cost operation that First could only dream of. It works for them but I don't think it would work for First (even though some of First's buses are older than the oldest bus in Avondale's fleet).

I live local to the 400 route and I rarely see it with more than 5/10 passengers. How they are still in business, especially with most passengers seeming to be pensioners, is a mystery.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Avondale seem to be very well liked by there customers. it's simliar to what city sprinter had on there 38 before McGill bought them out.

 

[mb3]

Avondale seem to be very well liked by there customers. it's simliar to what city sprinter had on there 38 before McGill bought them out.

It’s a good service by the routes provided however their vehicles really aren’t the safest and you can tell maintenance costs are kept at the bare minimum.

 

[Rgy88]

Avondale seem to be very well liked by there customers. it's simliar to what city sprinter had on there 38 before McGill bought them out.

The concept that made city sprinter (and similar independent 'minibus' operators across other major routes) popular was that:
It was a good bit cheaper, £1.50 to the city centre from Eastwood toll versus £2 with First on their 38
It was a good bit faster than First bus......they seemed to fly into town, although felt a bit dodgy at times
City sprinter ended up going bust and disappeared literally overnight in summer 2015, it was the similar Dickson's 38 Paisley X to Glasgow that Mcgill's bought out, to up their competition with First on the 9 and the then Arriva buses.......they were the same idea with a similar loyalty among customers
Avondale seem to be one of the only 'minibus' operator to survive in Glasgow

 

[Stan Drews]

Avondale seem to be very well liked by there customers. it's simliar to what city sprinter had on there 38 before McGill bought them out.

City Sprinter weren’t bought out by McGill’s, or anyone else!

The death of the City Sprinter: How the wheels came off this Glasgow bus company

When City Sprinter pulled the last of their services in July last year, an investigation was launched to find out exactly what went wrong and why.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk

When City Sprinter pulled the last of their services in July last year, an investigation was launched to find out exactly what went wrong and why.
In July last year, Glasgow bus company City Sprinter unexpectedly withdrew its only service - the number 38.
As well as putting drivers out of work, the company also left many regular passengers out of pocket.
The 38 ran from Eastwood Toll in Giffnock to Glasgow’s Renfrew Street and back again every ten minutes, carrying hundreds of passengers every day and many had paid in advance for weekly and monthly tickets.
But now an investigation by the office of the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland has revealed the extent of the chaos at City Sprinter.

The investigation found that:

• Between May 15 and July 1 2015, the company was “knowingly” operating without insurance cover.
• The lease for a garage the company used had been terminated four months before it withdrew its only service in July last year.

A ruling by the Deputy Traffic Commissioner Richard McFarlane has now been made public. As a result of the deputy commissioner's judgement:

• Two former City Sprinter directors have been banned from holding an operator’s licence for a year and fined almost £5,000.
• The company is prohibited from obtaining a licence for two years.

It was revealed by the Evening Times that the Traffic Commissioner had previously raised concerns about the "lawful operation" of the vehicles as far back as October 2013.
At that time, the commissioner had explained how he was "not satisfied that the statutory criteria for 'appropriate financial standing' had been met." The licence was revoked at that time but the commissioner’s decision was overturned on appeal.

Since then:

• A public enquiry in May 2014 led the commissioner to conclude that City Sprinter was, by then, of appropriate financial standing.
• The firm were ordered to provide bank statements as evidence on a monthly basis.
• When they failed to do so, the commissioner moved to revoke the licence again in May 2015.
• By the end of the month, the bank statements had been provided but another public enquiry was already due to be held on August 3 2015.
• However, an adjournment was secured because bus company director John Paul Healey was said to be “unfit to travel”.
• When the Traffic Commissioner's concerns were not resolved, Police Scotland were contacted and the investigation was launched.
• A spokeswoman for Police Scotland said they were “looking into the operating procedures of the company,” but they later handed the investigation back to the office of the Traffic Commissioner.

 

[Observer]

Avondale seem to have the type of low cost operation that First could only dream of. It works for them but I don't think it would work for First (even though some of First's buses are older than the oldest bus in Avondale's fleet).

Surely they must be the only operator still wanting to buy old Dennis Darts regularly? Must be so cheap to pick up these days.

Yes they have bought the occasional E200 for sale but they haven't been a permanent replacement of the type.

Although they do have a tendency to just buy buses rather than fixing what they have already as mentioned above!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Surely they must be the only operator still wanting to buy old Dennis Darts regularly? Must be so cheap to pick up these days.

Yes they have bought the occasional E200 for sale but they haven't been a permanent replacement of the type.

Although they do have a tendency to just buy buses rather than fixing what they have already as mentioned above!

The 2 Enviros they had went back to Ensign in exchange for more darts. Avondale sure know how to keep themselves going

 

[mb3]

The 2 Enviros they had went back to Ensign in exchange for more darts. Avondale sure know how to keep themselves going

They do. As a regular passenger I am not complaining at how they are still in service, however I do feel as if improvements could be made. Such as better maintenance for their buses, even myself feels as if the bus is about fall apart. So I can’t imagine how 80 year old Doris feels about what she has to go through just to get to Aldi for her shopping.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

The 2 Enviros they had went back to Ensign in exchange for more darts. Avondale sure know how to keep themselves going

The two Enviros were too long for their routes. They're now with Canavan.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

How they survive? There depot is a poky muck hole and there buses are dishevelled whilst drivers are on £10ph, that’s how.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder if the low pay rate see is quite a high turnover in driver's? I would have thought it might be a nice little job for perhaps older drivers who are wanting to slow down a bit or nearly qualified who wants some experience before attempting to go on to to coaches or touring or even apply for one of the big companies, equally good alternative to people who don't necessarily want to go and work for one of the big boys. Although wages might below, they might be good to work for. Does anybody know? In terms of vehicles give me a dart any day over some of the early enviro models.


I think that Nu venture of Maidstone are also still actively buying Dennis darts, weather for spares to keep the existing ones going or simply because they like them I don't know!

 

[Man of Kent]

I think that Nu venture of Maidstone are also still actively buying Dennis darts, weather for spares to keep the existing ones going or simply because they like them I don't know!

Not at all true. There's one Dart MPD left in the fleet, against almost 20 Enviro200s.

 

[LT02 NVV]

The very few Ex-London Esteem Darts still in service with Avondale look really battered and beaten. Take a look at PO56 JFK to see what I mean.

Also, the amount of fumes many of their buses spit out into the air is really concerning too.

 

[scotraildriver]

I wonder if the low pay rate see is quite a high turnover in driver's? I would have thought it might be a nice little job for perhaps older drivers who are wanting to slow down a bit or nearly qualified who wants some experience before attempting to go on to to coaches or touring or even apply for one of the big companies, equally good alternative to people who don't necessarily want to go and work for one of the big boys. Although wages might below, they might be good to work for. Does anybody know? In terms of vehicles give me a dart any day over some of the early enviro models.


I think that Nu venture of Maidstone are also still actively buying Dennis darts, weather for spares to keep the existing ones going or simply because they like them I don't know!

Have a Google of "working for Avondale". I don't think they're good to work for!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Also, the amount of fumes many of their buses spit out into the air is really concerning too.

Is it? Their buses are no more polluting than one of Firsts B7TLs or B7RLEs

 

[LT02 NVV]

Is it? Their buses are no more polluting than one of Firsts B7TLs or B7RLEs

While I have seen First Buses sputter out a lot of fumes before, some Avondales darts are much worse, as I have seen buses in the Avondale fleet sputter out large amounts of black fumes on a few occasions.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

How they survive? There depot is a poky muck hole and there buses are dishevelled whilst drivers are on £10ph, that’s how.

If you think their place is bad you want come with me round a few of my customers in England and Wales. They make Avondale look like a dealership.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Speaking experience, the reason you get people working at smaller firm is because driver don’t have CCTV watching them nor do there management care about one’s driving along cigarette in hand with a radio on, it is generally easier going whilst many smaller firms are Monday to Friday only, wages are lower but for many that’s a well worth sacrifice for being left alone to do the job, again something the biggest just don’t do.

First, Stagecoach & McGill all take a dizzy at these sort of things as well as working all sorts of shifts.

Not that I condone smoking or using a phone at the wheel obviously, the radio sat next to a driver however is a line which seem silly to criticise.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Speaking experience, the reason you get people working at smaller firm is because driver don’t have CCTV watching them nor do there management care about one’s driving along cigarette in hand with a radio on, it is generally easier going whilst many smaller firms are Monday to Friday only, wages are lower but for many that’s a well worth sacrifice for being left alone to do the job, again something the biggest just don’t do.

First, Stagecoach & McGill all take a dizzy at these sort of things as well as working all sorts of shifts.

Not that I condone smoking or using a phone at the wheel obviously, the radio sat next to a driver however is a line which seem silly to criticise.

There's also the issue of the working hours. Many small operators don't run past 6 or 7 o'clock in the evening or work Sundays so some kind of normal family life can be achieved.

 

[LT02 NVV]

Speaking experience, the reason you get people working at smaller firm is because driver don’t have CCTV watching them nor do there management care about one’s driving along cigarette in hand with a radio on, it is generally easier going whilst many smaller firms are Monday to Friday only, wages are lower but for many that’s a well worth sacrifice for being left alone to do the job, again something the biggest just don’t do.

First, Stagecoach & McGill all take a dizzy at these sort of things as well as working all sorts of shifts.

Not that I condone smoking or using a phone at the wheel obviously, the radio sat next to a driver however is a line which seem silly to criticise.

Now that you mentioned that, there has been something like that has happened before with Avondale back in July 1st of 2019, when a driver was caught on his phone while driving the 400:

Glasgow bus driver takes both hands off the wheel while moving

The driver of the 400 bus to Partick is seen travelling at around 10mph down a narrow street in Glasgow. As it approaches the man filming, the driver takes his other hand off the wheel and shouts 'fantastic'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Police are investigating after a bus driver was caught on camera with both hands off the steering wheel while appearing to use a mobile phone as he navigated a narrow street.

The incident happened in Drumchapel, Glasgow on July 1 and involved a vehicle operated by Avondale Coaches.

Incredibly, after the driver realised he had been spotted with what looked like a phone to his ear, he then took his remaining hand off the wheel to give a thumbs up and shouted 'fantastic'.


Footage shows the red 400 bus to Partick travelling at around 10mph down a narrow street filled with parked cars as it approaches the man filming.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Now that you mentioned that, there has been something like that has happened before with Avondale back in July 1st of 2019, when a driver was caught on his phone while driving the 400:

Glasgow bus driver takes both hands off the wheel while moving

The driver of the 400 bus to Partick is seen travelling at around 10mph down a narrow street in Glasgow. As it approaches the man filming, the driver takes his other hand off the wheel and shouts 'fantastic'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What I would say regarding these issues, the management turn a blind eye until the mess hits the fan and it’s blew up on social media and the papers.

The smaller firms like avondales don’t have the volumes of people to catch you at it, unless for example another driver dumps you in it.

 

[Observer]

The very few Ex-London Esteem Darts still in service with Avondale look really battered and beaten. Take a look at PO56 JFK to see what I mean.

Also, the amount of fumes many of their buses spit out into the air is really concerning too.

Plus they're still reusing old roller blinds when they have had quite a good amount of buses where they could have ripped out the screens from them before they got scrapped!

 

[overthewater]

Avondale seem to be very well liked by there customers. it's simliar to what city sprinter had on there 38 before McGill bought them out.

Don't you mean Dickson's? Mcgills brought that 38 out. To be fair that 38 was great, the drivers went for it and there was no messing about.

 

[ScotRail158725]

While I have seen First Buses sputter out a lot of fumes before, some Avondales darts are much worse, as I have seen buses in the Avondale fleet sputter out large amounts of black fumes on a few occasions.

what you see coming out the exhaust and what actually comes out are two different things

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Plus they're still reusing old roller blinds when they have had quite a good amount of buses where they could have ripped out the screens from them before they got scrapped!

Roller blinds are the most cost effective way to display the destination. Another example of how to run a low cost operation at a profit - don't waste good money on fripperies. Electronic displays are fine - until they break down.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Speaking experience, the reason you get people working at smaller firm is because driver don’t have CCTV watching them nor do there management care about one’s driving along cigarette in hand with a radio on, it is generally easier going whilst many smaller firms are Monday to Friday only, wages are lower but for many that’s a well worth sacrifice for being left alone to do the job, again something the biggest just don’t do.

First, Stagecoach & McGill all take a dizzy at these sort of things as well as working all sorts of shifts.

Not that I condone smoking or using a phone at the wheel obviously, the radio sat next to a driver however is a line which seem silly to criticise.

You often find that many of them are "rejects" of the big companies too, i won't go in to specific details but i know of a number of cases where drivers have been sacked from the big operators for some very serious reasons and have then been employed at smaller, independent firms.

I'd imagine the cigarette is probably more the reason they got sacked, there's a driver at First Aberdeen that usually has a small portable radio that can attach to the opening part of the cab window playing and seemingly no one has taken issue, they've done this for as long as i can remember.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

They've fitted a lot more Hanovers to their buses of recent I've noticed, They've got an ex First MPD as well SN55 CXH and it's in pretty good condition.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

They've fitted a lot more Hanovers to their buses of recent I've noticed, They've got an ex First MPD as well SN55 CXH and it's in pretty good condition.

I think their policy is that if the bus has a Hanover display fitted then they let it run with that. However it seems that most of their fleet originates from London operators and they always seem to have roller blinds so they just stick with them. They don't have a hard and fast rule as to which system of passenger information is used.